MSBA Action Alert--Stripers Forever Bill Could Pass- Only One Hearing--This Thursday

[BassDawg]

i just read everything that ALL of you said~~~
well put, some self-servingness, mostly passionate!

it ocurrs to me that "gamefish" status needs to be more clearly defined, since it seems to vary state-to-state. while i am for a comm moratorium, i believe that their 10% should be completely removed from the take quota so it does not become a fish grab. i also would support a reduction in the recreational take by at the least 75% of what it is currently allowed by ASFMC. very simply, 1 Striper @ 36" per day. 1/day would get you 50% less of a rec take, the 36" would (i'm guessing) be good for somewheres close to 25% more, roughly? this would be more of a compromise from both sides of the fishery killing machines and would certainly ease some pressure on our precious stocks.

lastly, i agree with Pat that thankfully SF was shut down. peer based science is most definitely the way to go with regard to ASBass. yet, this ALL seems moot if we DO NOT address the contingent issues that are most definitely intertwined within the intricacies of our marine resources. for me and my tax dollars spent, we should do ALL of the following:

1)FIX THE FORAGE: a ten year moratorium on ACMenhaden, period!!

2)FIX THE BAYS: the estaurine and spawning grounds pollution of the Hudson, Chesapeake, and the Outer Banks Stocks has led to, imho, the single most egregious waste/kill/depletion of our beloved species and on a much broader spectrum than science can EVEN MEASURE right now. as i understand from what i've read, it is impossible to generate the numbers/science that can give us an accurrate assessment of the horrific levels of damage that has been wrought by the big money interests(golfing, fertalizing, PCB'ers) and Industrial Greeds(Poultry, Pork, Purse Seiners) attached to this worsening plight on the species AND their spawning domains.

3)FIX OUR TUDES: as has been said, and i wholeheartedly AGREE, if we cannot reach mutally agreed upon limits and guidelines for the betterment of the Striped Bass' biomass moving forward, then we are falling into the well placed snares of these multi-lateral conservationists groups that WILL NOT stop at limiting our kill.

if we place our joint concerns and financial interests towards the advancement of a healthy and viable American Striped Bass fishery, then perhaps we could actually walk away from these boards with a legacy that does not echo our ignorant past, that promotes proactive conservationary actions for our future, and a proud legacy that reflects an attitude of change towards our resources and species as cohabitants to this God Blessed and God Given beauty that truly is The Striper Coast. in my view, it behooves us ~exponentially so~ to do NO LESS than to reasonably sacrifice what we deem is OURS simply because we are the dominant species.

how's about ONCE, just once, we GIVE something back to Nature(the surf) and something back to Beast(the stripah, bunkahs) at the unconscionable~ at least by today's standards ~ benefit to BOTH!!! is it even possible for us to get out of our own greedy, self-proliferating way at this point of "civilization". or has capitalism and the industrialization of America done enough, YET??!! what will it take for us to change our attitudes towards our resources,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a collapse in our environment, ice caps melting, completely unviable estuaries??

something clearly has to GIVE, and we seem to be the only entity capable of doing so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the bigger questions lie in the WHEN, HOW, and the WILL WE, change???

[Sashamy]

Right BD that would be great in a world where the streets were paved with gold, but they are not! People make their livings utilizing the SB and until science proves that we are overfishing this stock than nothing needs to be done...however we do not disagree on all points the forage issue does need to be addressed, but again your attitude albeit positive, is not realistic...there will never be a 10 year moratorium on a fish that for the past 100 years has lived in cycles that scientists can not explain...by reducing the catch the way u see it we will putting a lot more fish back into the sysytem...probably not we will mostly create a population of skinny bass again...malfeasian economics says it best populations will control themselve with war famine and disease...the striper is best left alone to its own devices right now....we need to clean the environment that they spawn in..thats what brought them back in the 90's not only the 36" size requirement.

Doug

[Nebe]

I'd love a full blown moratorium... What better way to give the fish a chance to recover to what it was like 10 years ago.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sashamy]

so we need to recover these fish again?

