Disaster

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

found this interesting seeing the narrative of everyone knew coming from the Right

We've now heard from the UK's Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab, who is in Pakistan as part of efforts to secure safe passage for Britons and others trying to leave Afghanistan.

At a press conference in Islamabad, Raab says there was "common widespread surprise" at the pace of the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan.

Even the Taliban were "taken by surprise" at the speed, he says. The militants took control of Kabul on 15 August, ahead of the scheduled withdrawal of foreign troops at the end of the month.

Got Stripers said any idiot would have seen it coming. i guess that’s too high of a hurdle for Biden.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Got Stripers said any idiot would have seen it coming. i guess that’s too high of a hurdle for Biden.
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Twisted my words to suit your narrative, how GOP of you.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Twisted my words to suit your narrative, how GOP of you.

Here are your exact posts on this thread, your exact words ("exact" means no twisting) describing the withdrawal...

"Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy."

"what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised"

So in your own words, (1) you'd have to be an idiot to fail to foresee that it would get messy. And (2) you'd have to be stupid to think things would go according to plan.

So what was Biden's strategy to deal with things when they got messy? What was the alternative plan to deal with the inevitable (your words) mess?

Or am I twisting your words, somehow?

See, I think you don't know the difference between my "twisting" your words, and my "using your words to club you like a baby seal".

Because according to your two statements there, the only conclusion is that Biden is stupid and an idiot. Using your barometer, your standards. Because there was no plan other than to hope things stayed stable at Kabul.

Try. Making. That. Wrong.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Here are your exact posts on this thread, your exact words ("exact" means no twisting) describing the withdrawal...

"Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy."

"what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised"

So in your own words, (1) you'd have to be an idiot to fail to foresee that it would get messy. And (2) you'd have to be stupid to think things would go according to plan.

So what was Biden's strategy to deal with things when they got messy? What was the alternative plan to deal with the inevitable (your words) mess?

Or am I twisting your words, somehow?

See, I think you don't know the difference between my "twisting" your words, and my "using your words to club you like a baby seal".

Because according to your two statements there, the only conclusion is that Biden is stupid and an idiot. Using your barometer, your standards. Because there was no plan other than to hope things stayed stable at Kabul.

Try. Making. That. Wrong.

Easy to do just read your supposed quote vs my exact words, I called you the idiot, never implied anything other than a competent commander would understand getting out of a war, especially in that part of the world would be messy. Good twist of the words to suit your narrative, try harder I’m pretty sure your the only one getting that from my original post.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

found this interesting seeing the narrative of everyone knew coming from the Right

We've now heard from the UK's Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab, who is in Pakistan as part of efforts to secure safe passage for Britons and others trying to leave Afghanistan.

At a press conference in Islamabad, Raab says there was "common widespread surprise" at the pace of the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan.

Even the Taliban were "taken by surprise" at the speed, he says. The militants took control of Kabul on 15 August, ahead of the scheduled withdrawal of foreign troops at the end of the month.

we also saw the transcript of a call between biden and the afghan president, where biden said it wasn’t going well.

you tell me, which is more pertinent in terms of what Biden should have known…what Biden himself said in July, ow what the UK Fireign secretary ( who you never heard of until today) says he knew.

Biden said in July that it wasn’t going well. But he told americans it was going well.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Biden said in July that it wasn’t going well. But he told americans it was going well.

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pretty sure, in that call.... the president told weekend-at-biden's exactly what was going to happen with the taliban and biden responded by checking his watch

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

we also saw the transcript of a call between biden and the afghan president, where biden said it wasn’t going well.

