Please break this down for me with ways to fix.

[JohnR]

Please break this chart down for me with ways to fix it. I would love to see real, workable solutions from folks on the left and the right, not the usual rhetorical assault . A man can dream, right?

Left chart is revenue, right chart is expenditures.

[fishpoopoo]

Easy fix.

Repeal social security, and medicare/medicaid.

Sooner or later, it's all gonna blow up.

[fishbones]

Make it economically feasible for businesses to operate here in the US. If we could bring even a small percentage of manufacturing that's done overseas back to the US, we could put a lot of people back to work. That, in turn would create a larger tax base and less money going to unemployment and social programs.

What do I know, though. I'm an idiot.

[Slipknot]

for me what i see right off the bat, is unemployment insurance. I see no income for that, I guess unemployment tax taken in should be enough to cover the unemployment check people receive and cover the insurance. if not it just adds to national debt. 220 billion short right now, it's only gonna get worse.

stop allowing businesses to leave the country by fixing what they did to allow it to happen in the first place.

pretty huge deficit i see

as more people work harder to make less, the income tax will only go down

[Pete F.]

I used to be pretty conservative
On the income side 81% of the revenue comes from pretty regressive forms of taxation. The taxpayers who can most afford to pay (I need to duck now) can escape paying thru the various loopholes in the tax code. What work do the wealthiest 5% of the people in this country do to earn their income?
On the expenditure side if we look at the costs we should have the best health care in the world (one would think that we would live the longest, have the best infant survival rates, etc) All our elders would be taken care of and everyone would be employed.
Maybe it is time we look at what other countrys in the developed world do.
We could get rid of all the "entitlements" and really join the 3rd world.
Now the other side of how things have changed.
When I was a child both parents did not have to work to pay the families way. The families had time to help others (friends, neighbors, relatives) who were less fortunate.
A college education was not mandatory to hold an entry level job.
I wonder if I will end up moving to a third world country so I can afford to enjoy my old age.
I usually stay out of this.

[PRBuzz]

We are all

[buckman]

Do you have a pre-Obama expenditure chart?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by buckman

Do you have a pre-Obama expenditure chart?

I don't think that much matters. This did not happen overnight.

[striperman36]

where is the print more money solution?

[JohnnyD]

Eliminate Medicaid payments to illegals, random drug testing for anyone receiving a check from the government through any program they have not paid into (keeps SS safe), raise the standards for how "Disability" is defined (alcoholics should not be getting social security due to disability)... there's a huge reduction in Medicaid, Unemployment and SS right there.

5% cut to Defense (Cut from 20% to 19%)
20% cut to Discretionary spending

Maybe get out of the two wars that don't get news any more and refrain from military involvement in Libya.

[Backbeach Jake]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

Easy fix.

Repeal social security, and medicare/medicaid.

Sooner or later, it's all gonna blow up.

No need to repeal, just stop dipping into it. Also stop paying non-contributors.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Eliminate Medicaid payments to illegals, random drug testing for anyone receiving a check from the government through any program they have not paid into (keeps SS safe), raise the standards for how "Disability" is defined (alcoholics should not be getting social security due to disability)... there's a huge reduction in Medicaid, Unemployment and SS right there.

5% cut to Defense (Cut from 20% to 19%)
20% cut to Discretionary spending

Maybe get out of the two wars that don't get news any more and refrain from military involvement in Libya.

I like it, JD. I would add Social Security card needed to apply for all entitlements.

Cut out foreign aid, except for humanitarian aid.
We have done more than enough to help other countries and little if any is appreciated.

Our original purpose going into Afghanistan was to knock out the Taliban
training camps. That's been done and if, or as, they return use satellite images
drones and special forces to knock them out again.

[BranfordJeff]

Looks easy to me. 60% is give-aways to buy votes from lazy scum, 80% is stolen from the hard work of regular folks.

I'd say a 2-year limit on "entitlements" (welfare, or as it used to be called, relief) in a row, with 3-year max lifetime cap. If you have kids, you lose them if you can't pay for the, they become wads of the state. Tough crap, sorry. See ya.

Kill entitlements, let people keep what they earn, win-win!

[PRBuzz]

Billions in Bloat Uncovered in Beltway
WSJ on-line:
The U.S. government has 15 different agencies overseeing food-safety laws, more than 20 separate programs to help the homeless and 80 programs for economic development.