[nightfighter]

I truly am of the opinion that it is about the bait. Or the lack thereof.

Locally, if I can fish live pogies, I am almost certain to be able to find fish large enough to take them whole. After the seiners come into the harbors and wipe out those schools of bait, the bass are gone within a week, using pogies or not.

The local surffishing has been on a serious downswing up here for a few years. But if you go out to Stellwagen, just 15 miles away, there are many large bass. Forty and fifty pounders are taken pretty regularly on the troll. Are they aware they are in the EEZ???? Or are they there for the ample buffet available to them?

I have participated in the Martha's Vineyard Derby for the past two years. A week each year. One fish, my first albie in year one. Two albies and a bluefish this past year. What bait we saw was what the albies were on. Really didn't feel I had a shot at a bass from shore. The numbers were down. But I am of the opinion that they just weren't there. But they may well have been somewhere else where bait was more plentiful.

Last June we had probably our most productive trip to Cutthunk in the seven or so years we have been going over there. Was it the moon, the tides, or what? I figure I have run or been on twelve trips to Cuttyhunk with S-B members, with an average of 14 guys on each trip. That's a lot of wood, eels and tin that we've pitched into the night. What did we do different this time? Beats me. Personally, I had four good fish back to back in a half hour period around 2AM. And then nada. They just happened to be there when I was casting as I was making my way back to the club.

The past year was a good one for me from the boat. If I have live bait, I can go toe to toe with any of the local comms, and they know it. I am not for taking away the commercial limit at all. It is a drop in the bucket. The numbers put up by Cowhunter and Sashamy are what should be more alarming here.(ie. the number of charters keeping two fish per man per day, as allowed by the current law) It is indicative of what the rec take could be. I just can't see the need for a two fish per person per day, and would be all for going back to a one fish per day. This would establish a reasonable starting point for those of us who wish to truly be conservators of the resource.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Last June we had probably our most productive trip to Cutthunk in the seven or so years we have been going over there. Was it the moon, the tides, or what? I figure I have run or been on twelve trips to Cuttyhunk with S-B members, with an average of 14 guys on each trip. That's a lot of wood, eels and tin that we've pitched into the night. What did we do different this time? Beats me. Personally, I had four good fish back to back in a half hour period around 2AM. And then nada. They just happened to be there when I was casting as I was making my way back to the club.

The answer to Cuttyhunk is living there or luck.
And thats that.

[JFigliuolo]

Reading the pages here, I hate to even post... but wth?

1. The hypocricy(sp) of charter boat skippers saying there's a problem with charters killing so many fish is astounding. Do you even read your posts?

2. The SF bill was a fish grab. Pure and simple.

3. Rec's kill way too many fish. We (on this site) travel in a small circle as we release way more than we kill. Such is not the case with most rec's I'd wager (see point 1).

4. Cutting the limit from 2-28 to 1 - 28 would NOT cut the kill by 50% as I'd wager most surf casters keep 1 at a time. It's a PIA lugging 2 fish around. It's a step in the right direction.

5. Fish are following the bait offshore, but is this new? or have a population of fish always done this? Is this population growing or are the coastal fish just dwindling.

6. Saying the fish are there... you just have to WORK harder for them is actually saying that there ARE less fish. (What part of this don't you get) I highly doubt that coastal populations are congrating into fewer bigger schools.

7. People are greedy and people suck.

[JohnR]

JFig for President

In a nutshell, everyone needs to take less, release more, and protect the bait.

Meanwhile we run around in circles.

[dannyplug1]

I agree with don there should be a 36" limit one fish coast wise. I dont care how the figures are manipulated by special intersts, I know the bass population is going down and most likley crashing in the next five years. I have seen the number of small fish go down every year. Meanwhile I have not taken a fish in a very long time. I have quit fishing live bait and am extreemly carefull with the fish I release. Then I go to westport when the commercial bass season opens and watch the commercials come back from Cuttyhunk loaded to the gills with large prime breeding fish. Dont ask me to disbelieve my own eyes. In regard tothe mas bill being dead. For now possibly, the special intrests win but the mass of the people eventually forces the issue in a democracy. Make stripers a game fish!

