Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass

[striperman36]

Look at that!!
http://www.bostonherald.com/business...osition=recent

[UserRemoved1]

20"??????????? They can't be serious?

[striperman36]

I thought that strange too,maybe an accommodation to aquaculture?

[BigFish]

If 20 inches is not a mis-print then those folks on on Beacon Hill really don't know their ass from their elbow!

[5/0]

Originally Posted by BigFish

If 20 inches is not a mis-print then those folks on on Beacon Hill really don't know their ass from their elbow!

Larry you seem surprised,those fargin ice holes don't have a clue especially that little guy Patrick

[striperman36]

Can't find the hearing notice. Anybody? I only posted the AP wire

[Adam_777]

Wow what is the reason behind this ?More info is needed.

[PRBuzz]

Is this the reference to bill: H796, a bill introduced by Rep. Matthew Patrick to conserve wild striped bass by prohibiting the commercial sale in Massachusetts? Looks/reads like they intended a slot: 20 - 26 and greater than 40?

.....no instance shall any rule or regulation authorize the taking or possession of striped bass which are less than 20 inches in length or greater than 26 inches total length but less than 40 inches total length. It is unlawful to take or possess striped bass unless the fish are whole with head on and are between 20 and 26 inches total length or 40 inches and greater total length.

Note: this may not be the current language draft going before the House...

[TheSpecialist]

Like this will get passed. The comms will be all over it..

[Raven]

they said "tagged by the grower"

so as to not to be confused with the wild fish caught (shorts)

but the $1000 dollar Fine,,,,,,,,,,60 days in jail....stuff
was thinking:
whats to stop someone from sticking a few short fish
in the bed of your truck out of revenge or whatever
a bloody hate crime

it would make the buddy system paramount
unless you have a vehicle that prevents this
or it's your word against theirs.

[JohnR]

AN ACT RELATIVE TO THE CONSERVATION OF ATLANTIC STRIPED BASS.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:

SECTION 1. Section 110A of chapter 130 of the General Laws, as appearing in the 2006 Official Edition, is herby amended by striking the section in its entirety and inserting in place thereof the following
sentences:-

(a) Commercial harvesting and sale of wild striped bass shall be prohibited in the commonwealth.
The director, with the approval of the marine fisheries advisory commission, shall adopt rules and regulations relative to the taking or possession of wild striped bass by recreational angling, provided that in no instance shall any rule or regulation authorize the taking or possession of striped bass which are less than 20 inches in length or greater than 26 inches total length but less than 40 inches total length. It is unlawful to take or possess striped bass unless the fish are whole with head on and are between 20 and 26 inches total length or 40 inches and greater total length.

(b) It is unlawful to take or possess more than one (1) striped bass each day.

(c) All aquaculture raised striped bass for sale in the commonwealth shall bear the tag of the grower or distributor of the fish.

(d) Whoever violates any rules or regulations made pursuant to this section shall be punished by a fine of not less than two hundred dollars for each fish taken or possessed for the first violation, five hundred dollars for each fish taken or possessed for the second violation and for each subsequent violation shall be fined one thousand dollars for each fish taken or possessed or imprisoned not more than sixty days or both. No part of any fine imposed for the taking or possession of any striped bass in violation of any such regulation shall be remitted.

(e)SECTION 2. The striped bass quota for commercial fishing provided to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission shall not be added to recreational fishing quotas. Said quota shall be set aside for conservation and the Director of the Division of Marine Fisheries shall use his best efforts in working with the Commission to see that the amount of this quota is not given to other

Interesting. Clearly states no commercial harvest and a Slot limit for Recs. The only thing missing is calling it a state gamefish - purely speculating that some that wrote the this would not want to call it a gamefish to give it some long term legitimacy.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Interesting. Clearly states no commercial harvest and a Slot limit for Recs. The only thing missing is calling it a state gamefish - purely speculating that some that wrote the this would not want to call it a gamefish to give it some long term legitimacy.

Whenever the topic has come up, this is what most people have wanted. I don't believe changes like this in only one state is going to make any difference though.

