This "Is" the Place - 2012

[johnny ducketts]

Those macs, are awesome, I'm so pissed I'm missin the fest this year.

[Muskyslayer96]

Morning guys,

Thought I would get things started this morning...I know I posted this last night, but I'm trying to get the most out of the Lucky 13 design made for larger predator fish.
6.25 inches, 1 3/8" diameter, plan on through wire with treble @ 2.5" back from front of lower lip. Dressed tail hook. Top lip set back a little from lower lip and I cupped the mouth a little

I would like it to chug a little, WTD a little (even if its under the surface)and dig a little...I know tall order any suggestions?
If I use a center line tie, I should be able to tune it up or down to change the action? Also thinking of weighting it between the belly hook and tail hook. I'm thinking If I can get it to sit in the water like a spook (tail down) it may be able to chug/pop and if you reel faster the lower lip will dig and get it to dive a littl/
First experience with this type of build...I realize may not be able to get everything, but the original Luck 13 was very productive lure for bass and such.
I hope the building season is going well for everyone,
Best MS

[Rowhunter]

MS, I think right now you still have too many variables. I'd seal that baby up and use it as as tester to find out what all those options can do for this particular piece. Most Lucky 13's I've seen have the line tie set high to let it dig, I would think that mounting it low with rear weighting might give you a surface skimmer. Also a large cupped popper mouth with a dressed tail hook will certainly put the brakes on any WTD. Be flexible on the front hook mount location as well as it's position will also have a lot to do with it's ultimate action.

Douglas

[Muskyslayer96]

Douglass,

Will do, thanks for the tips, and I agree with the too many variables. Also thanks again for the help last week, it's very much appreciated.
I was looking for more of a surface "chug" like a dying fish, and then a subsurface swim, so the high line tie and dressed tail hook make more sense.

MS

[Sgt Striper]

Morning everyone! Had a super time yesterday at SurfDay. What a great show it was. Spent some quality time talking with Gary S, Don Musso, Roy Curley, Don G. Also John Jr's plugs were amazing, paint and finish was flawless!! A GRS below from Gary and a large Nike Jr. for him. Funniest thing was guy's were trying to buy the Nike from Gary, geez talk about clueless

[Sgt Striper]

And, Gary brought me 2 Surf Darters for reference. I will get all the measurements and post them up so we can start the build challenge! He also had his proto of a Pike Darter which is based on this plug, interesting

[Sgt Striper]

Take a look at Creek Chubs fix for the original Surf Darter which was a turd in the pic's below. They just pulled the wire back into plug, drilled down from the top and added grommet and hook hanger for a line tie!

[pbadad]

Morning all. Nice stuff Sgt. That darter proto looks interesting. going to work on big water hardwood needles and I might do a few mini gibbs slopehead swimmers. I got one from a friend who collects minis. The lip is 3/4 wide. I have to see if CC/NJ has one . My smallest is 13/16 danny style. I could refabricate if neccessary. Heres a story: rummaging thru my scrap chair rungs I come across these chaur back rungs that have the spitting image as is of a Conrad. You see I have Conrads on the brain lately since this is my niche turning. I needed a change of scenery. The wood type is either maple or birch. I can't seem to distinquish. It's hard but so is the soft maple I use and the rock maple for baseball bats. It sands SMOOTH like them all. I know Pichney used hardwoods and pines for these denisons of the deep. I cut up the rungs for future turnings. Down to the dungeon I go. Talk to all later. Hope to meet you all @ PLUGFEST. I will have maple and ash bat pieces for any who want some. They need to be cut for plug use.

[Mojo7]

Hey guys I've been struggling with the epoxy finishing. I'm using e-tex lite and use childrens medicine syringes to measure accurate parts of each part. I also read about adding 10 drops or so of acetone which I tried yesterday. I've built a turner that turns at 6 rpm and heats to 90-95 degrees. The trouble I've been having is dimpling and a bumpy finish. When I apply the epoxy it seems to be pretty thick and drags a bit. Should I add more acetone to thin it out a bit? I've tried putting both bottles in warm water for 10 minutes before mixing and spin the plugs in the turner for 20 minutes to warm them up. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong? Thanks, Mark

[Slipknot]

blow on them, sometimes that gets rid of bubbles, if not, try a light flame but be careful

90 dgrees seems plenty warm, 80 should be fine

sometimes when mixing, it introduces air bubbles, they go away with either your hot breathe, a heatgun/hairdryer or a flame.