[Sashamy]

I just would like to know without sounding stuck up...have you guys really not caught any fish in the last ten years? Have you seen a problem that is fish number related or bait related? I would testify more bait related...I will gladly take any of you who do not get offshore much, starting in may and show you schools of bass with no less than 500 to 1000 fish in each school, that you can see for miles from cape cod bay all the way to the northwest corner....the fish are fine, they have changed their patterns because of lack of food on the beach, they used to follow the herring...well as we all know the runs are not what they used to be...so they in turn follow the squid and mackerel and sand eels...where are they? offshore...sad but true..the eez(which I don't fish) is full of healthy spawing big female bass and they are there all summer from PH to the bank and east and lets not get started bout the rips off Nantucket and crab ledge...the BB Buoy the fish are fine we just need to stop the herring boats and manage the dogfish to heathy levels....Doug

[Nebe]

Yup yup.... Sounds good to me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[seabuggy]

Some of the posters are right, the fish are here for everyone. No one group has the inside track on the taking of SB. Commercial guys say they have an historic right to a commercial season. They abide by the rules set forth and take thier 1.1 m pounds. The stocks are better for this effort. The consumer that buys and eats this fish have rights too. Without a commercial quota the markets would not have product. Recreational guys that I know personally are also getting thier share, If they know how. I do however, have a problem with the writers of the proposed bill banning the sale of SB. If anyone in thier right mind ever read this study, they would disregard it immediatly. It speaks to job loss and losses to tourism and such. It is the biggest farce related to fishing that I have ever seen. You do not have to go beyond the sponsers list to see what is going on. The Mass DMF is doing thier job, Let them do it and leave the fish to all groups as it is now.

[Sashamy]

Do you really think that charter captains and commercial fisherman want to catch the last fish? Is it wrong dannyplug that there is a regulated season on 34" fish...but yet you promote a 36" coastal limit? Will that not have the same ramifications...still killing breeding fish which seems to be your big problem with the retention of the fish for consumption. No Danny you just have a problem with the commercial fisherman/charter boat industry...do you think its easy? To go catch 12 for a charter or 30 to sell...I get paid for both but the same pressure to catch fish is there. It is not automatically July12 so 30 fish jump in your boat every day...and then the secret black market opens up???so none of these fish get counted...or the guy who goes out and brings home thirty to eat...come on guys get off the drugs...the season last 26 days, it catches 65000 fish, those are solid numbers...show me the rec numbers....U CAN"T cuz they are a guesstimate...there is no hypocrisy about me talking about the number of bass killed by a charterboat...those fish belong to the public...they contract me to take them out to get their share of the resource. You and a few others would like it if we were all Orvis endorsed guides and we brought people out to maybe catch a couple fish a day with a noodle rod...but guess what stripers taste good and those folks whom aren't as lucky to have a screen name like dannyplug like to eat them. Sorry to rant but you guys are older gents that fished and killed thousands of juvenile bass...for what? oh yeah to pay for your trips to the beach...

The plight of the buffalo someone else brought up...apples and oranges...first of all that was a time period when ther was no government agencies protecting wildlife, secondly buffalo are mammals they reproduce at rate that is not even comparable to a fish that lays millions of eggs at one time...but what we can compare is the processes of natural selection...the weather...rainfall...run-off also contribute to the success of these creatures ability to survive and reproduce...

