Pats

[hq2]

deal gas law does not apply. Atmospheric air is nowhere close to an ideal gas. Need to account for humidity and condensation due to temp change. Also ball is elastic so volume is not constant. Sighting ideal gas law is overly simplistic.

Yes, I agree that ideal gas law is over simplistic. However, it is accurate over a fairly wide range of typical conditions. Note that humidity counts as a gas (water vapor is part of the partial pressures). Note also that contraction of the football due to lower pressure would REDUCE the available volume, actually RAISING
the pressure ABOVE what the ideal gas law would predict! Ideal gas law would tend to UNDERPREDICT the pressure!

The point of it is that the actual pressure difference is more than THREE TIMES greater than the ideal gas law would predict. I am familiar with corrections to the ideal gas law, and no way is it that wrong.

[Clogston29]

Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't some water vapor liquify as temperature drops and reduce the quantity and therefore pressure of the gas. Maybe it's negligible.
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[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by hq2

Did a simple ideal gas law calculation (PV=nRT). As shown by another guy up above, you need for the field temperature to be around
10 below zero to get pressures in the range of 1.5 psi lower, assuming the balls were inflated at room temperature. The game
temperature was around 45 degrees. At that temperature, there should have been less than .5 psi difference. Sorry, Bill, no way the
atmospheric temperature makes that kind of a difference.

Apparently you were not paying attention to Bill's press conference completely.

The process of breaking in the balls for better tackiness actually artificially raised the PSI by 1 lb , is what they just discovered this week, follow along here, then he said they give the balls to the ref, he makes sure it is 12.5 let's say. Now a couple hours go by and the balls are brought out to the field, since they have had time to acclimate for 2 hours in that controlled enviroment for a while after the rub down or whatever, they have gone back to the 1 psi less by gametime. They play the game in 45 degree weather wet and cold and lose another .5 psi. He said that, I heard him say a total of 1-1/2 lb . That is what they could come up with to explain a loss of pressure. Nobody let any air out.

That brings to question, after the refs made sure the balls were 12.5 psi minimum 2 hours before the game, why did they not check them right before the game? That would have accounted for 1 lb of air missing, but they did not and they did not correct them. We are talking about footballs here. weather change accounts for the other half pound.

I believe every word Bill said.

he even had to once again defend his stance of the spygate bull chit
The signals they recorded were being filmed in front of 80,000 people, they all saw it, the Pats were not trying to hide anything, they were wrong about the rule, paid the price, MOVE ON PEOPLE.


Mike, thanks for the NFL report


the NFL can spend whatever they want to on their witch hunt, they can also stuff it up their corn holes

[Cool Beans]

Those lawyers are likely "haters" doing it Pro Mono

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by buckman

Never trust a lawyer . What a waste of non profit dollars
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Mike P is one lawyer I would trust, absolutely.

Mike, be certain it is noticed that you are one of the very few who have NOT bashed the Pats, I appreciate that.

[Sea Dangles]

I wonder if they didn't brush the 12th football
Yeah,that's the ticket
Somebody forgot to
Do their job
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[Piscator]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

I get a kick out of ( the integrity of the game crap )
Being a weight lifting gym rat for 40 plus years, no one can convince me that most of this league is not on some form of PED.
We wouldn't watch it if they weren't. We wouldn't want to watch normal people play pro football. We want bigger, faster and more violent. It's analogous to pro wrestling. Most of these guys can't get to look the way they do without a little help from chemistry and the wizardry of masking ability.
Deflated balls ? Give it a rest. You want integrity test these guys like the Olympics and just try to stay ahead of the money.
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Wilfork can dunk a basketball....that's freakish....
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[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I wonder if they didn't brush the 12th football
Yeah,that's the ticket
Somebody forgot to
Do their job
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The 12 th ball I'm pretty sure was the one that got intercepted, how can they even count that one if the Colts had possession of it and may have compromised it?

