No gun problem in the US

[Pete F.]

If laws don't stop bad people from getting guns then WHY DID HE WAIT UNTIL THE LITERAL DAY IT WAS LEGAL TO BUY ONE?
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[JohnR]

For the same reason people wait until 21 to use their real ID to buy a beer. And like most laws, people get drunk in bars before 21.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if the democrats want to solve this and have the right ideas, why haven’t biden and the democrats in congress passed those solutions? Who’s stopping them? They run the show. Do you not get that?
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Because laws die at Mitches feet and two democrats will not work to eliminate the filibuster.
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[spence]

Can someone explain to me why so few people die in this country from fully automatic weapons? I'll wait.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Mayors have a checklist (Incident Response Plan) for a bunch of different things, well usually the EMA Director does or the PD Chief / FD Chief depending on purview. That have it for weather, shootings, IT issues, contageous outbreaks (pre-COIVD), and 99 other topics.

But that's not really the Point, I am we aware of disorder management plans or (Incident Response Plan) for a bunch of different things

it's the reason they need the plan to start with .. that should be the concern ..




from this school has guns stashed for teachers 2017

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by spence

Can someone explain to me why so few people die in this country from fully automatic weapons? I'll wait.

I'll take a crack at it you need Federal Firearms License

And

As a private citizen (without an FFL) you can only buy an old machine gun (over 35 years old), it’ll likely cost north of $15,000, and you’ll have to wait around a year for the transfer via an ATF Form 4.

[Raider Ronnie]

As information has been coming out this whole thing sounds fishy.
The kid has a $70K for truck (18 years old)
Owns 2 ARs ($5k)
Body armor, tons of ammunition
WHERE DOES AN 18 year old get this kind of $$$ ?
Supposedly the grandmother worked at the school.
Door unlocked where he entered.

Then they have the police in full body armor standing around for an hr+ doing bothering but hold back kids parents while kids being shot up.

They can talk all they want about gun laws but nothing is ever going to change. It’s big business.
I’m all for gun rights & ownership & have my LYC as do my sons but unlike more gun advocates I say gun laws should be universal federally.
Makes no sense some states are almost impossible to own legally but you can go to another state, walk into Walmart and buy any gun.

[wdmso]

Where are Ron desantis comments on Texas shooting ?

I bet if it happened at Disney or by a Trans man in a women's bathroom he would have a lot to say

some will see it as political brilliance

I see it for what it is political cowardice.. and kowtowing to the far right . Who he thinks will bring him the next president nominee
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Where are Ron desantis comments on Texas shooting ?

I bet if it happened at Disney or by a Trans man in a women's bathroom he would have a lot to say

some will see it as political brilliance

I see it for what it is political cowardice.. and kowtowing to the far right . Who he thinks will bring him the next president nominee
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what, exactly, is political
cowardice wayne? what does desantis have to do with the immediate aftermath of this?

ANY excuse to bash those with whom you disagree. Pathetic. You have no idea what he has said or not said, but you know it’s wrong.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Can someone explain to me why so few people die in this country from fully automatic weapons? I'll wait.

there aren’t 400 million of them already out there

your statement is correct, and is also apples And oranges.

i agree there are too many out there. But they’re out there. And they seriously erode any potential
benefit of prospective gun laws, don’t they?
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Because laws die at Mitches feet and two democrats will not work to eliminate the filibuster.
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Thank god - what a #^&#^&#^&#^&ing disaster we'll have when bad bills - from both parties - can be passed with less resistance.

I was wrong, I though this crew here was smarter than this - even when we disagree.

Originally Posted by spence

Can someone explain to me why so few people die in this country from fully automatic weapons? I'll wait.

I really can't because of the very small amount of 300-400 people that die each year from rifles, they don't break out the automatic rifles from that number. I do know however, that the number of those that die from hammers every year is greater.

Originally Posted by wdmso

I'll take a crack at it you need Federal Firearms License

And

As a private citizen (without an FFL) you can only buy an old machine gun (over 35 years old), it’ll likely cost north of $15,000, and you’ll have to wait around a year for the transfer via an ATF Form 4.

AND pay The TAX

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Because laws die at Mitches feet and two democrats will not work to eliminate the filibuster.
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which now did dems try to pass that mitch killed, which would have prevented this?

after this shooting, senate republicans proposed some
kind of school
safety bill that senate democrats killed. Funny that you didn’t complain about that.

And i agree with you that the gop is too stubborn on gums. Maybe we should have stricter purchase reuirements for the ar-15, tougher background checks or red flag laws? again, there are so many out there that such a law might not do much, but maybe it helps. little. maybe raise the age to 21.

But i don’t see the left doing anything except making political speeches, either

We have to be able to talk about what has been tried already, and whether or not it worked. We need to be able to talk honestly about what works and what doesn’t. Neither side can do that. We elect too many jerks on both sides.

