Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass

[SAUERKRAUT]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

***lighting match, stand back BEGIN FLAME ***

You comm guys with "the quota is the quota no matter how fast we take them" mentality make me laugh. Why not take them all in one day then? Unlimited? 3/d is not enough, 10/d is not enough, you guys said 30/d is really not enough, 50 is a minimum you would like per day...But no, you need to get yours as fast and as many as possible befor the next guy can catch his...jezz... to me this spells personal greed. (Not to mention 14" comm fluke is a HOAX as well )

If you dropped it to something like 3 fish/day the $/lb would be even higher, the season would be more than just a few weeks and the fish would be taken over a much larger area, more people would be involved over a longer period . What we have now is 60+ boats working an area the size of a football field hard for 10+ hours a day putting a big dent in a local fish population leving next to nothing after the season is over. Also I think it would reduce the pressure on the bunker that get up this way. If you just need to get 3 fish, you don't need to go net a 1000 to put a 300 dead bunker in the water every other day to do it. Heck if you are any good, you can catch 3 fish with no bait. If you need 30+ fish, you need a lot of bait on board. (BTW what is RI's daily limit? )

Heck, forget this bogus R&R bass fishery all together, if the "quota" is the be all and end all, then if they just made the draggers sell the bycatch (instead of dumping it overboard dead unreported) they could meet the easily meet the quota ALONE without ANY R&R comm fishing. The money the state would SAVE from not having to give the juicy (and mostly bogus)tax write-offs to the comm R&R's (who we all know fish recreational with the gear they are writing off with, also I would suspect there is a little fibbing going one with regard to write offs as we all know fishermen tend to lie a bit) would more than make up for any loss due to loss of no SB lic fees. Moreover the charter guys should be counted under commercial, they are a commercial operation, they are getting paid to catch bass, that is commercial bass fishing.




Most comm R&Rer's just don't see the the beauty of the SB and don't think of it as a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch, not to remove at some bogus maximum yield theory for the benefit of a few. It is just something to catch and sell to them. Most comm guys are doing to this to write off their equipment (boat fuel slip gear, etc) and put a few bucks in their pocket. Why should the public be forced to subsidize your hobby? End this farce once and for all. shut it down.

GAMEFISH IS COMING
***burn baby burn, END FLAME***

The striped bass commercial fishery is a disgrace...it is a disgrace of the democratic principle of will and benefit of the majority, and the idea of a public resource protected for the greatest good of the greatest number. The commercial fishery is a disgrace of management, enforcement, and the reluctant compliance of its participants... to which I refer to the Buyers, the Counters, the Middlemen of all levels, as well as the R&R suppliers. Kill this commercial fishery.

[CowHunter]

People also have the misconeption that every single person with a com license is doing 30 fish every single day...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[sokinwet]

Lets just say that fishing the haba exclusively if they cut it to ten a day the Cape guys might be a little more impacted than me! When CCB goes off I always cringe and start planning my days with a little more urgency!

[CowHunter]

Intherapy, gonna be drifting and dreamin' the sat and sun... We passed on today, no point with this front...need a 60!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Goose]

sup K

[intrepid24]

just 2 cents here, i know how lousy the inshore fishing has been these last couple years. I honestly do not believe that it is because of the amount of fish com's or recs are taking, or that it is because their #'s are getting low. I believe that these fish have adapted to their surroundings, meaning because of a general lack of enough forage inshore to hold large bodies of fish, they have been surviving on sand eels, ocean herring, whiting, macks etc. in the vast areas of cold water offshore, where we would never expect them to be.

[trapperpierre]

...and......the well respected Marine Explorer.....Jacques Cousteau was not a big fan of recreational sport fishing....his views on food fish(i.e. striped bass) is a necessary supplier of needed protein......with a sucessful and sustainable fish management program-which is in place under the auspices of ASMFC......and..what is on the horizon is not good news for all involved in the multiple use striped bass resource........MPAs and other fishing restricted zones for the Atlantic coast...possible closures of major onshore, near shore. and offshore areas that are currently being utilized by both recreational and commercial fishing interests....not to mention enviro/animal rights groups waiting in the wings to pull the plug on all uses...............

[big jay]

Farm raised fish taste like chit....

[jmac]

<<Most comm R&Rer's just don't see the the beauty of the SB and don't think of it as a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch, not to remove at some bogus maximum yield theory for the benefit of a few. It is just something to catch and sell to them>>

I resent that statement....I have been fishing for striped bass for close to 40 years, (commercially);I have fished recreationally during that time for bass (when commercial seasons are closed), because I love to fish, i.e., on the water at sunrise, fresh air, exercise, etc. I LOVE everything about bass fishing....and if I can make a legal, supplemental income off of that, to give a person who does not have access to that resource the right to walk into a seafood market or restaurant, have a bass fillet to eat, just adds to the whole experience. After all, it is "a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch". Suffice it to say, you said it in your own words.....Its a shared resource for all.

