What another conspiracy theory debunked

[Pete F.]

“Trump is collapsing and his allies of convenience are panicked. Now is when you turn a victory into a rout. We are all tired, but the other side isn’t just tired. They are frightened and confused. Because they are losing the fight...Victory is near.”
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Trump has made 500 visits to his properties while in office"

I don't defend it. If it's illegal, throw him out and arrest him. But I fit's wrong for his family to profit from his holding elected office, isn't it also wrong for Biden's family to profit from him holding elected office?

There you go again
I don't defend it. If it's illegal, throw him out and arrest him


Why don't you afford biden the same courtesy

TRUMP using his properties for gain is not remotely the same as what you suggest Hunter has done.. it still amazes me your abilities to twist 2 different issues into one suggesting they are. Equivalent

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Donald Trump—auditioning for a job in which he must stand up to Vladimir Putin, Recep Erdogan, Abdel el-Sisi, Kim Jong Un, Mohammed bin Salman, Mohammad bin Zayed, ISIS and enemies of the US around the world—has just announced that Lesley Stahl vanquished him with tough questions
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is biden going to need a 5 day nap prior to every time he has to stand up to a foreign leader... if he happens to get elected?....asking for the nation

[detbuch]

[scottw]

^^^...wow...not even an unnamed anonymous source speaking on conditions of anonymity....an actual partner of biden inc. ...hope he can avoid getting hillaried


wait....I thought this was all russian disinformation? he doesn't sound russian





....

[spence]

Wait was this the dubious plot for Biden to sell pillows and sheets?

I see even the Wall Street Journal has debunked the above Trump scam.
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[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

Wait was this the dubious plot for Biden to sell pillows and sheets?

I see even the Wall Street Journal has debunked the above Trump scam.
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Simpler than that. If there was any ‘there’ the GOP lapdogs in the Senate would be running full bore with investigations heading in to the election.
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[PaulS]

I think Trump won the debate last night because he didn't have a temper tantrum. I wonder if they promised him extra ice cream if he didn't lose his temper too bad or mocked Biden's stuttering.
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[wdmso]

Bobulinski, who will be a guest of President Trump at the debate

Hows that work? Witness tampering? Any credibility just flew out the window.

And only State Tv is running this and only Fox has been given suposed documents ? Why?

And dont for get hand in pants Rudy
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I think Trump won the debate last night because he didn't have a temper tantrum. I wonder if they promised him extra ice cream if he didn't lose his temper too bad or mocked Biden's stuttering.
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Looks to me like he needed to win big and didn't quite do that. I can't see a path to victory for him. But I said the same thing in 2016. So who knows.

Have a good weekend Paul.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Bobulinski, who will be a guest of President Trump at the debate

Hows that work? Witness tampering? Any credibility just flew out the window.

And only State Tv is running this and only Fox has been given suposed documents ? Why?
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The democrats invited Alysa Milano to sit in the front row of the gallery during the Kavanaugh hearings, Wayne. It's a juvenile, shock tactic to be sure, but obviously it doesn't imply witness tampering.

"And only State Tv is running this and only Fox has been given suposed documents ? "

Is that the case? Or are no other networks asking for anything, because they have zero interest in covering the story?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The democrats invited Alysa Milano to sit in the front row of the gallery during the Kavanaugh hearings, Wayne. It's a juvenile, shock tactic to be sure, but obviously it doesn't imply witness tampering.

"And only State Tv is running this and only Fox has been given suposed documents ? "

Is that the case? Or are no other networks asking for anything, because they have zero interest in covering the story?

I know at least the NYT has asked and been denied.

Just watched the Rudy scene. Even if it is edited for maximum impact it’s still pretty bad.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I know at least the NYT has asked and been denied.

Just watched the Rudy scene. Even if it is edited for maximum impact it’s still pretty bad.
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They asked who? For what? I thought they saw enough files to conclude it was all a Russian hoax?

Rudy is a sad shadow of what he used to be, no question.

The guy who came forward yesterday is a formal naval officer who has repeatedly donated to democrats. It's not Sean Hannity making the accusation.

I don't know if any laws were broken, I assume most people (both parties) at this level will look to line their pockets where they can, it's too much temptation. To deny the likelihood that the Bidens did that, reveals blind partisan loyalty.

Spence, you really believe that of all the places on Earth where Hunter could have been given a cushy board position that he had no qualifications for, it's a coincidence that he ended up in Ukraine, where his father was our country's point man? You're saying that's just a coincidence? And all these other charges can't be true?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Looks to me like he needed to win big and didn't quite do that. I can't see a path to victory for him. But I said the same thing in 2016. So who knows.

Have a good weekend Paul.