But we need to be able to say out loud, that due to the fact that there are more guns out there right now than people living in the country, prospective gun laws aren’t the only aspect of this. There’s a lot more to it.

You almost never hear democrats discuss anything other than gun control, because that’s the aspect of this that polling shows is a political winner for them. Same with the right and opposing gun control.
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[Pete F.]

There have been 27 school shootings already this year. Firearms are the number one cause of death for kids in this country.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

what, exactly, is political
cowardice wayne? what does desantis have to do with the immediate aftermath of this?

ANY excuse to bash those with whom you disagree. Pathetic. You have no idea what he has said or not said, but you know it’s wrong.
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He has said nothing Jim some leader!
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

He has said nothing Jim some leader!
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i haven’t seen that CT governor Lamont said anything either.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i haven’t seen that CT governor Lamont said anything either.
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Is he trying Hard to be the next POTUS ... Like Ron is

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Is he trying Hard to be the next POTUS ... Like Ron is

if Desantis said anything, you’d call him a pro-gun monster. when he says nothing, he’s a coward.

doesn’t matter what he does, it’s wrong. WE GET IT.
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[Pete F.]

The NRA spent $1.8 million in 2018 to elect Ron DeSantis and Rick Scott.

Ron DeSantis has vowed to sign a “constitutional carry” into law in Florida, allowing people to carry guns in public, either visibly or concealed, virtually anywhere, at any time, without training, registration or government licensing.

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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if Desantis said anything, you’d call him a pro-gun monster. when he says nothing, he’s a coward.

doesn’t matter what he does, it’s wrong. WE GET IT.
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How about a running list of GOP causes of gun violence:

- doors
- evil
- wokeness
- lack of home schooling
- video games
- low church attendance
- secularism
- mental health
- unarmed teachers
- cultural decline

What else?

I presume George Soros is also somehow responsible.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The NRA spent $1.8 million in 2018 to elect Ron DeSantis and Rick Scott.

Ron DeSantis has vowed to sign a “constitutional carry” into law in Florida, allowing people to carry guns in public, either visibly or concealed, virtually anywhere, at any time, without training, registration or government licensing.

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in this case, the deranged killer was in a room full of little kids for almost an hour. He could have killed them all with a pocket knife.

i’m not a big gun guy. But how much good will prospective gun laws be, when there are 400 million guns already out there? we know what happens when places like chicago and DC ban guns. it doesn’t help much.

So gun control is one part of this, but there are many other aspects which the left refuses to discuss, because they aren’t political winners for them,,just as gun control
is something the right avoids.

erosion of families, bullying in school ( which teachers tolerate even though they know exactly who’s doing it), erosion of faith, entertainment industry committed to desensitizing kids to graphic violence, mental health issues, americans getting less connected to each other, spending WAY too much time alone online.

It all feeds this. Neither side will admit to it all.

how many kids become killers, who are from a home ( regardless of income) with 2 parents who are dedicated to their kids and who make it very clear that they love those kids? homes where everyone eats supper together and talks to each other instead of staring at screens all day?


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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if Desantis said anything, you’d call him a pro-gun monster. when he says nothing, he’s a coward.

doesn’t matter what he does, it’s wrong. WE GET IT.
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A leader who wish to be POTUS speak . And Ron doesn’t have an issue speaking on any topic or passing any law that excites his base

Yet 20 American children murdered
And he keeps his mouth shut..

That’s not leadership

https://floridaphoenix.com/2022/05/2...itics-contend/

Gov. Ron DeSantis has not shied away from commenting on national and international controversies. China, Venezuela, our southern border — he’ll opine at great length and ferocity.

About the mass murder this week in Uvalde, Texas — where an 18-year-old shot to death 19 small kids and two teachers — he has uttered not a peep beyond ordering flags at state and local facilities flown at half staff — and it was President Joe Biden’s proclamation.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

in this case, the deranged killer was in a room full of little kids for almost an hour. He could have killed them all with a pocket knife.

i’m not a big gun guy. But how much good will prospective gun laws be, when there are 400 million guns already out there? we know what happens when places like chicago and DC ban guns. it doesn’t help much.

So gun control is one part of this, but there are many other aspects which the left refuses to discuss, because they aren’t political winners for them,,just as gun control
is something the right avoids.

erosion of families, bullying in school ( which teachers tolerate even though they know exactly who’s doing it), erosion of faith, entertainment industry committed to desensitizing kids to graphic violence, mental health issues, americans getting less connected to each other, spending WAY too much time alone online.

It all feeds this. Neither side will admit to it all.

how many kids become killers, who are from a home ( regardless of income) with 2 parents who are dedicated to their kids and who make it very clear that they love those kids? homes where everyone eats supper together and talks to each other instead of staring at screens all day?