[PRBuzz]

My info came via a Stripers Forever campaign to make the striper a game fish and block commercial fishing. Here is the info provided on economics:

According to a recent professionally produced economic study, the economic impacts of the recreational fishery in Massachusetts total to $1.2 billion compared to only $24 million for the commercial fishery 50 times greater.

The recreational fishery is responsible for 10,986 full time equivalent jobs many are full time compared to just 524 full time equivalent jobs for the commercial fishery.

The Commercial fishery runs only a few days each week for a couple of months in the summer, and no one depends on striped bass for a full time commercial fishing livelihood.

66% of all commercial permit holders, approximately 2,400 fishermen, hold the permit but report zero landings.

The quality of striped bass fishing is declining rapidly, and the commercial targeting of the 75,000 large, breeding-sized female stripers - many more with the illegal fishery - is extremely damaging to the resource.

Among the New England states, Maine, New Hampshire, and Connecticut have already designated striped bass as game fish. It is time for Massachusetts to join these other states in protecting wild striped bass and enhancing the recreational industry that so many in Massachusetts depend on.

Stripers Forever and its more than 3,000 Massachusetts members urge you to support this important legislation.



Fred Jennings Ph.D, Massachusetts State Chair of Stripers Forever

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

My info came via a Stripers Forever campaign to make the striper a game fish and block commercial fishing. Here is the info provided on economics:

According to a recent professionally produced economic study, the economic impacts of the recreational fishery in Massachusetts total to $1.2 billion compared to only $24 million for the commercial fishery 50 times greater.

The recreational fishery is responsible for 10,986 full time equivalent jobs many are full time compared to just 524 full time equivalent jobs for the commercial fishery.

The Commercial fishery runs only a few days each week for a couple of months in the summer, and no one depends on striped bass for a full time commercial fishing livelihood.

66% of all commercial permit holders, approximately 2,400 fishermen, hold the permit but report zero landings.

The quality of striped bass fishing is declining rapidly, and the commercial targeting of the 75,000 large, breeding-sized female stripers - many more with the illegal fishery - is extremely damaging to the resource.

Among the New England states, Maine, New Hampshire, and Connecticut have already designated striped bass as game fish. It is time for Massachusetts to join these other states in protecting wild striped bass and enhancing the recreational industry that so many in Massachusetts depend on.

Stripers Forever and its more than 3,000 Massachusetts members urge you to support this important legislation.



Fred Jennings Ph.D, Massachusetts State Chair of Stripers Forever

As much as I want to see striped bass as a gamefish and a slot limit implemented... and I want that a lot.......this (i.e., Striper Forever's) economic argument is total garbage.

It is based on the ridiculous assumption that recreational fisherman would not spend their discretionary income on something else to enhance the quality of their lives if fishing were not an option. It also fails to account for the money saved by an increased food supply that includes striped bass...(more supply creates lower prices for all protein sources). Looked at that way, some level of commercial utilization almost always is necessary for a public resource to have maximal economic yield.

For unabashed selfish reasons I hope this bill passes, but if it does it will because one side's lies fooled more idiots than the other side's lies. Then again that seems to be the way our system works.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by numbskull

As much as I want to see striped bass as a gamefish and a slot limit implemented... and I want that a lot.......this (i.e., Striper Forever's) economic argument is total garbage.

It is based on the ridiculous assumption that recreational fisherman would not spend their discretionary income on something else to enhance the quality of their lives if fishing were not an option. It also fails to account for the money saved by an increased food supply that includes striped bass...(more supply creates lower prices for all protein sources). Looked at that way, some level of commercial utilization almost always is necessary for a public resource to have maximal economic yield.

For unabashed selfish reasons I hope this bill passes, but if it does it will because one side's lies fooled more idiots than the other side's lies. Then again that seems to be the way our system works.

Mostly agree.

And if I wasn't fishing I would not be spending as much on things that generate sales tax to the state (PR0n after all is online - just kidding ) I can also guarantee what ever activity replaced fishing would probably cost my wallet (and my marriage) less and the state more because I would be a miserable SOB.