I applaud you gentlemen for your thinking, but I am a little worried about your lack of compromise...why punish and continue to persecute the sector of the fishery that is hook and line? highly regulated? and done by a panel of your peers? anyone can get a license it is not a special interest group...just my two cents... Doug

[dannyplug1]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

Do you really think that charter captains and commercial fisherman want to catch the last fish? Is it wrong dannyplug that there is a regulated season on 34" fish...but yet you promote a 36" coastal limit? Will that not have the same ramifications...still killing breeding fish which seems to be your big problem with the retention of the fish for consumption. No Danny you just have a problem with the commercial fisherman/charter boat industry...do you think its easy? To go catch 12 for a charter or 30 to sell...I get paid for both but the same pressure to catch fish is there. It is not automatically July12 so 30 fish jump in your boat every day...and then the secret black market opens up???so none of these fish get counted...or the guy who goes out and brings home thirty to eat...come on guys get off the drugs...the season last 26 days, it catches 65000 fish, those are solid numbers...show me the rec numbers....U CAN"T cuz they are a guesstimate...there is no hypocrisy about me talking about the number of bass killed by a charterboat...those fish belong to the public...they contract me to take them out to get their share of the resource. You and a few others would like it if we were all Orvis endorsed guides and we brought people out to maybe catch a couple fish a day with a noodle rod...but guess what stripers taste good and those folks whom aren't as lucky to have a screen name like dannyplug like to eat them. Sorry to rant but you guys are older gents that fished and killed thousands of juvenile bass...for what? oh yeah to pay for your trips to the beach...

The plight of the buffalo someone else brought up...apples and oranges...first of all that was a time period when ther was no government agencies protecting wildlife, secondly buffalo are mammals they reproduce at rate that is not even comparable to a fish that lays millions of eggs at one time...but what we can compare is the processes of natural selection...the weather...rainfall...run-off also contribute to the success of these creatures ability to survive and reproduce...

I applaud you gentlemen for your thinking, but I am a little worried about your lack of compromise...why punish and continue to persecute the sector of the fishery that is hook and line? highly regulated? and done by a panel of your peers? anyone can get a license it is not a special interest group...just my two cents... Doug

Your right I detest commercial fishermen too many times I have been at sakonnet point and watched dead shorts be thrown into the harbor. Never mind the local rumor that shorts are being secretly trucked to canada for sale. And yes I do think with modern technology it is not as difficult to decimate bass. Commercials and charter captains are farr more effective than they were in past years. All I know is that I wont catch as many bass as cowhunter shows in the picture with his posting in ten years of surf fishing. Furthurmore I will let all of them go. Dead FISH I Dead Fish. Like Lee Wulf said a game fish is too precious to be used once. With that being said I would be in favor of a total moritorium.

[intrepid24]

Originally Posted by dannyplug1

I agree with don there should be a 36" limit one fish coast wise. I dont care how the figures are manipulated by special intersts, I know the bass population is going down and most likley crashing in the next five years. I have seen the number of small fish go down every year. Meanwhile I have not taken a fish in a very long time. I have quit fishing live bait and am extreemly carefull with the fish I release. Then I go to westport when the commercial bass season opens and watch the commercials come back from Cuttyhunk loaded to the gills with large prime breeding fish. Dont ask me to disbelieve my own eyes. In regard tothe mas bill being dead. For now possibly, the special intrests win but the mass of the people eventually forces the issue in a democracy. Make stripers a game fish!

not sure what yur position is, could ya repeat it one more time, please ?

Originally Posted by dannyplug1

Your right I detest commercial fishermen too many times I have been at sakonnet point and watched dead shorts be thrown into the harbor. Never mind the local rumor that shorts are being secretly trucked to canada for sale. And yes I do think with modern technology it is not as difficult to decimate bass. Commercials and charter captains are farr more effective than they were in past years. All I know is that I wont catch as many bass as cowhunter shows in the picture with his posting in ten years of surf fishing. Furthurmore I will let all of them go. Dead FISH I Dead Fish. Like Lee Wulf said a game fish is too precious to be used once. With that being said I would be in favor of a total moritorium.