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Last week the killer was in a building with one door and this week the cops were so scared of his weapon that they stood in the hall.
Chicago is over a bridge from a state with far looser gun laws and there’s plenty of states with higher gun deaths per capita than Illinois.

AR type firearms went from 400,000 in this country in 2004 when the assault rifle ban, that you claim did nothing, ended to 20 million today.

The US has 393 million guns in circulation (46% of all guns) or 121 firearms for every 100 residents.

Please explain how the remaining 7.4 billion people on the planet can live "FREE" with roughly the same number of guns. Aside from mass shootings, what other freedoms do we get?
I know you’ll miss the sarcasm
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

A leader who wish to be POTUS speak . And Ron doesn’t have an issue speaking on any topic or passing any law that excites his base

Yet 20 American children murdered
And he keeps his mouth shut..

That’s not leadership

https://floridaphoenix.com/2022/05/2...itics-contend/

Gov. Ron DeSantis has not shied away from commenting on national and international controversies. China, Venezuela, our southern border — he’ll opine at great length and ferocity.

About the mass murder this week in Uvalde, Texas — where an 18-year-old shot to death 19 small kids and two teachers — he has uttered not a peep beyond ordering flags at state and local facilities flown at half staff — and it was President Joe Biden’s proclamation.
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i don’t equate leadership with using the deaths of kids to engage in political demagoguery.

you know what he’s going to say, and you’re going to say he’s wrong.

we get it.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Last week the killer was in a building with one door and this week the cops were so scared of his weapon that they stood in the hall.
Chicago is over a bridge from a state with far looser gun laws and there’s plenty of states with higher gun deaths per capita than Illinois.

AR type firearms went from 400,000 in this country in 2004 when the assault rifle ban, that you claim did nothing, ended to 20 million today.

The US has 393 million guns in circulation (46% of all guns) or 121 firearms for every 100 residents.

Please explain how the remaining 7.4 billion people on the planet can live "FREE" with roughly the same number of guns. Aside from mass shootings, what other freedoms do we get?
I know you’ll miss the sarcasm
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pete those countries do t have more guns than people. we do. your facts are correct. and they are precisely why prospective gun laws won’t do
much

All you have to do, is look at places that enacted very strict gun laws, and see what the effects were.

the cops weren’t afraid as a group. you’re lying. you’re muting about this massacre if
kids, to attempt to win a political
argument.

The commander incorrectly decided it was not an active shooter, and followed the barricaded entrant protocol.

If you have evidence that cops stayed out because they were ll o sated, let’s see it.

if you don’t, then shame on you .
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[JohnR]

It's interesting, take out the cities here and europe and compare and that stats are pretty much the same rate.

But according to Pete, Republicans are the problem.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

pete those countries do t have more guns than people. we do. your facts are correct. and they are precisely why prospective gun laws won’t do
much

All you have to do, is look at places that enacted very strict gun laws, and see what the effects were.

the cops weren’t afraid as a group. you’re lying. you’re muting about this massacre if
kids, to attempt to win a political
argument.

The commander incorrectly decided it was not an active shooter, and followed the barricaded entrant protocol.

If you have evidence that cops stayed out because they were ll o sated, let’s see it.

if you don’t, then shame on you .
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You always believe the party line.

Change is not impossible and there’s no simple magic law, it’s going to be a long hard slog to get us out of the place we are in with all the play soldiers.

We are seeing lots of changes to the story given by officers, as they coordinate their stories.
Take every one with a grain of salt. ANY statement from police departments that uses the passive voice ("projectile impact responsible for death of man near officer-involved incident") is an attempt to hide something, if not an outright lie, and media often publish them verbatim.

Every department has training that acknowledges danger. This does not mean there is an obligation to take risks.

A common instruction around precincts is "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

Which is to say, a cop should murder someone before taking risks.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You always believe the party line.

Change is not impossible and there’s no simple magic law, it’s going to be a long hard slog to get us out of the place we are in with all the play soldiers.

We are seeing lots of changes to the story given by officers, as they coordinate their stories.
Take every one with a grain of salt. ANY statement from police departments that uses the passive voice ("projectile impact responsible for death of man near officer-involved incident") is an attempt to hide something, if not an outright lie, and media often publish them verbatim.

Every department has training that acknowledges danger. This does not mean there is an obligation to take risks.

A common instruction around precincts is "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

Which is to say, a cop should murder someone before taking risks.
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so it’s a party line, and not objective fact, to say strict gun laws havent done much to reduce violence in DC and Chicago?

Change is not impossible. But it will
take more than new gun control
laws.
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[Pete F.]