That's not what he said.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

That's not what he said.

the hell it isn’t.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

the hell it isn’t.
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It's not. Biden was saying that they had a stronger army but because of a lack of PR essentially some were concerned they weren't doing as well.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

That's not what he said.

he also said today, that his 3.5 trillion spending bill “will ease inflationary concerns.”. Can you explain to me how federal government spending 3.5 trillion will reduce inflation? because i’ve always assumed inflation happens when there’s too much money out there.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

he also said today, that his 3.5 trillion spending bill “will ease inflationary concerns.”. Can you explain to me how federal government spending 3.5 trillion will reduce inflation? because i’ve always assumed inflation happens when there’s too much money out there.
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Looks like he's found another use for some of the money spent in Afghanistan, this guy would agree

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

he also said today, that his 3.5 trillion spending bill “will ease inflationary concerns.”. Can you explain to me how federal government spending 3.5 trillion will reduce inflation? because i’ve always assumed inflation happens when there’s too much money out there.
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Yea, because that communist organization Moody's said so.

[Pete F.]

Within two presidential election cycles, much of the south will be blue. As former Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams told the New York Times: "The Sun Belt expansion (by Democrats) is what will drive the next thirty years of elections."

Demographers and political pros have been watching and discussing these trends for a decade. Now the data may finally be about to deliver results, starting in the fall. In other words: the Democrats long nightmare in the Sun Belt may be, at last, coming to an end.

These states aren't turning blue because conservatives are suddenly discovering their inner AOC. The shift is driven by demographics—what demographers call "generational replacement," urbanization, and increasingly, the migration of blue state residents to red states. Worryingly for Republicans, these new arrivals have brought their voting habits and blue policies with them. Author Kristin B. Tate calls it the "liberal invasion of red state America." She believes that companies and people are fleeing high tax/low-growth blue states for low tax/high-growth red states. She says, "Harris County (Houston) where I live has absorbed a huge number of people from California. A middle-class family can afford a home here."

Welcome to the Great Migration 2.0, one that may give the Democrats an electoral advantage that could last for generations to come. (See map at end of story.)

To understand what's really going on, we spoke to a dozen experts and dove deep into the data. Working with data provided by William H. Frey, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of Diversity Explosion, we looked at twenty years of migration by state, and compared that to changes in presidential voting patterns using data from the website 270toWin. And finally, we studied migration patterns by age from a database at the University of Wisconsin.

What we found is not great news for the Grand Old Party.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Within two presidential election cycles, much of the south will be blue. As former Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams told the New York Times: "The Sun Belt expansion (by Democrats) is what will drive the next thirty years of elections."

Demographers and political pros have been watching and discussing these trends for a decade. Now the data may finally be about to deliver results, starting in the fall. In other words: the Democrats long nightmare in the Sun Belt may be, at last, coming to an end.

These states aren't turning blue because conservatives are suddenly discovering their inner AOC. The shift is driven by demographics—what demographers call "generational replacement," urbanization, and increasingly, the migration of blue state residents to red states. Worryingly for Republicans, these new arrivals have brought their voting habits and blue policies with them. Author Kristin B. Tate calls it the "liberal invasion of red state America." She believes that companies and people are fleeing high tax/low-growth blue states for low tax/high-growth red states. She says, "Harris County (Houston) where I live has absorbed a huge number of people from California. A middle-class family can afford a home here."

Welcome to the Great Migration 2.0, one that may give the Democrats an electoral advantage that could last for generations to come. (See map at end of story.)

To understand what's really going on, we spoke to a dozen experts and dove deep into the data. Working with data provided by William H. Frey, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of Diversity Explosion, we looked at twenty years of migration by state, and compared that to changes in presidential voting patterns using data from the website 270toWin. And finally, we studied migration patterns by age from a database at the University of Wisconsin.

What we found is not great news for the Grand Old Party.

I for one, think the GOP should just disband. I mean if Stacey Abrams says it's over, there can be no other outcome. She's rational and brilliant, not even a little bit nutty.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I for one, think the GOP should just disband. I mean if Stacey Abrams says it's over, there can be no other outcome. She's rational and brilliant, not even a little bit nutty.