[inTHERAPY]

Originally Posted by dannyplug1

Your right I detest commercial fishermen too many times I have been at sakonnet point and watched dead shorts be thrown into the harbor. Never mind the local rumor that shorts are being secretly trucked to canada for sale. And yes I do think with modern technology it is not as difficult to decimate bass. Commercials and charter captains are farr more effective than they were in past years. All I know is that I wont catch as many bass as cowhunter shows in the picture with his posting in ten years of surf fishing. Furthurmore I will let all of them go. Dead FISH I Dead Fish. Like Lee Wulf said a game fish is too precious to be used once. With that being said I would be in favor of a total moritorium.

Moratorium on what exactly? Fishing for bass, killing bass, selling bass? All of which is such a great idea. 99% of "us" on this board could spend more time with our families on land, we could save more money, we could get more sleep, we could take up another hobby, we could use less fossil fuel, we could kill less bait, BRILLIANT!

[maddmatt]

this is my favorite thread EVER!

ok,

steel cage grudge match

nebe, dannyplug and bassdawg

vs

sashamy, cowhunter and me

the winner gets to decide something

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

The plight of the buffalo someone else brought up...apples and oranges...first of all that was a time period when ther was no government agencies protecting wildlife, secondly buffalo are mammals they reproduce at rate that is not even comparable to a fish that lays millions of eggs at one time...but what we can compare is the processes of natural selection...the weather...rainfall...run-off also contribute to the success of these creatures ability to survive and reproduce...

uh well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Doug, that "someone" was me. and my reference to the complete and utter decimation of a particular species was made to show how The Age of Industry, Westward Expansion, and good-old fashioned American Greed (the comm trappers were paid quite handsomely) led to the anihilation of one of God's resources. imho, these beasts and their existences have been intertwined with the American Striper, and the Atlantic Coast Menhaden since Creation. i beleive that God gave the Plains Indians the Buffalo for food/clothing/shelter/tools, and that he gave to the Narragansetts/Mohegans/Sachems/Algonquins the Bunker for a natural fertilizer and the Striper for food among other species and plants. the plentifulness alone of them before the "whiteman" came along and destroyed each of them, with no regard for them as a partner in Life nor Environment, speaks most loudly to the level of ignorance and neglect that this country has always had towards its "neighbors".

quite simply, Doug~~~~~

just because there is no law against what havoc we wreak on environment and species,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that does not equate to the justification of our abhorent behavior. do you think that the trappers were right for the actions they took, at the behest of the US gov't, back then that led to the total demise of the great American Bison? how do you suppose the Plains Indians felt at the time? hey, the Jean-Luc Trappierres of the world weren't breaking any US Laws!! they had families to support and the Buffalo were there, right? gimmeee a break!

for me the same goes for this scenario,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,numbers can be switched and swayed however you would like them to be favored.

Originally Posted by Sashamy

I applaud you gentlemen for your thinking, but I am a little worried about your lack of compromise...why punish and continue to persecute the sector of the fishery that is hook and line? highly regulated? and done by a panel of your peers? anyone can get a license it is not a special interest group...just my two cents... Doug

and how is it a fish grab if ALL parties are in favor of a reduction in the take? 1 @ 36", free the pogies, and nobody is saying no to charters~~~ we ARE saying that something needs to be done so as NOT to repeat the past. we are saying no comm's for a time,,,,,2-3 yrs??? how harmful can it be to relieve our beloved prey of some pressure for a short period of time? and if as you said we ALL got licenses, well then that would REALLY boost the comm take now wouldn't it? and isn't it a little like shooting fish in a barrell these days once you hit Stellwagon? not much sport there, Sport! just sum thoughts, Doug.

[animal]

Who the eff,ever trapped buffalo?

[trapperpierre]

......the Buffalo reduction was a planned action by the government/business interests to reduce the Native American food supply-thus making it easier to control the plains indians and send them to reservations........to free up the great plains for agriculture(land grab)...i.e. grain crops and for beef cattle production............similar to SF attempt to grab all the striped bass(fish resource grab)......