I, and others like me, abided by the moratorium of the early 80's; we knew that it was needed for the health of the fishery. We also knew the plan would work, and the bass would recover, and that quota's would be devised based on historical catch records for individual states. That has come to fruition. The bass are a recoverd species...with up and down cycles that have been recorded since records have been kept.

As an aside, I attend various marine fisheries mtgs, public hearings, advisory panels, and I am so appreciative of the scientists and biologists of our state agencies to work to solve all the various problems that are involved with marine fisheries. These people for the most part are smart, dedicated people. They do care.... the tools of their science (data modeling, sampling, computer-aided tools, on the water analysis/dragging) are constantly being utilized....It's a shame that they sometimes get a bad rap by people who don't take the time to get to know them...

[sokinwet]

We'll I'll apologize if the tone of my posts went over the line, but....Jenn as far as removing my name, I'm not afraid to put my name behind my position and I prefer to let those insulting me know who they are talking to.

[Brian L]

Yeah... Damn those ba**tard Franklin guys!

I'm enjoying a delicious piece of Haddock. I'm thankful for the comm guy who caught it and got it to market.

[CowHunter]

This tread is still smokin! Virginia beach was good to me, won the ASA Nationals today! Did a live realease with the fish. Can't believe 40 won it, there were three fifties caught just yesterday....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[intrepid24]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

This tread is still smokin! Virginia beach was good to me, won the ASA Nationals today! Did a live realease with the fish. Can't believe 40 won it, there were three fifties caught just yesterday....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

congrats, ken...you deserve it ! impressive.

[Sea Dangles]

How many boats?

[Brian L]

We could always feed them to the criminally insane, I suppose...

[trapperpierre]

.....and......to all you plug nuts out there......going back almost 30 years .I have in varied quanities....original Danny Plugs(both surface-all sizes & deep divers-large) crafted by the master Danny P in critical colors..along with original Gag Grabbers needles-some screw eyed hooks-others thru wire(pink, lime & olive green& black)including the shorter models & a sprinkling of his mini models-some jointed ones..and first generation Super Strikes needles........most new in original packages.....not to mention several Boones.........and boxes of "used' plugs of the above that caught many stripers...many of them sold......and doing so...enjoyed the activity bass fishing second to none..........

Now..I hope I have everyones attention........
.........
..............."Called striped bass, striper, rockfish, bass or just plain fish. Stripers They are colorful, spirited, majestic, worshipped, eaten and sold. Fished pursued by commercial interests ranging from sport fishing magazine publishers to trap fisherman, pursued in earnest by charter/guide operations, by recreation anglers ranging from executives to vagrants lucky enough to possess a fishing rod and a few plugs.

Stripers. Totally adapted be eons of evolution and natural selection to effectively swim in surf, estuary, river, coastal pond, bay, sound, and ocean.

Striper. Prestigous, honored, loved."

Striper. Delicious, nutritious, a commodity and source of cash.

Striper. Providing pleasure to pursuing them from the surf, shore or upon the waters.................."

.......all users groups are intertwined with the many values the striped bass provides........

share the resource.......................................... .................................................. ......................protect our continued access to our favorite fish..............

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by trapperpierre

.....and......to all you plug nuts out there......going back almost 30 years .I have in varied quanities....original Danny Plugs(both surface-all sizes & deep divers-large) crafted by the master Danny P in critical colors.........and first generation Super Strikes needles........most new in original packages...........and boxes of "used' plugs of the above ....

NOW we're talking something important! Are those superstrike needles wood?

As an aside, this thread http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...interview.html has a link to a PDF where Coleman interviewed Pichney and they discuss the same issues that have arisen on this thread. Good read. History repeats.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

As an aside, this thread http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...interview.html has a link to a PDF where Coleman interviewed Pichney and they discuss the same issues that have arisen on this thread. Good read. History repeats.

I noticed there's an advertisement in there for eels at .70 per pound too...

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

I noticed there's an advertisement in there for eels at .70 per pound too...

Heathen

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by numbskull

NOW we're talking something important! Are those superstrike needles wood?

As an aside, this thread http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...interview.html has a link to a PDF where Coleman interviewed Pichney and they discuss the same issues that have arisen on this thread. Good read. History repeats.