[OX]

Originally Posted by numbskull

For unabashed selfish reasons I hope this bill passes, but if it does it will because one side's lies fooled more idiots than the other side's lies. Then again that seems to be the way our system works.

Like last November? StripersForever, more elitist loons trying to impose they're will on others using the gubmint. Think I'll go load another thousand rounds. It's coming!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by OX

Like last November? StripersForever, more elitist loons trying to impose they're will on others using the gubmint. Think I'll go load another thousand rounds. It's coming!

OX Good seeing you, err typing, crap, you know what I mean

[OX]

Originally Posted by JohnR

OX Good seeing you, err typing, crap, you know what I mean

You too JR. The British thought it was "CRAP" too, how'd they do? As for SF....bunch of clucks.......probably 80% of them couldn't catch a 20# fish. So they want legislation under the guise of conservation to give them more of an edge. Please................

[JohnnyD]

John, You're right. There is a possible benefit but it would be minuscule and not enough to make a marked benefit to the species' health.

I just can't see how strict guidelines in MA are going to help an animal that migrates all the way from VA.

Also, and this may be my misunderstanding of how the regs work, but won't this allow the commercial quota that would have gone to MA fisherman to be divvied amongst other commercial states?

[Pete F.]

1 fish 20"-26" or over 40" is the same as Maine.

[big jay]

If Stripers Forever and their limited budget can get a fisheries issue passed by the Massachusetts Legislature, Just wait until the Pew Foundation, PETA, The Humane Society and every other Tree Hugging Anti-Fishing group with REAL Money comes into the picture.

They are licking their chops for a precedent like this to be set.

You can agree or disagree with their objective, but their means will be the entire fishing communities undoing.

[Mr. Sandman]

Numb,

I doubt the food supply argument holds much water. There is not that much SB in the the total protein equation to amount to anything significant that would in turn effect price of other food. Besides, commercial demand could easily be met with farm raised fish.

This law would result in a substantial reduction of fish taken in MA and I support it. It is moving in the right direction of conservation. Going from 2 to 1 on recs (regardless of size) alone is huge. Taking the $ off the fishes head stops a lot of wrongful activity that we all know goes on and is unaccounted for. I support the game fish goal (along with a rec cut)l, it is the only way IMO to really cut through the crap and reduce the pressure on the fish.

Because the SB is largely a C&R activity among many (most?) recs now anyway, I don't think this will hurt the recs all that much nor the $ they bring into the economy.

I believe the $ recs wouldn't contribute if SB were completely halted is somewhat exaggerated but it is a huge number.
There is some real evidence that during the moratorium people didn't fish for SB nearly as often. Who knows what they did but they will probably do it again. My own personal observations during the moratorium was there were a lot fewer guys out fishing for bass in those years.
Given the reductions of Fluke, Seabass and now SB there could be a shift out of fishing altogether and into other activities...or maybe just go into the savings or pay off some debt. Further I strongly believe that higher fuel costs will aggravate the boating end of the equation as well. Lastly, I think having to buy a rec fishing lic will be "just one more thing" to stop a lot of newbies and familys from getting into sw fishing.

From my own personal (selfish)standpoint I strongly support gamefish move because there will not be the 60+ comm boats fishing day in and day out and day out at GH pounding the %$%$%$%$ out of the fish dumping tons of bunker and depleting the local stock as they take a healthy chunk of the quota from my backyard. (yes that means you RI guys too) I will tell you those fish off GH are like Pavlov's dogs..they are trained to come to the dinner bell which is rung every Sun, Tue, Wed and Thur.

I also believe (at least up my way) that stopping the comm fishing for bass will improve the bunker situation which is depleted with these bass guys taking thousands of bunker to support their comm bass habit.