try that

[Muskyslayer96]

Mojo,
Hit your plugs with a coat of spray clear enamel and let dry, then heat the plugs in your drying wheel before you epoxy, this should cut down considerably on the drag. It will also keep the dimpling down (caused by oils from your hands). After I hit the plug with the spray clear I don't touch them again without powder free gloves I don't thin my e-tex so I can't comment on that, but if you use it after you mix you should have plenty of open time.
Go to HF and invest in a $10 heat gun. If the e-tex starts to thicken up too much hit it lightly with the heat gun on low, that will let you finish the plug your on. As soon as you finish adding the e-tex to a plug hit it lightly a couple of times with the heat gun on low (don't get too close), this will get it glass clear with no bubbles.
Sorry to get long winded, I've almost stroked out at times with anger at the epoxy step.
Good luck,

MS

[pbadad]

One note, medical syinges are made w/silicone base material. A no no for epoxy. Causes headaches with fish eye and adhesion. pick up rod epoxy syringes.

[Muskyslayer96]

"One note, medical syinges are made w/silicone base material. A no no for epoxy. Causes headaches with fish eye and adhesion. pick up rod epoxy syringes."

Great point..... guess how I know just buying syringes at the local farm co-op won't work

MS

[Mojo7]

Originally Posted by pbadad

One note, medical syinges are made w/silicone base material. A no no for epoxy. Causes headaches with fish eye and adhesion. pick up rod epoxy syringes.

The entire syringe that I have is made from hard plastic even the plunger. Is the plastic itself made from silicone?
Thanks, Mark

[Mojo7]

Originally Posted by Muskyslayer96

Mojo,
Hit your plugs with a coat of spray clear enamel and let dry, then heat the plugs in your drying wheel before you epoxy, this should cut down considerably on the drag. It will also keep the dimpling down (caused by oils from your hands). After I hit the plug with the spray clear I don't touch them again without powder free gloves I don't thin my e-tex so I can't comment on that, but if you use it after you mix you should have plenty of open time.
Go to HF and invest in a $10 heat gun. If the e-tex starts to thicken up too much hit it lightly with the heat gun on low, that will let you finish the plug your on. As soon as you finish adding the e-tex to a plug hit it lightly a couple of times with the heat gun on low (don't get too close), this will get it glass clear with no bubbles.
Sorry to get long winded, I've almost stroked out at times with anger at the epoxy step.
Good luck,

MS

MS,
Thanks for the info. I have a heat gun so I'll try heating them once I'm done. I just went out into my shop and brought my can of clear spray in to warm up and I'll hit the plugs I have ready now for epoxy and let them dry overnight and try epoxying again tomorrow.

Thanks for the help guys, Mark

[Muskyslayer96]

You bet Mojo...best of luck.

If you didn't get your syringes from a rod building supply site, I;d not risk it...they are cheap I get mine from Mudhole.

Let me know how the clear spray and heat gun work out

MS

[pbadad]

I would try not thinning the e-tex. You thin flexcoatfor rods w/acetone but I never thinned with acetone. try using a foam brush.then heat gun after. I use a clear laquer spray b/4 epoxy. let it dry overnight then coat. i use gloves too.

[Mojo7]

I just cleared 8 plugs. I'll let them dry overnight and epoxy tomorrow after work. I let you guys know how I make out. Thanks

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by Mojo7

Hey guys I've been struggling with the epoxy finishing. I'm using e-tex lite and use childrens medicine syringes to measure accurate parts of each part. I also read about adding 10 drops or so of acetone which I tried yesterday. I've built a turner that turns at 6 rpm and heats to 90-95 degrees. The trouble I've been having is dimpling and a bumpy finish. When I apply the epoxy it seems to be pretty thick and drags a bit. Should I add more acetone to thin it out a bit? I've tried putting both bottles in warm water for 10 minutes before mixing and spin the plugs in the turner for 20 minutes to warm them up. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong? Thanks, Mark

using E-Tex is truely one of those things that apply to the K.I.S.S. theory.....forget the syringe.... they are messy and cause more problems than they solve...there is no need to add anything to it... working in small batches of warm epoxy keeps it flowing just fine...

here is what after alot of trial and error i use and have done for hundreds and hundreds of plugs without a problem.. NOT ONE...

