ASMFC Striped bass board winter meeting minutes

[sokinwet]

Well maybe all rec's aren't lying BS'ers....but I bet everyone on here knows some that are!! ;-)

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

Well maybe all rec's aren't lying BS'ers....but I bet everyone on here knows some that are!! ;-)

Haha... very true.

Like the ol' proverb says: "Believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see." So all of this is only academic anyway, because I don't believe anything that any of you are saying - even the people I agree with.

[MAKAI]

Man don't you guys ever get tired.
When action has to taken, probably when it's most grim.
Money and votes will decide who the players will be.
Because our government does such a bang up job in everything they touch, we will all be happy again.

[Sashamy]

No actually if it is a comm day and u get checked they don't ask what you intend to do with your fish, they just make sure they are of size and that you have not exceeded your limit. I do though really find it to be a stretch to think that a mlot of guys are bringing these fish home to eat, but if they did weigh and record them than what is the problem? Guys with fluke licenses do it all the time...Simply put this whole bill was started by SF and M Patrick as a power grab, they attacked an industry that is done with a rod and reel not a net for their own personal gain and in my opinion that is not the way to get any mgt of a fishery done.

Secondly there has been a lot of accusations about greedy fishermen...Whether we are talking about stripers or cod yu have to know that we fishermen can only what NMFS/ASMFC allows us to catch, so why would a fisherman not complain about restrictions? It does make him greedy it makes him a business man like any other business owner. We all complain about taxes and regulation changes in any business...NMFS is too blame for allowing the raping of most species not the fisherman himself.

[sokinwet]

Speaking of "Patrick" has anyone seen his latest? Now he's going after the tuna with another bill! Yea...let's have MA manage the international pelagic fisheries.....someone needs to tell him MA waters extend to 3 mi......then dope slap him a few times!!

H764 An Act relative to conserving bluefin tuna.

Summary:
Creates a commission to study the existing bluefin tuna fishery and the interaction of commercial and recreational bluefin fisheries, to promote the viability and restore the population of the species, to examine the economic and biological impacts of various fishing techniques, and analyze historical data of bluefin taken in Massachusetts waters.

The Public Hearing is scheduled tomorrow Wednesday @ Noon before the Joint Committee on Natural Resources.

[Sashamy]

No it is Kocot not Patrick...but from the 1st Hampshire District??????? Why?????????

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

Secondly there has been a lot of accusations about greedy fishermen...Whether we are talking about stripers or cod yu have to know that we fishermen can only what NMFS/ASMFC allows us to catch, so why would a fisherman not complain about restrictions? It does make him greedy it makes him a business man like any other business owner. We all complain about taxes and regulation changes in any business...NMFS is too blame for allowing the raping of most species not the fisherman himself.

NMFS is just bowing to the pressure put on them by fisherman. NMFS may to guity of not doing their job but it is being caused by fisherman. What is this big fisherman march RFA and other groups are doing down in Washington all about. It's to put pressure on ASMFC and NMFS, not in the interest of fish, but to protect jobs by slowing down recovery time lines. Fisherman are the number one group to blame and then comes ASMFC and NMFS for bending to fisherman pressure.

[sokinwet]

My bad...shouldn't have posted without all the facts; I picked this up 3rd hand from a post by a knowledgable guy fighting the good fight re: tuna. Nevertheless...a good dope slap for 2 seems in order.

Sashamy...you don't seem busy today...think I'll go "offshore" and stir up the "baby killer" pot! Care to join me......just kidding...I have enough enemies for now!

[sokinwet]

"NMFS is just bowing to the pressure put on them by fisherman. NMFS may to guity of not doing their job but it is being caused by fisherman. What is this big fisherman march RFA and other groups are doing down in Washington all about. It's to put pressure on ASMFC and NMFS, not in the interest of fish, but to protect jobs by slowing down recovery time lines. Fisherman are the number one group to blame and then comes ASMFC and NMFS for bending to fisherman pressure."