I hope it passes but doubt it will. The comm guys have a strong voice in this state and they have filtered their way up the legislation tree like a bad disease. They usually get most of what they want. There is what I call the "NRA mentality" among comm fishermen. "I can't give up anything because the next thing you know you will be taking away my fishing rods" mentality. (referring to "can't give up armor piercing ammo and fully automatic weapons because the next thing you know we have to give up all our guns" thinking)

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

The comm guys have a strong voice in this state and they have filtered their way up the legislation tree like a bad disease. They usually get most of what they want. There is what I call the "NRA mentality" among comm fishermen. "I can't give up anything because the next thing you know you will be taking away my fishing rods" mentality. (referring to "can't give up armor piercing ammo and fully automatic weapons because the next thing you know we have to give up all our guns" thinking)

Once the angler registry/fishing license reaches its full potential, the comms are going the way of the buffalo hunter. End of story. I think within 3 years this will be the case as the comms will face a much larger and organized opposition.

[luds]

I would love to see the 40" slot raised to 45" or 47". Basically a trophy allowance. Leave the 20lb to high 30lb fish alone to breed. If a bass makes it to the high 30's I'd like to see them be given the chance to reproduce more if they survived that long. My own selficiousness kicks in at 40lb. A possible free Van Staal is to good to pass up and I get a rush out of trying to drag a 40 to my truck unnoticed.

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

One the angler registry/fishing license reaches its full potential, the comms are going the way of the buffalo hunter. End of story. I think within 3 years this will be the case as the comms will face a much larger and organized opposition.

your are exactly correct.. it is the evolution of things....

I never thought i'd see it this way... maybe I'm tired of the fight...

As youngster(14) I sold school bass and trapped eels to sell (another fish in decline) I thought i'd sell fish forever,as a young man with 4 growing kids those fish bought all the "going back to school" clothes for my kids each fall... i havent sold ( except tuna) a fish ( bass or cod) since 2004....I've watched things change through the years, fishing out of Newbury port, we had several fish dealers to sell our fish to.. now all gone, the few remaining draggers have their own trucks and go to gloucester and Boston, a few local places try and buy bass, but it's more trouble than it is worth.. another freedom lost...

I trapped fur all my life from the time i was able to walk, I was a member of mass trappers and for years, we fought the good fight.. but money and ill informed people won out... Mass eventually ended all practical trapping...once again another freedom lost..

it's coming guy's, maybe not this year, but eventualy, you will no longer be able to sell bass in Mass....I never thought i couldn't hitch up my boat in dead winter and go cod fishing.. they took that away too.. Now the boat is covered and winterized in October..C&R and game fish status is inevitable..

Maryland had the right idea ( in theory) years ago allowing only the small fish to be harvested, thus saving the breeders... it makes perfect sense... I like the slot limit Idea witht the trophy clause.. thus you make a decision... do I want to eat it or catch a wall hanger...

Just one mans opinion that has spent most of his 53 years on this planet fishing, hunting and trapping... and watching it slowly go the way of the buffalo...

tight lines all
Roc..

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

Maryland had the right idea ( in theory) years ago allowing only the small fish to be harvested, thus saving the breeders... it makes perfect sense... I like the slot limit Idea witht the trophy clause.. thus you make a decision... do I want to eat it or catch a wall hanger...

Maryland saves the breeders that make it into their waters to spawn. Virgina allows them to be slaughtered every winter/spring as they school up and stage to go up the Chessie. These are strictly rec boaters doing this.

NY closes the Hudson for the pre-spawn staging and the start of the spawn. I wish Virginia would do the same.

[agsurfr]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

Numb,

I doubt the food supply argument holds much water. There is not that much SB in the the total protein equation to amount to anything significant that would in turn effect price of other food. Besides, commercial demand could easily be met with farm raised fish.

This law would result in a substantial reduction of fish taken in MA and I support it. It is moving in the right direction of conservation. Going from 2 to 1 on recs (regardless of size) alone is huge. Taking the $ off the fishes head stops a lot of wrongful activity that we all know goes on and is unaccounted for. I support the game fish goal (along with a rec cut)l, it is the only way IMO to really cut through the crap and reduce the pressure on the fish.