This winter one of the things I want to do is find the article from the fisherman around the same time as the pichney one that expresses regrets over livelining bunker and mowing off the bass population.
Of course then we can debate if the collapse of the striped bass population was due to overfishing or a natural cycle. Was the collapse at the time of the closing of the Island striped bass clubs (1900) also due to recreational overfishing, commercial overfishing or just a natural population change to prevent disease and starvation from overpopulation?
I can't count creatures living under the ocean but we can and have quantified rabbit, partridge and other small animal populations and see that they go in population cycles depending on a number of factors. Hunting animals can reduce population collapses due to overpopulation. Think about it, if you have enough food for 1000 animals to survive, how many survive if you put 2000 in the same space. It's not 1000.
The only thing I am sure of is that I do not know the answer, and I do not think there is a simple one.

[stripermaineiac]

well put. I've been watchin this thread for a couple days now an about everything has been mentioned. Fact is the number of stripers is on a serious decline. So wether an commercial or a sportfisherman we all need to back away from the trough an look what needs to be done for the fish, Not who gets what quota,who's at fault or to blame. we need to pull our heads out of our perspective posteriors an pressure the poleticians to slow things down before we are back in the 70,s again.Like my old freind Bob Pond used to preach. Only we can fix what we break. Greed an selfishness do nothing but hurt us all. Nice thing to help PETA with it's devide an conquer tactics. Damn are we dumb sometimes.
I love spending a night out with my secon wife a large female striped bass. Love sharing it with freinds also. Same as you commercial guys do when not chasing stripers for that new motor or SUV or those sportfishermen that spend hrs playin the blame game, We all love and enjoy fishing wether it be Striper or trout fishing so lets all do a bit to fix things before it get too far gone to fix, my thought Ron

[CowHunter]

Trapperpierre is good people...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[nightfighter]

I would like to see the slot size a little higher... like 28-34

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

I would like to see the slot size a little higher... like 28-34

That size slot is smack dab in the middle of the fish they are trying to protect. The 20-26" fish are going to have a much higher number of males -v - the almost exclusive only females in the 28-34 (really anything over 28). Protecting classes of fish in the 28-39" range is going to keep a lot more breeders open and available.

[nightfighter]

So what exactly causes such a drastic decline (read extinction) of the male species upon reaching the magical 28" length???? Always wondered that. (Do the females torture their males as much as humans do????)
And as for that slot I mentioned, it is because I get a little more jazz when the fish is say 34" as opposed to a low twenty inch fish, that's all....

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

So what exactly causes such a drastic decline (read extinction) of the male species upon reaching the magical 28" length???? Always wondered that. (Do the females torture their males as much as humans do????)
And as for that slot I mentioned, it is because I get a little more jazz when the fish is say 34" as opposed to a low twenty inch fish, that's all....

Figured

Why is the life expectancy for women 8 years more than men? How many licks to the center of a...

Don't know. The males don't get very big, the females do. Nearly every fish caught over 20#s is a she.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That size slot is smack dab in the middle of the fish they are trying to protect. The 20-26" fish are going to have a much higher number of males -v - the almost exclusive only females in the 28-34 (really anything over 28). Protecting classes of fish in the 28-39" range is going to keep a lot more breeders open and available.

Here's the thinking behind a slot as I understand it and its based on some Ted Williams(not the baseball player, the writer) penned articles I've read.

The lower size on a slot limit allows meat fishers to reach their intended goal easier, which is to kill a fish to eat without having to sift through and release a bunch of sub legal fish in order to cull out a keeper. Williams cites lower fish mortality due to a decrease in bycatch mortality which comes from fewer fish being hooked. This is particularly true with charter operations who mostly get paid to put fish on the dock. Culling must occur under this scenario.
Lowering the daily bag to one fish makes excellent sense as the charter operators now can legallly take up to 28 fish per day all season if they desire. A one fish per day limit would cut this number to 14.

Implementing a 28"-40" slot allows for breeder fish to reproduce several times before being legal to harvest. Right now we hit them just as they are reaching thier spawning ability at 28".

I like the proposed plan as I believe the commercial striped bass fishery in Mass is a total farce. Although I've sold my share of fish over the years and still posess a license, its really just gas money most people are using the dead fish for, plain and simple.

I would, however, be entirely against a "no keep" law, which may eventually arise from this process. Keeping one for the table should always be a part of the equation.

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That size slot is smack dab in the middle of the fish they are trying to protect. The 20-26" fish are going to have a much higher number of males -v - the almost exclusive only females in the 28-34 (really anything over 28). Protecting classes of fish in the 28-39" range is going to keep a lot more breeders open and available.

John, that does proect the fish you're suggesting we protect

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Canalman

John, that does proect the fish you're suggesting we protect

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

Righth there with ya. Look at the year classes though, this would protect the 2001 class which was the biggest ever recorded.

-Dave