A fraud on the American public.” That’s how former Chief Justice Warren Burger described the idea that the Second Amendment gives an unfettered individual right to a gun. When he spoke these words to PBS in 1990, the rock-ribbed conservative appointed by Richard Nixon was expressing the longtime consensus of historians and judges across the political spectrum.

Twenty-five years later, Burger’s view seems as quaint as a powdered wig. Not only is an individual right to a firearm widely accepted, but increasingly states are also passing laws to legalize carrying weapons on streets, in parks, in bars—even in churches.
Many are startled to learn that the U.S. Supreme Court didn’t rule that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual’s right to own a gun until 2008, when District of Columbia v. Heller struck down the capital’s law effectively banning handguns in the home. In fact, every other time the court had ruled previously, it had ruled otherwise. Why such a head-snapping turnaround? Don’t look for answers in dusty law books or the arcane reaches of theory.

So how does legal change happen in America? We’ve seen some remarkably successful drives in recent years—think of the push for marriage equality, or to undo campaign finance laws. Law students might be taught that the court is moved by powerhouse legal arguments or subtle shifts in doctrine. The National Rifle Association’s long crusade to bring its interpretation of the Constitution into the mainstream teaches a different lesson: Constitutional change is the product of public argument and political maneuvering. The pro-gun movement may have started with scholarship, but then it targeted public opinion and shifted the organs of government. By the time the issue reached the Supreme Court, the desired new doctrine fell like a ripe apple from a tree.
The Second Amendment consists of just one sentence: “A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today, scholars debate its bizarre comma placement, trying to make sense of the various clauses, and politicians routinely declare themselves to be its “strong supporters.” But in the grand sweep of American history, this sentence has never been among the most prominent constitutional provisions. In fact, for two centuries it was largely ignored.

The amendment grew out of the political tumult surrounding the drafting of the Constitution, which was done in secret by a group of mostly young men, many of whom had served together in the Continental Army. Having seen the chaos and mob violence that followed the Revolution, these “Federalists” feared the consequences of a weak central authority. They produced a charter that shifted power—at the time in the hands of the states—to a new national government.

“Anti-Federalists” opposed this new Constitution. The foes worried, among other things, that the new government would establish a “standing army” of professional soldiers and would disarm the 13 state militias, made up of part-time citizen-soldiers and revered as bulwarks against tyranny. These militias were the product of a world of civic duty and governmental compulsion utterly alien to us today. Every white man age 16 to 60 was enrolled. He was actually required to own—and bring—a musket or other military weapon.

On June 8, 1789, James Madison—an ardent Federalist who had won election to Congress only after agreeing to push for changes to the newly ratified Constitution—proposed 17 amendments on topics ranging from the size of congressional districts to legislative pay to the right to religious freedom. One addressed the “well regulated militia” and the right “to keep and bear arms.” We don’t really know what he meant by it. At the time, Americans expected to be able to own guns, a legacy of English common law and rights. But the overwhelming use of the phrase “bear arms” in those days referred to military activities.

There is not a single word about an individual’s right to a gun for self-defense or recreation in Madison’s notes from the Constitutional Convention. Nor was it mentioned, with a few scattered exceptions, in the records of the ratification debates in the states. Nor did the U.S. House of Representatives discuss the topic as it marked up the Bill of Rights. In fact, the original version passed by the House included a conscientious objector provision. “A well regulated militia,” it explained, “composed of the body of the people, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but no one religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.”

Though state militias eventually dissolved, for two centuries we had guns (plenty!) and we had gun laws in towns and states, governing everything from where gunpowder could be stored to who could carry a weapon—and courts overwhelmingly upheld these restrictions. Gun rights and gun control were seen as going hand in hand. Four times between 1876 and 1939, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to rule that the Second Amendment protected individual gun ownership outside the context of a militia. As the Tennessee Supreme Court put it in 1840, “A man in the pursuit of deer, elk, and buffaloes might carry his rifle every day for forty years, and yet it would never be said of him that he had borne arms; much less could it be said that a private citizen bears arms because he has a dirk or pistol concealed under his clothes, or a spear in a cane.”
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[Jim in CT]

Pete, has anyone said the 2A is unlimited or unfettered? Who are you responding to?

Are gun control laws working in Chicago, DC?

Instead of going off on unrelated tangents, why not discuss something right at the heart of this?
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i don’t equate leadership with using the deaths of kids to engage in political demagoguery.

you know what he’s going to say, and you’re going to say he’s wrong.

we get it.
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I question if you even understand what is and what’s isn’t good leadership

Owning the libs isn’t leadership neither is silence during a national tragedy


So to criticize those who willingly sit on their hands when it comes to attempting to reduce gun violence. Yet your party is all about making it easier to by a gun than use an absentee ballot. Or more laws to protect the unborn

No one is using the deaths of kids to engage in political demagoguery.

They are just telling the truth
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