[jmac]

Those fisheries managers making "informed" decisions have already allowed the stocks to completely crash once.

To paraphrase something Makai said in an earlier post, "The regulators won't act until their hand is forced." By then, it'll be too late.

The fisheries managers did not let the stocks crash once...The stocks have "crashed" throughout history, i.e., the turn of the 19 century (plenty of history on the Cuttyhunk, Newport, Sakonnett bass stands empty and dilapidated because of the lack of fish).....

I believe what you refer to is the late 70's, early 80's. There was only one regulation then around here (to the best of my memory)...16" minimum length (I believe the limit was 12" for the Chesapeake netters back then)...otherwise no other regulations (bag limit,etc).
ASMFC started managing stripers because of the lack of fish then, and because of all the work we did back then (COMMERCIAL AND REC-I know, I was there at the mtgs as a R&R commercial) to get rules and regs to safeguard the fish.
Regarding ASMFC, as quoted from the ASMFC website-
"The Commission has managed striped bass since 1981. Amendment 6 to the Fishery Management Plan provides the current guidance to the states from Maine through North Carolina."
That is why I believe that any precipitous drop in the biomass will never reach the point it did back then; too many safeguards are in place.

[Sashamy]

The march is being sponsored by the Recreational Fishing Alliance...and it has come about mostly to oppose any no fishing zones...mpa's...that will hinder recreational use of the area....Right Pat Kirkill(spelling) is really bowing to the pressure with these new sectors they set up in the new ammendment to the New England groundfishery...bending so much that 8000 small boats wil be out of business and NMFS will only have to manage million dollar corporations and their boats....u forget that Gloucester, Plymouth, Green harbor are made up of mostly small boat commercial fisheries, while New Bedford has the million dollar bottom wreckers....

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by jmac

That is why I believe that any precipitous drop in the biomass will never reach the point it did back then; too many safeguards are in place.

If the ASMFC worked objectively and the science was better you would be correct.

But the ASMFC includes many people with agendas. There is no democratic representation, to reflect actual numbers of people using the resource (and no valid way to create such since the fish eating public deserves some level of representation), and most importantly the whole purpose of the ASMFC is to ensure maximal sustainable utilization of the resource, which they take to mean maximal yield of dead fish.

Hence, the ASMFC is always pushing the limit to kill more fish. Since the science is inexact, and their is substantial pressure from those with a financial stake in the species, the ASMFC errs on the side "seeing the best case scenario".

When people with this mindset become convinced something can "never" happen, you can be damn sure it not only can, but is made more likely by a false sense of security.

The real issue is that species abundance (and quality sized fish) is the goal of most recreational fishermen. It is not, however, the goal of the ASMFC (their goal is maximal safe utilization). I don't think it is that big a goal for most commercial fisherman either (An easy supply of fish drives down price and allows less skilled fisherman compete successfully with them).

That, I think, is where the recreational/commercial divide begins. We want lots of large fish so we can catch them easily and feel good about ourselves, they're happy with a more restricted (but sustained) population to keep prices up and competition down.

The current management system may very well ensure the species is not wiped out, but it also may ensure that the species is kept at a population level/size distribution that leaves the largest user group frustrated and angry. That does not represent sound fishery management.

[MarshCappa]

Man i need a nap after slogging through these 4 pages. Sad thing is, I still don't know what is going on!

[Sashamy]

If you had your way the bass would eat its way out of house and home! There has to be some advocation for killing these fish...

[WoodyCT]

and up until now that has been the commercial lobby because it has the funds to donate to reelection campaigns. In the past recs had virtually no voice while commercials stuffed pockets and packed meetings to ensure that the gravy train kept rolling.

It is only very recently that a somewhat strong and vocal recreational voice is beginning to be heard up and down the coast, and that voice is SF. After watching the first crash and moratorium folks decided never again was too soon and began spreading their message- preserve sportfishing for bass by making it a game fish throughout its range. Some states have done so, others have not, nor has the federal government gone so far.