[Sashamy]

Bassdawg we are all substantially stupider after reading that post...you truly make no sense in your metaphors...I am glad people like you are not in charge of any resource...I am done with this topic...Doug

[BassDawg]

hey Bob,

nobody "trapped" buffalo, but the trappers became the
buffalo hunters along with mountain men, Johnny Hayseeds from the Colonies, and whoever the efffelse wanted to collect a sweet bounty~~~ once the US Gov't targeted the bison as an integral part of "ridding the West of the heathen savages" the slaughter was awn and it was without regard for species or the Peoples whose Lives depended so heavily upon such a noble and majestic breed of animal. to this day, it is the cleanest red meat source on the planet and the added benefits of hide for shelter and clothing, teeth and horns for tools and utensils, etc,,,,,,,,,makes the buffalo such an amazing and God-given animal, imho.

hey Doug,

that's cool,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just like most comm's i know~~~ when yer feet get put to the firey voice of conservation and reasonable sacrifice, or when you are asked to consider the Striper as something more than $$$$ cash COWS for the good of all and for the future of our children's children,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then everyone else is an idiot, fudged science reigns supreme, and the status quo MUST REMAIN at all costs, beit species, environment, or man!!!

[animal]

Jess,if you're really concerned about the future of the striped bass,armed with the knowledge that recs kill more bass than comms,I think you are trying to close the wrong fishery.I mean,if it's all about the bass' survival,you should close the fishery doing the most damage,no?

[BassDawg]

YUP! agreed, mi amigo.

for me it is just one part of the three pronged attack and
i certainly do not think that reducing the take is ALL that there is to the Striper puzzle.

we MUST be concerned with the worsening pollution of their spawning and migratory estuaries, we MUST also take care of one of their primary forages~ the bunker ~so that they can restore their biomass(better length to weight ratios) to pre purse seining figures and aid them in their recovery from the rampant bactaereosous(sp?) that endangers them yearly.

and we MUST do whatever else it takes to leave the American Striper Stocks better than we found them when our generation began to cast the surf,,,,,,,,,,,,,,am i asking for the moon? i don't think so, change, most certainly!

[Nebe]

When te MPA areas happen, everyone will get their wish.... Except there's a small catch
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[intrepid24]

oh, yes most informative nebe....you know the real story before most of us peons.....you would find it at your leisure to inform us; the uninformed, uneducated simplefolk.....

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by Nebe

When te MPA areas happen, everyone will get their wish.... Except there's a small catch
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PLEASE,,,,,,,,,,,,oh wise and Nebulous One,
tell us of the small catch?? but, i dare say

that we will let the MPA's fly? that's the stuff that is reserved
for the Left Coast and ALL its wingnut, whacko, enviroliberallis!!

[animal]

Originally Posted by BassDawg

PLEASE,,,,,,,,,,,,oh wise and Nebulous One,
tell us of the small catch?? but, i dare say

that we will let the MPA's fly? that's the stuff that is reserved
for the Left Coast and ALL its wingnut, whacko, enviroliberallis!!

Nope.Nebe's right,and the biggest reason he's right is that we are divided.We are three or four user groups,instead of one.You can bicker back and forth rec vs. comm,and pew and co.sees an easy target.I fearfully see mpa's in our future.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by BassDawg

PLEASE,,,,,,,,,,,,oh wise and Nebulous One,
tell us of the small catch?? but, i dare say

that we will let the MPA's fly? that's the stuff that is reserved
for the Left Coast and ALL its wingnut, whacko, enviroliberallis!!

The small catch is you won't be able to wet a line period. Not for a friggen choggie or a sea robin. The entire ara is closed to all hooks, all nets, all traps... Everything. The enviroment will heal- the bottom will recover from draggers, the grasses will return, more life will come back and there will be a lot of fish around.... TO LOOK AT... That's the small catch
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sashamy]

Nope I am all the user groups...I am a fisherman...whether commercial, recreational ect...I aire on the side of fairness...not one sided the sky is falling bs spewed by some here..the sky is not falling and if it does there are measures set to stop the stock from being pressured below certain thresholds...