Because the SB is largely a C&R activity among many (most?) recs now anyway, I don't think this will hurt the recs all that much nor the $ they bring into the economy.

I believe the $ recs wouldn't contribute if SB were completely halted is somewhat exaggerated but it is a huge number.
There is some real evidence that during the moratorium people didn't fish for SB nearly as often. Who knows what they did but they will probably do it again. My own personal observations during the moratorium was there were a lot fewer guys out fishing for bass in those years.
Given the reductions of Fluke, Seabass and now SB there could be a shift out of fishing altogether and into other activities...or maybe just go into the savings or pay off some debt. Further I strongly believe that higher fuel costs will aggravate the boating end of the equation as well. Lastly, I think having to buy a rec fishing lic will be "just one more thing" to stop a lot of newbies and familys from getting into sw fishing.

From my own personal (selfish)standpoint I strongly support gamefish move because there will not be the 60+ comm boats fishing day in and day out and day out at GH pounding the %$%$%$%$ out of the fish dumping tons of bunker and depleting the local stock as they take a healthy chunk of the quota from my backyard. (yes that means you RI guys too) I will tell you those fish off GH are like Pavlov's dogs..they are trained to come to the dinner bell which is rung every Sun, Tue, Wed and Thur.

I also believe (at least up my way) that stopping the comm fishing for bass will improve the bunker situation which is depleted with these bass guys taking thousands of bunker to support their comm bass habit.

I hope it passes but doubt it will. The comm guys have a strong voice in this state and they have filtered their way up the legislation tree like a bad disease. They usually get most of what they want. There is what I call the "NRA mentality" among comm fishermen. "I can't give up anything because the next thing you know you will be taking away my fishing rods" mentality. (referring to "can't give up armor piercing ammo and fully automatic weapons because the next thing you know we have to give up all our guns" thinking)

Sandman,


Couldn't agree more about the fishing on MV. The use (I mean abuse) of the baitfish is huge too. We want to nurture the SB fishery, we better start thinking about their forage or the increasing lack of it.

Don'y know much about the bill, but I hope it passes.

Curious point, but it is my understanding that the CT legislature just voted to allow some percentage of unused quota from 1 year to roll over to the next for the Comms. Here's the perplexing bit, CT has no Comm fishery so they voted to let our neighbors to catch more of our fish. Can't really see how this benefits CT fishermen. Idiots...

Fair winds

ab

[BasicPatrick]

Good Morning Viet Nam...

Before I start...there are a few threads on this exact bill from the past year so search away boys. Search under Stripers Forever and Rep Matt Patrick.

Here is what I can tell you as I am very much up to speed on this one.

This is the Rep. Matt Patrick of Falmouth aka Stripers Forever Legislation and yes, it has legs. I am pretty sure Stripers Forever got a green grant to get this legislation passed and I know they have a lobbyist, organizers and have been working a professional political campaign strategy.

The hearing before the MA Joint Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture and the Environment mentioned in the article was bounced around between Dec 1 and Dec 15 and now has been postponed until someitme in January. The given reason is that some legislators that wanted to tesify had scheduling issues. I am aware that there are legislators going to testify both for and against this bill. I have learned that Stripers Forever is bussing people in for the hearing. Once again this bill does have some legs.

The MA Striped Bass Association voted many months ago to oppose this legislation. Although we feel there should be a robust public debate on S-B as a gamefish and regulations to reduce mortality, the number one reason to oppose this legislation is that the legislature should not get into managing fisheries. Can you see it now. If this bill passes there will be legislation filed for every single fish in MA Waters. This is how it is done in Virginia and that system does not work. Whomever posted about the enviros and commercials having lots of money and waiting for a prescedent was dead nuts correct.

Another reason to oppose the bill is that in the eyes of the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission Striped Bass Management Board and their scientists this bill will not conserve any Striped Bass. The current managment plan wuld redistribute the commercial quota unless MA chose to harvest these fish in another manner (ie, the NJ third trophy fish) and that is unlikely.