I actually think the format was better for Trump yesterday. Thank you for the weekend wishes. I'm actually in Newport. You have a good weekend also.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I actually think the format was better for Trump yesterday. Thank you for the weekend wishes. I'm actually in Newport. You have a good weekend also.
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I didn't watch a second, I hate the way Trump talks. He couldn't have done worse than the first. And interesting to have a debate after 35 million people have already voted.

Newport a great place to spend a warm fall weekend. Enjoy.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I didn't watch a second, I hate the way Trump talks. He couldn't have done worse than the first. And interesting to have a debate after 35 million people have already voted.

Newport a great place to spend a warm fall weekend. Enjoy.

I watched the debate last night. It was I believe the first time I have seen a glimmer of presidential behavior from the chitgibbon
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I watched the debate last night. It was I believe the first time I have seen a glimmer of presidential behavior from the chitgibbon
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I thought his last State Of The Union was by far the best I've seen him. It makes my skin crawl to watch him sometimes.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The guy who came forward yesterday is a formal naval officer who has repeatedly donated to democrats. It's not Sean Hannity making the accusation.

It sounds like he's just miffed because Hunter tried to ink a deal without him.

I don't know if any laws were broken, I assume most people (both parties) at this level will look to line their pockets where they can, it's too much temptation. To deny the likelihood that the Bidens did that, reveals blind partisan loyalty.

I assume you mean your own?

Spence, you really believe that of all the places on Earth where Hunter could have been given a cushy board position that he had no qualifications for, it's a coincidence that he ended up in Ukraine, where his father was our country's point man? You're saying that's just a coincidence? And all these other charges can't be true?

Nobody is denying that Burisma was trying to hire prominent public figures to it's board. The white elephant in the room is that there's no evidence of anything illegal or unethical other than some bad optics by Hunter.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I assume you mean your own?


.

Between the 2 of us, who has a history of praising and criticizing both sides? And which one praises their side 100% of the time?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Between the 2 of us, who has a history of praising and criticizing both sides? And which one praises their side 100% of the time?

I don't have a "side" I'm an American.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I don't have a "side" I'm an American.

Fine. Then I'll ask you for the tenth time, please list some major issues on which you think conservatives are 100% correct, and which you think liberals are 100% wrong.

You and Pete are the most blindly one-sided guys on this forum. I've heard everyone else occasionally praise and criticize both sides. Not you. You fit into the liberal box as perfectly as an idiot like Sean Hannity fits into the conservative box. You are the exact mirror image.

Prove me wrong. Rattle off some meaningful issues on which you think conservatives are 100% correct. Go ahead, mister "I don't have a side". Where the two parties fundamentally disagree, when have you ever sided with republicans?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Fine. Then I'll ask you for the tenth time, please list some major issues on which you think conservatives are 100% correct, and which you think liberals are 100% wrong.

I'm not sure you could find that many issues that 100% of conservatives agree with.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm not sure you could find that many issues that 100% of conservatives agree with.

Obviously you know what I meant, and couldn't come up with a single thing.

[Pete F.]

As someone who’s been against Covita and Trumpism since he came down the escalator and I said he will destroy the Republican Party, I don’t have an agenda other than that he and his enablers go.
The resurrection of America will come later.

Here’s what Mona Charon wrote lately about Trump and conservativism
Donald Trump has a documented history of driving Americans away from the policies he favors. This is both good and bad.

As Catherine Rampell noted, the president has moved American public opinion toward greater approval of immigration. The percentage of Americans who said that immigration is good for the country bounced around in the 50s and 60s in the first decade and a half of this century. But since 2016, the trend has been up sharply. In 2020, 77 percent of Americans told Gallup that they think immigration is good for the country. Similarly, the percentage who believe that accepting refugees fleeing war or persecution should be a priority has increased from 62 percent in 2016 to 73 percent in 2019. As Linda Chavez has noted at The Bulwark, the U.S. led the world in refugee admissions for decades, but under Trump, the number of refugees has dropped to record lows. The president has set a ceiling of 18,000 for fiscal year 2020, down from 70,000 in 2001. We’ve come a long way from George W. Bush’s admirable insistence on admitting refugees even after 9/11.

Trump has also increased the appetite for government involvement in health care. Since embarking on his quest for the presidency, Trump has denounced the Affordable Care Act, but only because he promised something superior. His specific policy proposal for replacing the law was something “terrific,” “phenomenal,” and “fantastic.” In February of 2017, having been in office a few weeks, Trump tweeted “repeal and replacement of ObamaCare is coming fast!” At the end of March, with negotiations bogging down, he pleaded for more time.