What party do the two senators from Georgia belong to?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

These states aren't turning blue because conservatives are suddenly discovering their inner AOC. The shift is driven by demographics—what demographers call "generational replacement," . . .

Welcome to the Great Migration 2.0, one that may give the Democrats an electoral advantage that could last for generations to come.

This is interesting. When I said that my concern over millions of illegal immigrants being accepted here, with the Democrat Party's support and encouragement of it, was because they would cause a demographic political shift to the left, you insisted that my concern was really because the immigrants had brown skin.

[Jim in CT]

Pete, is MSNBC mainstream? this week, hey said that evangelical christians in the US bear a lot of resemblance to muslim theocracies who impose sharia law.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Pete, is MSNBC mainstream? this week, hey said that evangelical christians in the US bear a lot of resemblance to muslim theocracies who impose sharia law.
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Just what is Sharia Law?
In Arabic, the term sharīʿah refers to God's immutable divine law and is contrasted with fiqh, which refers to its human scholarly interpretations.

Do many white evangelical Christians believe the Bible is the ultimate law by which to govern? And that it supersedes any law written by Man.

If there was a conflict between God’s law and Man’s law, a Christian would be advised to keep God’s Law. It would be better to go to jail than to rot in Hell. — Truthinlove.com

God said it. I believe it. That settles it.


In the Moral Majority’s founding treatise, they were very clear in their belief that God’s law trumps Man’s law, a Christian form of Sharia law. To them, it was imperative to highjack every means of forcing Man’s law to mirror God’s law with patience (they have been at this for over forty years), surgical political strategies (Citizens United, gerrymandering), and utter ruthlessness (encouraging conspiracy theories and sedition from the pulpit.)
This is why so many white evangelicals justify voting for Donald Trump. After almost forty years, their goal of making the United States a theocracy ruled by God’s law was within reach. Because of Mitch McConnell’s block of judicial confirmations in the United States Senate, federal judicial benches around the country sat vacant. With a transactionally conservative President, a takeover of the liberal federal judiciary was within reach, not only to overturn Roe v Wade, but to enact a raft of Bible-based nationwide legislation. Trump further validated evangelical Christians by elevating one to vice-president; he never questioned their candidates for federal judicial appointments; and he paid lip service to their importance.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Just what is Sharia Law?
In Arabic, the term sharīʿah refers to God's immutable divine law and is contrasted with fiqh, which refers to its human scholarly interpretations.

Do many white evangelical Christians believe the Bible is the ultimate law by which to govern? And that it supersedes any law written by Man.

If there was a conflict between God’s law and Man’s law, a Christian would be advised to keep God’s Law. It would be better to go to jail than to rot in Hell. — Truthinlove.com

God said it. I believe it. That settles it.


In the Moral Majority’s founding treatise, they were very clear in their belief that God’s law trumps Man’s law, a Christian form of Sharia law. To them, it was imperative to highjack every means of forcing Man’s law to mirror God’s law with patience (they have been at this for over forty years), surgical political strategies (Citizens United, gerrymandering), and utter ruthlessness (encouraging conspiracy theories and sedition from the pulpit.)
This is why so many white evangelicals justify voting for Donald Trump. After almost forty years, their goal of making the United States a theocracy ruled by God’s law was within reach. Because of Mitch McConnell’s block of judicial confirmations in the United States Senate, federal judicial benches around the country sat vacant. With a transactionally conservative President, a takeover of the liberal federal judiciary was within reach, not only to overturn Roe v Wade, but to enact a raft of Bible-based nationwide legislation. Trump further validated evangelical Christians by elevating one to vice-president; he never questioned their candidates for federal judicial appointments; and he paid lip service to their importance.

you left out one salient difference. In places with Sharia law, how tolerant are they of people who don't feel inclined to live that way? How many people are being brutalized by born again christians in america at the moment?

"This is why so many white evangelicals justify voting for Donald Trump"

They voted for Trump because (1) they like Mike Pence, and (2) Trump was the best friend to the unborn, that has ever been in the White House.