I will state that I do not think many of the recreational organizations are going to go to war on this bill so you rod and reel commercial guys better get into this fight and fast.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Another reason to oppose the bill is that in the eyes of the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission Striped Bass Management Board and their scientists this bill will not conserve any Striped Bass. The current managment plan wuld redistribute the commercial quota unless MA chose to harvest these fish in another manner (ie, the NJ third trophy fish) and that is unlikely.

Very true, but this new legislation is just a trojan horse. Down the road I can't believe with the impending sw registry/license the rec fishers take a greater position of power, thus influencing the outcome of our fisheries regs to a much greater degree...not saying this is necessarily good, but its iminent.

[CowHunter]

I cant understand why on earth anybody would want a slot limit and think that it is a good thing. They did it here in NJ for a few years and wiped out a generation of resident fish. Didnt work, its gone but the damage is done. Anybody was able to go out in the early spring and clam up a 100 or so Slot fish. it was amazing how much that changed in a year and then two. You had headboats from NY and NJ with 60-80 people on em pounding on these fish, then charter boats, and rec guys. Every boat in the bay was anchoring up and clamming and then chunking when the bunker arrived. Slot fish dont promote catch and realease, people catching slots are killing and eating em. Means alot more people killing...Raritan bay is now like the dead sea All those resident fish are wiped out. People up in New england cant imagine what pressure there is here. Makes mass commercial look like me surfcasting block...... Here we have the most densly populated area and you cant imagine the pressure on fish. Thats OK though, because now that the bay is dead we saved the bunker and the bunker made a huge comeback... They are up and down the NJ coast for miles. An easy bait supply is a good thing for our striped bass, I think much of the opposite. When everybody has easy access to bunker anybody could could go out and snag and drop. Pretty funny when you have Hundreds of boats and hundreds of "Surffishermen" snagging and dropping every single day. Headboats from Staten Island, Brooklyn, NY and NJ targeting the transitory fish moving up the coast. These are the Big fish. Well the fishery really has been getting worse and worse every year. Funny to see miles and miles of bunker schools with nothing on em. Things change alot in a year or two. I dont care what anybody says, numbers are down, way down and thats up the coast from North carolina to Maine. I know because I fish up and down the coast, areas that used to hold fish dont. No matter how you cut it there are fewer and fewer fish every season. I know how much harder and smarter I have to fish.... Mass Can be like NJ, put in a slot limit, Sell the commercial fishery out for a single dollar a fish and call it a bonus tag program with an endless supply of tags.Everyone I know gets bonus tags.... Guys going out 4 to a boat and keeping 16 fish a trip. Hell I know, I have clients come on my boat and do it all the time. In fact I kill way more fish a season here in NJ on my charters than I do in Mass. Commercial 2008 / 11,500lbs 18 days, 2009 / 8,600lbs 14 days.... I wont even write whats killed on my charters. In fact, I dont get any just catch and release trips. I know so many people that reuse those tags and so the reporting season is all BS, at least in Mass the commercial fishery is regulated. These people who say they are trying to save the striped bass fishery really have no clue, they are idiots. They Point the finger at Mass commercial, rhode island commercial. I bet more fish are killed in NJ April, May, June, October, November just poundage wise recreationally then Mass and Rhode Island combined Commercial and recreational. Who keeps tally on what is getting killed here. I dont have any catch reports to fill out here Charter wise or recreational. It all BS. Gotta love now how the shut the Fluke down, all the boats that were targeting fluke are now targeting stripers. Striped Bass donta stand a chance in the next few years. Guys should see the Damage is done in VA / NC in the winter when the whole Biomass is Concentrated. How that fishery fell of a cliff. Hey, Maybe we can get the eez opened up to 12 miles like VA is pushing since the inside fish are wiped... Its gonna be ugly in the next few years. Should just have a 1 fish limit at 36" OR Better like they did in the mratorioum. Mass commercial stayed open and look at the comeback the fish made.Get used to it being like buzzards bay in the summer, or the rhode Island Surf in October / November. How things have changed in short time. Sorry for the rambling... from our government down, people in charge who dont have a clue....