I never said repeal and replace Obamacare. You’ve all heard my speeches. I never said repeal it and replace it within 64 days. [He said 100 days.] I have a long time. But I want to have a great health care bill and plan, and we will. It will happen. And it won’t be in the very distant future.
It didn’t happen. The Republicans shrugged and moved on to tax reform, and the president turned to important matters like accusing Joe Scarborough of murder and warning America about the imminent danger from caravans of immigrants heading for our border. Health care reform was a dead letter, except that having failed to repeal or replace the ACA through legislation, the administration joined in a legal assault on the law, challenging its constitutionality. If the Trump administration were to get its way at the Supreme Court, millions of Americans would lose health insurance in the midst of a pandemic. Oh, and on August 3 of this year, the president once again promised his own health care proposal “hopefully, prior to the end of the month.”

Amazingly, the public’s response to this clown show was to express increasing support for the ACA, with a solid 55 percent expressing approval of the law this month, up from about 40 percent in 2016.

Trump’s fulminations against trade have convinced some—Republicans are now far more negative about NAFTA than in the pre-Trump era—but most Americans have moved in the other direction, with 74 percent agreeing that trade is an opportunity for economic growth versus 21 percent who view it as a threat to the economy.

As a pro-immigrant free-trader, I’m not sorry that Trump has driven people away from his views, though I do regret that the Republican party, which I once believed was sincere about favoring more free-market approaches to health care delivery, has crumbled into a heap of ashes on the subject. Unable to tackle the one issue they had made the centerpiece of four consecutive elections, they are reduced to attempting to sabotage the law Democrats managed to pass.

Trump has driven people away from the Republican party, and caused them to reject the label “conservative.” I’m inclined to reject it myself, because in the age of Trump, it has become associated with nativism, racism, ignorance, authoritarianism, contempt, and crackpottery. And while it’s no loss for the nation if protectionism and nativism are discredited, there are other things that Trumpism endangers that would be serious losses.

I worry that Trump is contaminating patriotism itself. His blatantly racist appeals combined with his crude and offensive invocations of “America First” run the risk of associating patriotism with whiteness. His fondness for the Confederacy stains his embrace of the American flag.

What Trump’s fans on the right never seem to grapple with as they ceaselessly invoke the specter of socialism, riots, and gun confiscation, is how much Trump drives the left toward extremism. We are in the midst of a left-wing fever of revisionism about American history. From the 1619 Project to the toppling of statues of anti-slavery heroes, there is a movement afoot that Bari Weiss calls a “mixture of postmodernism, postcolonialism, identity politics, neo-Marxism, critical race theory, intersectionality, and the therapeutic mentality.” Some of this predated Trump of course, but he has turbo-charged it.

The leftwing challenge to American legitimacy has always stressed racism, colonialism, sexism, and unconstrained capitalism. Trump has lived down to each and every one of those stereotypes. (You may object that he wasn’t a colonialist, but don’t forget “Take the oil!”)

As we look to rebuild in a post-Trump world, we non-leftists must be able to make the case for American patriotism. We cannot respond to the 1619 Project with heavy-handed attempts to limit its reach, but with arguments and context. No, this country would not be lovable if its history were one long chronicle of racism and oppression. It isn’t. We have much to be ashamed of in our history but much more to celebrate and be grateful for. We have been free and a beacon of freedom for more than two centuries. We have welcomed people from all over the globe and insisted that when they become citizens they are the full equals of those born here. We have confronted our past sins, imperfectly of course, but diligently nevertheless. We’ve given the world fantastic inventions like the airplane and the Salk vaccine, but nothing more important than the Declaration of Independence with its ringing invocation of natural rights.

Trump is a shriveled soul and tends to diminish everything and everyone he touches. As we move out of his orbit, we can begin to recapture some of the grandeur of the nation he has led so miserably. Consider the words of Ronald Reagan in his farewell address in January, 1989, ruminating on what America meant to the world:

I’ve been reflecting on what the past 8 years have meant and mean. And the image that comes to mind like a refrain is a nautical one—a small story about a big ship, and a refugee, and a sailor. It was back in the early ‘80s, at the height of the boat people. And the sailor was hard at work on the carrier Midway, which was patrolling the South China Sea. The sailor, like most American servicemen, was young, smart, and fiercely observant. The crew spied on the horizon a leaky little boat. And crammed inside were refugees from Indochina hoping to get to America. The Midway sent a small launch to bring them to the ship and safety. As the refugees made their way through the choppy seas, one spied the sailor on deck, and stood up, and called out to him. He yelled, ‘Hello, American sailor. Hello, freedom man.’
We cannot permit American patriotism to be hijacked by yahoos and bigots. As we start to heal from the past four years, we must rescue patriotism from Trumpism.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Trump is a shriveled soul and tends to diminish everything and everyone he touches. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yup, that's accurate and objective.

Yet a record-breaking 56% of respondents said they're better off today than 4 years ago, and that's during a pandemic.

[Pete F.]

Not now

https://www.ft.com/content/64ceaf97-...6-e458978aad85
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