Youre still a fanatic I see.

"Do many white evangelical Christians believe the Bible is the ultimate law by which to govern?"

No. Not even close. Who is calling for a Christian theocracy? Nobody. Are you feeling OK?

[Pete F.]

“Over the last 72 hours, I have received multiple death threats and thousands upon thousands of emails from Christians saying the nastiest and most vulgar things I have ever heard toward my family and ministry. I have been labeled a coward, sellout, a traitor to the Holy Spirit, and cussed out at least 500 times.”

This is the beginning of a Facebook post from Sunday by the conservative preacher Jeremiah Johnson. On Jan. 7, the day after the storming of the Capitol, Johnson issued a public apology, asserting that God removed Donald Trump from office because of his pride and arrogance, and to humble those, like Johnson, who had fervently supported him.

The response was swift and vicious. As he wrote in that later Facebook post, “I have been flabbergasted at the barrage of continued conspiracy theories being sent every minute our way and the pure hatred being unleashed. To my great heartache, I’m convinced parts of the prophetic/charismatic movement are far SICKER than I could have ever dreamed of.”

This is what is happening inside evangelical Christianity and within conservatism right now. As a conservative Christian friend of mine put it, there is strife within every family, within every congregation, and it may take generations to recover.

[Pete F.]

No plan?
Now the US military doesn't plan?

‘In a country with millions of people and cars going everywhere, the enemy is going to get a car bomb out there once in awhile.’

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/afghani...on-operations/

https://www.jcs.mil/Doctrine/DOCNET/...on-Operations/

https://news.usni.org/2021/08/17/afg...ation-missions

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

No plan?
Now the US military doesn't plan?

‘In a country with millions of people and cars going everywhere, the enemy is going to get a car bomb out there once in awhile.’

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/afghani...on-operations/

https://www.jcs.mil/Doctrine/DOCNET/...on-Operations/

https://news.usni.org/2021/08/17/afg...ation-missions

This has already been covered. but Jim thinks Biden has Trumps sharpie and made the plan. He needs to look up a thing called Commanders intent. To even begin to understand military planning .. but as I have said imaginary out comes work better for Republicans and conservatives . They can disregard Facts and Truths easier …

400k Americans dead from COVID under Trump no screams from the Maga universe about blood on his hands and he should resign?

But 13 marines die getting 120 thousand people out of harms way and their outraged ?

And now many of the unvaccinated are dying because the were sold another lie by their leaders .. inspired by the imaginary
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

This has already been covered. but Jim thinks Biden has Trumps sharpie and made the plan. He needs to look up a thing called Commanders intent. To even begin to understand military planning .. but as I have said imaginary out comes work better for Republicans and conservatives . They can disregard Facts and Truths easier …

400k Americans dead from COVID under Trump no screams from the Maga universe about blood on his hands and he should resign?

But 13 marines die getting 120 thousand people out of harms way and their outraged ?

And now many of the unvaccinated are dying because the were sold another lie by their leaders .. inspired by the imaginary
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i know Biden didn’t craft the plan, he couldn’t draw a circle in a piece of paper. but the buck stops with him. you disagree?

so i guess your logos is that only republicans presidents are responsible for bad results on their watch.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i know Biden didn’t craft the plan, he couldn’t draw a circle in a piece of paper. but the buck stops with him. you disagree?

so i guess your logos is that only republicans presidents are responsible for bad results on their watch.
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Yes Jim the POTUS is responsible but I find it odd that Republicans now want to Hold Biden to a standard they wouldn’t even hold Trump to.. I know I used the term capt of the ship a few time..
But I am objective enough to understand Biden didn’t kill those marines their leadership didn’t kill those marines a suicide bomber killed those marines , and I understand a mass casualties event like that is horrific, for the Nation and their families, but it’s no less painful 1 at a time but Americans don’t see or hear about those sacrifices.. but this faux outrage about Biden got blood on his hand is just classic outrage machine ..