[Sea Dangles]

Do you have a link?
Where did you read that?

This is a conspiracy in your opinion?
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[rphud]

You have to wonder how often they check balls at halftime or end of game in similar cold weather. This all just has to be tested well. 11 out of 12 tells me something "special" happened this time, unless they never check balls later in any other games. "Special" could be the measurements taken as well as somebody reducing the pressure.

I still think the biggest issue with ideal gas law is the"vessel".

[Slipknot]

I have no link, just common sense brought me to that conclusion.

I don't think there is any conspiracy


The NFL started this witch hunt

I'm sure they are spending as much time and money to try to come out of this horribly blown out of proportion situation by trying their best to come out smelling like roses. I think Bill is telling the truth and the truth will come out.

Bill's press conference yesterday was the BEST EVER


I have not heard anyone state anything about how when you check air pressure with a gauge of any kind, a small amount of air volume escapes, I wonder if that is accounted for since the ball is such a small object. So how many times were they poked?

NOBODY took any air out during the game! period.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I wonder if they didn't brush the 12th football
Yeah,that's the ticket
Somebody forgot to
Do their job
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You don't brush the KICKERS ball.
You are kicking it to the other team during a punt or kick off, you WANT it slippery with the silicon film on it....

[Cool Beans]

The coach's explanation is completely believable and "Plausible".. the NFL is going to end up with egg on their face...

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

You don't brush the KICKERS ball.
You are kicking it to the other team during a punt or kick off, you WANT it slippery with the silicon film on it....

The kickers ball is an entirely different issue,get some fresh air.
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[Sea Dangles]

So, common sense tells you that the intercepted ball is the one that had more air in it? Yet this is the ball that was the genesis of the entire controversy. You are good. I really want to believe the Pats , just that their story has more holes in it than most people (outside NE) can believe. I know it did not affect the game at all but anybody not wearing a Pats Tee shirt is understandably finding this tough to swallow. Common sense should tell you that.
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[spence]

I don't think kickers use balls supplied by either team.

[Sea Dangles]

Btw, the NFL did not start this witch hunt. They are simply trying to decipher how the balls became under-inflated. They are doing their job.
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[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

The coach's explanation is completely believable and "Plausible".. the NFL is going to end up with egg on their face...

Don't know about that.
Here in New England (Ma.) Yes.
The rest of the country, not so much.
Like it or not, right or wrong, win or loose this will be part of their legacy, probably because of Spygate.

[Raider Ronnie]

Anyone here watch SNL last night.
Doubt the rest of the country sees it different than the fans in NE ???

[iamskippy]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Anyone here watch SNL last night.
Doubt the rest of the country sees it different than the fans in NE ???

Spot on Spot on! I am still laughing over here.

[wader-dad]

There are reports that the Colts balls where checked at halftime and none of them lost any pressure. Not trying to be a wiseguy Jet fan but are those reports true?

[spence]

Originally Posted by wader-dad

There are reports that the Colts balls where checked at halftime and none of them lost any pressure. Not trying to be a wiseguy Jet fan but are those reports true?

They were checked and found to be legal. That doesn't mean they lost pressure.

[5/0]

Originally Posted by iamskippy

Spot on Spot on! I am still laughing over here.

Trial by media, I'm sure it's the same way you'd want to be treated....

You fu(k.

The pats are going to light up the sea hag's next wknd.

Again two words for ya.


Suck it!
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[hq2]

Apparently you were not paying attention to Bill's press conference completely.

The process of breaking in the balls for better tackiness actually artificially raised the PSI by 1 lb , is what they just discovered this week, follow along here, then he said they give the balls to the ref, he makes sure it is 12.5 let's say. Now a couple hours go by and the balls are brought out to the field, since they have had time to acclimate for 2 hours in that controlled enviroment for a while after the rub down or whatever, they have gone back to the 1 psi less by gametime. They play the game in 45 degree weather wet and cold and lose another .5 psi. He said that, I heard him say a total of 1-1/2 lb . That is what they could come up with to explain a loss of pressure. Nobody let any air out.