First...after paint has cured for 24 hours... clear /scratch coat your plugs...I prefer lacquer and I apply it over any and all water based paints, including Createx.. and never an issue( provided you dont touch the plug or bang them together until the lacquer dries)with lacquer over the base paint( acrylic enamel)I would recomend testing on one "scrapper" for compatibility..what this does is seal the paint.. be sure to hit the end grain as well.. wood once was a living orginisim.. even in death it breaths.. when you heat the wood ( plug in the spinner) air trapped in the wood expands and is released from the pores in the wood( even in sealed wood).. the less dense the wood .. the more you tend to have this problem .. this adds to the gassing issue in the e-tex.. the epoxy will naturaly exhaust itself...it's the released air from the plug that causes the bubbling around the eyes, gromets( end grain in their own right) and end of the plugs... on occasion you will have multiple bubbles from in one spot.. this is the plug releasing the air from a large pore... sealing the paint seems to end this problem...

First warm the epoxy...( I use the bulbs inside my spinner, but a pan with hot water to soak the containers in works as well) to 70-75 degrees... mix your epoxy ( e-tex) in small batches... I use a plastic tea spoon for measureing... 3 teaspoons of hardener .. 3 teaspoons of resin.... adding the resin to the hardener seems to make a better mix( I also read it in the West system epoxy directions )I use the container electrical tape comes in as I add each tea spoon I use a round ended splint to scrape the fluid from the spoon so each spoon full is accurate...when you begin the mix.. mix in both directions.. being sure to scrape the sides... once the mixture is clear and no longer cloudy you will see it begin to gass freely.. it is ready to use.... when i apply th epoxy... i use a acid brush ( 5/16 ) I secure the bristles by adding a bead of super glue around the edges where the bristles meet the handle.. this keeps stray hairs off of the plug.. i start at the head of the plug.. as the plug spins.. i apply a heavy coat around the entire plug( head end).. carefully working the epoxy towards the tail.. I keep adding epoxy floating a fairly thick coat... as i reach the 1/3 point( towards the rear) I now go back and move a "wave" of epoxy evenly from the head thinning the actualy ammount left on the plug until I reach just beyond the 1/3 point... i reload and continue the rest of the plug in this manner... you can work much quicker with this method and end up with a better finnish because you are floating a layer of epoxy rather than constantly dragging a thin layer of differant thicknesses... when you reach the end of the plug, as you "pull" epoxy off of the tail, the excess can be wiped into your container.. this method alows enough epoxy for 6: 8" plugs or 10 -12: 6" plugs.... it's fast the epoxy is starting to get hard to work just about the time you are half way through the last plug.. but not to the point of detriment..

[Mojo7]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

using E-Tex is truely one of those things that apply to the K.I.S.S. theory.....forget the syringe.... they are messy and cause more problems than they solve...there is no need to add anything to it... working in small batches of warm epoxy keeps it flowing just fine...

here is what after alot of trial and error i use and have done for hundreds and hundreds of plugs without a problem.. NOT ONE...

First...after paint has cured for 24 hours... clear /scratch coat your plugs...I prefer lacquer and I apply it over any and all water based paints, including Createx.. and never an issue( provided you dont touch the plug or bang them together until the lacquer dries)with lacquer over the base paint( acrylic enamel)I would recomend testing on one "scrapper" for compatibility..what this does is seal the paint.. be sure to hit the end grain as well.. wood once was a living orginisim.. even in death it breaths.. when you heat the wood ( plug in the spinner) air trapped in the wood expands and is released from the pores in the wood( even in sealed wood).. the less dense the wood .. the more you tend to have this problem .. this adds to the gassing issue in the e-tex.. the epoxy will naturaly exhaust itself...it's the released air from the plug that causes the bubbling around the eyes, gromets( end grain in their own right) and end of the plugs... on occasion you will have multiple bubbles from in one spot.. this is the plug releasing the air from a large pore... sealing the paint seems to end this problem...