Yet The right won’t call them cowards ! (Afghan army )they are the reason the withdrawal turned into what we saw , and the reason why the Taliban has all that nice equipment.. but it’s easier for MAGA and Republicans to blame Biden than actually looking at the big picture and blame the Afghan army who many Americans lost their live defending them and Training them to fight .. we didn’t bail on Afghans Afghans bailed themselves. And now the reap what the sow..

so now the right has moved on to the fear mongers they are ! that Biden’s bring in terrorist ! their all un vetted

2 months ago it was people crossing the border was the cause of the Covid 19 spikes in the country not the unvaccinated

Or passing laws with citizens enforcing Aka law suits. So much for tort reform.

Let’s see what’s the next outrage is ? another electrical grid failure in a red State suddenly becomes the governments fault
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i know Biden didn’t craft the plan, he couldn’t draw a circle in a piece of paper. but the buck stops with him. you disagree?

so i guess your logos is that only republicans presidents are responsible for bad results on their watch.
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Jim your right, nobody draws circles or hurricane path lines like Trump did and if there is a disaster after, he was always there to throw you paper towels.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Jim your right, nobody draws circles or hurricane path lines like Trump did and if there is a disaster after, he was always there to throw you paper towels.
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here’s the difference between us. I criticized trump all the time. you’re bending over backwards here to protect biden.

here’s a fact for you. every 4 years, during a presidential election year, Gallup does a poll, asking americans if they’re better off today than they were 4 years ago. Gallup did this poll in early 2020, during the pandemic, and a record number of americans said they were better off than 4 years ago. never before had more americans say they were better off. never in the history of that poll. and that was during a pandemic.

America didn’t like trumps behavior, but they liked his policies. this is why the left is absolutely terrified of Desantis. he’s Trump without the disgusting behavior, and that’s going to be very tough to beat. having every rv station except one in your pocket helps obviously.
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[Pete F.]

In much of the call, Biden focused on what he called the Afghan government’s “perception” problem. “I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban,” Biden said. “And there is a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture.”

Biden told Ghani that if Afghanistan’s prominent political figures were to give a press conference together, backing a new military strategy, “that will change perception, and that will change an awful lot I think.”

The American leader’s words indicated he didn’t anticipate the massive insurrection and collapse to come 23 days later. “We are going to continue to fight hard, diplomatically, politically, economically, to make sure your government not only survives, but is sustained and grows,” said Biden.

SECOND CALL WITH TOP STAFF

In a follow-up call later that day that did not include the U.S. president, Biden’s National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, General Mark Milley and U.S. Central Command commander General Frank McKenzie spoke to Ghani. Reuters also obtained a transcript of that call.

In this call, too, an area of focus was the global perception of events on the ground in Afghanistan. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told Ghani “the perception in the United States, in Europe and the media sort of thing is a narrative of Taliban momentum, and a narrative of Taliban victory. And we need to collectively demonstrate and try to turn that perception, that narrative around.”

“I do not believe time is our friend here. We need to move quickly,” McKenzie added.

[wdmso]

Jim I guess Biden should just say it was a perfect phone call..

Then maybe you’ll believe him . It worked last time?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim I guess Biden should just say it was a perfect phone call..

Then maybe you’ll believe him . It worked last time?
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i don’t know what you’re saying. but during that call, biden said that the fighting with the taliban wasnt going well. but he told america it was all ok.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i don’t know what you’re saying. but during that call, biden said that the fighting with the taliban wasnt going well. but he told america it was all ok.
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Is that they only part you read ? Where the rest of the conversation?

Like I said you’re unable or unwilling to see the big picture or in this case the entirety of the phone call.. because as we know context means a lot ..

Here an idea lets just do what was done all the time here when Trump said something and what he said was always defended claiming it was just hyperbole .
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