I can't blame SF for being fed up with the status quo, who isn't!, and reaching for the ultimate protective measure- gamefish status.

However, I believe that if managed properly the stock can support a thriving recreational fishery, and all the related economic injections it brings, as well as a tightly controlled and strictly monitored commercial fishery.

Comms want all the fish so they can earn a living. Recs want all the fish so they are protected and can be enjoyed. Eventually compromise will be reached and the bass can be shared.

It appears that the threat of a resource grab by SF is just the thing to get everyones attention and begin some meaningful dialogue as we are doing here.

[intrepid24]

I want to say that I do not appreciate the reference toward comm. guys poaching. If one is doing something against the rules/law, they are in their own category, please do not stereotype this activity as comm. objectivity is warranted here.

[Sashamy]

Dude dude dude woody woodrow woodski...we already have compromise that works its called a quota! get off the shrooms dude..sf doesn't represent any of my recreational friends infact they hate them and they don't even commercial fish...they represent an elitest bunch of retired doctors, lawyers and socialites that want to flyfish in the penobscot river...they do not represent the interests of the every day joe who want toi go out and take a couple fish home for dinner...again I will say it that is the rec interest group attacking a group that has never brought anything to light about how many bass get killed recreationally each year....STOP drinking the Koolaid...

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

...they represent an elitest bunch of retired doctors, lawyers and socialites that want to flyfish in the penobscot river...they do not represent the interests of the every day joe who want toi go out and take a couple fish home for dinner...again I will say it that is the rec interest group attacking a group that has never brought anything to light about how many bass get killed recreationally each year....STOP drinking the Koolaid...

This may be some what true of the group that started Stripers Forever but it is not a true statement today. SF has a much broader base of fisherman. Most groups start as a radical fringe but as they grow they attrack a larger group that moderates their actions. Read the history on the formation of Ducks Unlimited. Not saying that SF will ever become DU, but much of what you say about SF is the attacks made on DU in their earlier years.

I thought RFA might be the answer but IMO they are not. To much influence from the boat manufactures.

[MAKAI]

Wasn't it an elitist bunch of agenda driven wealthy earthy crunchies that got the ball rolling for bird closures.
How's that working out for the rest of us.
The more we bitch like a bunch of entitled spoiled 3 year olds, the more we weaken our commonality.
We are nothing more than a divided angry mob.
The proverbial Ship of Fools.

[trapperpierre]

...FYI, the striped bass crash at the turn of the 19th century..coincided with a serious menhaden fishery up & down the Atlantic coast. The advent of large steam power fishing vessels with large, effective, purse seines, were employed in large numbers. On shore menhaden processing facilities were tucked into just about every cove-some large..many medium and small. Perhaps they contributed to the bass population reductions during this time period.

Yes, the multiple use of our natural resources is the honorable use of our natural resources. For food, and for recreation. The striped bass fishery of today supports both commercial and recreational activities. Of all commercial gear groupings, Hook and line commercial fisheries has the lease amount of negative inpact on the echo system. So called "save the fish organizations" directing their resource grab at this group of commercial bassers.....while ignoring the huge catches of the rec/charter group is very short sided-and very selfish.

Again, with coastal mangement plans in place for maintaining the striped bass in viable numbers both for Recreational/charter and commercial interest, the striped bass IS NOT in danger.

Tackle & boating manufacturers still have a devoted striped bass customer base to procure their wares. Fishing publications have a large readership. Fish processing, wholesaling, & retail have an excellent food product made available to the fish eating consumer. All creating and fostering respective economic engines that provide jobs for us.

Multiple use is the only fair and equatible means to share the striped bass natural resource. And, there is nothing wrong with sharing.............