First warm the epoxy...( I use the bulbs inside my spinner, but a pan with hot water to soak the containers in works as well) to 70-75 degrees... mix your epoxy ( e-tex) in small batches... I use a plastic tea spoon for measureing... 3 teaspoons of hardener .. 3 teaspoons of resin.... adding the resin to the hardener seems to make a better mix( I also read it in the West system epoxy directions )I use the container electrical tape comes in as I add each tea spoon I use a round ended splint to scrape the fluid from the spoon so each spoon full is accurate...when you begin the mix.. mix in both directions.. being sure to scrape the sides... once the mixture is clear and no longer cloudy you will see it begin to gass freely.. it is ready to use.... when i apply th epoxy... i use a acid brush ( 5/16 ) I secure the bristles by adding a bead of super glue around the edges where the bristles meet the handle.. this keeps stray hairs off of the plug.. i start at the head of the plug.. as the plug spins.. i apply a heavy coat around the entire plug( head end).. carefully working the epoxy towards the tail.. I keep adding epoxy floating a fairly thick coat... as i reach the 1/3 point( towards the rear) I now go back and move a "wave" of epoxy evenly from the head thinning the actualy ammount left on the plug until I reach just beyond the 1/3 point... i reload and continue the rest of the plug in this manner... you can work much quicker with this method and end up with a better finnish because you are floating a layer of epoxy rather than constantly dragging a thin layer of differant thicknesses... when you reach the end of the plug, as you "pull" epoxy off of the tail, the excess can be wiped into your container.. this method alows enough epoxy for 6: 8" plugs or 10 -12: 6" plugs.... it's fast the epoxy is starting to get hard to work just about the time you are half way through the last plug.. but not to the point of detriment..

Very informative post I'll try this procedure. Thanks, Mark

[Mojo7]

Thanks guys I just finished epoxying some plugs using the methods you guys posted. They are in the dryer now and they look much better and the application went much better. Thanks, Mark

[Sgt Striper]

Originally Posted by Sgt Striper

And, Gary brought me 2 Surf Darters for reference. I will get all the measurements and post them up so we can start the build challenge! He also had his proto of a Pike Darter which is based on this plug, interesting

Here are the measurements I took, If you can't decipher my chicken scratch let me know.
Also did a 8.5" Nike Jr., first proto I did swam very well with a little darting action mixed in.

[Muskyslayer96]

SS,

Cool darter, no weight though? Love the color of the nike!!

MS

[Sgt Striper]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

yes... through trial and error I finally got one to do what I wanted with a tail weight( wlike the original)... I've got several on my bench in need of final paint... hopefully for plugfest...

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

no sir.. WRC... I've tried them out of everything reasonable.. best results were with WRC.. the original was White cedar..they scrapped it when there was a WC shortage so they could continue to make more lucrative plugs like the Pikie...

Originally Posted by Muskyslayer96

SS,

Cool darter, no weight though? Love the color of the nike!!

MS

As Rock said they are tailweighted, how much??? Would be nice to have a beater to cut apart but remember the orig. did not swim that great so it's going to take some time with weight placement as Rockfish did to get what you want out of it.
Here's a pic of a GRS proto Pike darter that Gary has been fooling with for some time. Had my hands on it this past weekend and I like the idea.

[Rockfish9]

My original swam like crap too... I ended up usuing around 6 grams of weight for the tail( as i recall with WRC).. if you notice.. the original uses 5/0 hooks.. I believe they did that to get the nose down.. the tail weight was also used as a means to get it to cast "way out" as they put it in the book... if i used the 5/0 I didnt need any chin weight.. with 4/0 they wanted to flip over.. predictable when you look at the shape of the plug... chin weighting and no tail weight would probaly make a better swimmer.. but for now, i want to try and make the original theme work.. after i fish it this summer, I'll make the needed adjsutments to suit my situation..

[ProfessorM]

You will get a little darter action with the Nikes. What makes it so special
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sgt Striper]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

You will get a little darter action with the Nikes. What makes it so special
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Paul, I have not noticed it much with the original size ones, but with the larger it is more apparent. And yes it is sweet!

[Muskyslayer96]

Hey guys,

Man I love the looks of that C.C Surf Darter....I'm thinking of giving it a go....So from Rockfish's input..5/0 treble and give it some chin weight to start with........ang tail weight right off the bat? I would be using WRC, pine, or poplar, unless maple would be better. Casting distance is not an issue for us landlovers
can someone give me some input on the difference in action between these and the typical darters i see posted/ I know darters seem to be the plug everyone fears to build.

Thanks,

Best,

MS

[Sgt Striper]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

no sir.. WRC... I've tried them out of everything reasonable.. best results were with WRC.. the original was White cedar..they scrapped it when there was a WC shortage so they could continue to make more lucrative plugs like the Pikie...

Mike, I'm going to try AYC, NWC on a large one, and maybe basswood.
We really need to get Numby, Paul and any of the other darter guys in on this!

[Ryan560]

Couldn't make it to plugfest,but I finished this stuff up last night. Gonna test them out today. The needles are all floaters, except for the green one with purple around the eye that's a slow sinker. Looking forward to seeing some plugfest pictures