That brings to question, after the refs made sure the balls were 12.5 psi minimum 2 hours before the game, why did they not check them right before the game? That would have accounted for 1 lb of air missing, but they did not and they did not correct them. We are talking about footballs here. weather change accounts for the other half pound.

I believe every word Bill said.

Well, let's get all this straightened out here. We've taken care of the physics; we all agree that about .5 psi would occur due to cold. How about the issue of legal responsibility? As far as I know, the regulations state that the balls are to be at a pressure of 12.5-13.5 psi AT THE TIME OF THE GAME, not two hours
before when the refs check them. That means that, REGARDLESS of whatever the Patriots did with the balls before the game, they are LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE
for ensuring that the balls are at the right pressure at the TIME OF THE GAME. This means that is UP TO THE PATRIOTS to check them AT THE TIME OF THE
GAME to make sure they are in compliance. If they are not, then they have to notify the officials and make appropriate re-inflation measures with the officials.

The Patriots have used their procedures for quite a while, and have had ample opportunities to check what they did prior to game time to see what corrections
needed to be made. The fact that 11 out of 12 balls were under-inflated indicates that they DID NOT perform any appropriate checking at game time. Consequently, while they may not have been deliberately deflated, nonetheless the team would still be guilty of negligence, EVEN IF EVERYTHING BELICHICK SAID IS TRUE. Does this make sense, folks?

[afterhours]

john harbaugh- don't know the rule book do i? try this one on for size tb and bb.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by hq2

Well, let's get all this straightened out here. We've taken care of the physics; we all agree that about .5 psi would occur due to cold. How about the issue of legal responsibility? As far as I know, the regulations state that the balls are to be at a pressure of 12.5-13.5 psi AT THE TIME OF THE GAME, not two hours
before when the refs check them. That means that, REGARDLESS of whatever the Patriots did with the balls before the game, they are LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE
for ensuring that the balls are at the right pressure at the TIME OF THE GAME. This means that is UP TO THE PATRIOTS to check them AT THE TIME OF THE
GAME to make sure they are in compliance. If they are not, then they have to notify the officials and make appropriate re-inflation measures with the officials.

The Patriots have used their procedures for quite a while, and have had ample opportunities to check what they did prior to game time to see what corrections
needed to be made. The fact that 11 out of 12 balls were under-inflated indicates that they DID NOT perform any appropriate checking at game time. Consequently, while they may not have been deliberately deflated, nonetheless the team would still be guilty of negligence, EVEN IF EVERYTHING BELICHICK SAID IS TRUE. Does this make sense, folks?

Doesn't make sense, the officials don't give the balls back to the team until just before game time.

[hq2]

Doesn't make sense, the officials don't give the balls back to the team until just before game time.

Doesn't matter. The Patriots are legally responsible for making sure
that WHATEVER they do, the balls are right at GAME TIME. Period.

[buckman]

And I'm I'm sure adding or removing air from the ball after they are inspected is illegal.
I'm sure we've all played with footballs in the cold weather. They can lose air and still actually feel harder
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[hq2]

And I'm I'm sure adding or removing air from the ball after they are inspected is illegal.

...unless of course, the refs approve it. The point is, the Pats were
responsible for ensuring that the balls were right at game time. They
had AMPLE opportunities to check their standard procedures to make
sure they got it right. If they didn't do it, that's negligence. Right, any
lawyers out there?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by hq2

...unless of course, the refs approve it. The point is, the Pats were
responsible for ensuring that the balls were right at game time. They
had AMPLE opportunities to check their standard procedures to make
sure they got it right. If they didn't do it, that's negligence. Right, any
lawyers out there?

I believe it's the refs job to add or remove air at that point
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