[MakoMike]

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE TO THE POPULATION IF TEN GUYS TAKE THE COMMERCIAL QUOTA OR 1,000 GUYS TAKE THE SAME QUOTA? sorry for the caps. If you guys really think the ASMFC is going to let the population crash again, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in purchasing.

[jmac]

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE TO THE POPULATION IF TEN GUYS TAKE THE COMMERCIAL QUOTA OR 1,000 GUYS TAKE THE SAME QUOTA? sorry for the caps. If you guys really think the ASMFC is going to let the population crash again, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in purchasing.

Thanks.....thats the bridge with the pogies under it, isn't it?........hmmmmmm..

[MAKAI]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE TO THE POPULATION IF TEN GUYS TAKE THE COMMERCIAL QUOTA OR 1,000 GUYS TAKE THE SAME QUOTA? sorry for the caps. If you guys really think the ASMFC is going to let the population crash again, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in purchasing.

I think the point may be that a thousand pissed off guys will have no problem with ten pissed off guys. The rec bashing may awaken a sleeping giant.
In the end it's gonna come down to who wants it more, the many or the few.

Really, are there not more important things to want to someone over ?

I can make a long list before I get to a Fish.

[trapperpierre]

............mutiple use............peace bro

[WoodyCT]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

Dude dude dude woody woodrow woodski...we already have compromise that works its called a quota! get off the shrooms dude..sf doesn't represent any of my recreational friends infact they hate them and they don't even commercial fish...they represent an elitest bunch of retired doctors, lawyers and socialites that want to flyfish in the penobscot river...they do not represent the interests of the every day joe who want toi go out and take a couple fish home for dinner...again I will say it that is the rec interest group attacking a group that has never brought anything to light about how many bass get killed recreationally each year....STOP drinking the Koolaid...

Pehaps you should try someone else's Kool-Aid. Yours appears to have fermented. Dude.

[WoodyCT]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE TO THE POPULATION IF TEN GUYS TAKE THE COMMERCIAL QUOTA OR 1,000 GUYS TAKE THE SAME QUOTA? sorry for the caps. If you guys really think the ASMFC is going to let the population crash again, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in purchasing.

That's the best part- Lower the quota since 990 recremmerials will no longer be fishing on the striper stocks. Leaves more fish to spawn.

[sokinwet]

3 ?'s
-Do you realize the quota is based on the # of fish....not the # of fishermen my math challenged friend?
- Does recremmercial mean sells fish.......and has fun doing it?
- Was wondering...what's that CT stand for?

[WoodyCT]

ASMFC bases quota on the number of fish so that maximum catch possible without crashing the stock will occur. Problem is there are many factors they don't include in calculating quota, and even more that are affecting spawning success and recruitment of juveniles that they have no way to factor into their calculations. Why can't you guys leave more than the bare minimum spawning stock biomass swimming and spawning?

Recremmercial- A recreational fisherman who calls himself a commercial fisherman since he has a license to take and sell stripers. As opposed to one who earns his living as a full time commercial fisherman. 'Having fun' is justification for depleting a resource owned by all, not to mention eating up quota true commercials could use to support their families?

Wondering if you know how to spell Soaking Wet?

[sokinwet]

Well I sure do know how to spell "Sokinwet"...it's spelled out right on my commercial permit and on the back of my boat...the one that's registered in MA.

[WoodyCT]

The abbreviation for Connecticut.

Don't take any of what I have posted personally guys (S&S). My targets are any and all enemies of healthy bass stocks ;

the unsound management models of the ASMFC,
inneffective NMFS/USCG fisheries enforcement programs,
industrial menhaden seiners,
farmers using unsound fertilizing practices,
livestock operations allowing underprocessed animal waste to contaminate the Chesapeake,
rogue gillnetters,
EEZ poaching rec or charter boats,
biased DMF leaders,
unscrupulous recs who violate bag limits or size regs,
and, yes, recremmercial striper fishermen in MA.