These are a few of the findings in a massive study of overlapping and duplicative programs that cost taxpayers billions of dollars each year, according to the Government Accountability Office.

A report from the nonpartisan GAO, to be released Tuesday, compiles a list of redundant and potentially ineffective federal programs, and it could serve as a template for lawmakers in both parties as they move to cut federal spending and consolidate programs to reduce the deficit. Sen. Tom Coburn (R., Okla.), who pushed for the report, estimated it identifies between $100 billion and $200 billion in duplicative spending. The GAO didn't put a specific figure on the spending overlap.

The GAO examined numerous federal agencies, including the departments of defense, agriculture and housing and urban development, and pointed to instances where different arms of the government should be coordinating or consolidating efforts to save taxpayers' money.

The agency found 82 federal programs to improve teacher quality; 80 to help disadvantaged people with transportation; 47 for job training and employment; and 56 to help people understand finances, according to a draft of the report reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

Instances of ineffective and unfocused federal programs can lead to a mishmash of occasionally arbitrary policies and rules, the report said. It recommends merging or consolidating a number of programs to both save money and make the government more efficient.

"Reducing or eliminating duplication, overlap, or fragmentation could potentially save billions of tax dollars annually and help agencies provide more efficient and effective services," the report said.

There have been multiple efforts to cull the number of federal programs in recent years, but they often run into opposition from lawmakers in both parties who rush to defend individual spending provisions. In fact, GAO's recommendations are often ignored or postponed by federal agencies and lawmakers, particularly when they could require difficult political votes.

The report says policy makers should consider creating a single food-safety agency because of a number of redundancies. The Food and Drug Administration makes sure that chicken eggs are "safe, wholesome, and properly labeled" while a division of the Department of Agriculture "is responsible for the safety of eggs processed into egg products."

Spokespeople for the Department of Agriculture and FDA pointed to the Obama administration's creation of the Food Safety Working Group, which works to better coordinate the government's regulators.

The report says there are 18 federal programs that spent a combined $62.5 billion in 2008 on food and nutrition assistance, but little is known about the effectiveness of 11 of these programs because they haven't been well studied.

The report took particular aim at government funding for surface transportation, including the building of roads and other projects, which the administration has made a major part of its push to update the country's infrastructure.

The report said five divisions within the Department of Transportation account for 100 different programs that fund things like highways, rail projects and safety programs.

One program that funnels transportation funds to the states "functions as a cash-transfer general-purpose grant program, rather than as a tool for pursuing a cohesive national transportation policy," the report said. Similarly, it chided the government over encouraging federal agencies to purchase plug-in hybrid vehicles while having policies that agencies reduce electricity consumption. It said government agencies have purchased numerous vehicles that run on alternative fuels only to find many gas stations don't sell alternative fuels. This has led government agencies to turn around and request waivers so they didn't have to use alternative fuels.

A spokesperson for the Department of Transportation said the president's budget for fiscal year 2012 "proposes to cut waste, inefficiency and bureaucracy by consolidating over 55 separate highway programs into five core programs, and by merging six transit programs into two programs."

On teacher quality, the report identified 82 programs that often have similar descriptions and goals and are spread across 10 federal agencies, including the Department of Education, the Department of Energy and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Nine of these programs are linked to science, technology, engineering and mathematics. Fifty-three of the programs are relatively small, receiving $50 million or less, "and many have their own separate administrative processes."

The GAO highlighted 80 different economic development programs at the Department of Commerce, HUD, Department of Agriculture and Small Business Administration, that spent a combined $6.5 billion last year and often overlapped. For example, the four agencies combined to have 52 different programs that fund "entrepreneurial efforts," 35 programs for infrastructure, and 26 programs for telecommunications. It said 60% of the programs fund only one or two activities, making them "the most likely to overlap because many of them can only fund the same limited types of activities."

These are a few of the findings in a massive study of overlapping and duplicative programs that cost taxpayers billions of dollars each year, according to the Government Accountability Office.

A report from the nonpartisan GAO, to be released Tuesday, compiles a list of redundant and potentially ineffective federal programs, and it could serve as a template for lawmakers in both parties as they move to cut federal spending and consolidate programs to reduce the deficit. Sen. Tom Coburn (R., Okla.), who pushed for the report, estimated it identifies between $100 billion and $200 billion in duplicative spending. The GAO didn't put a specific figure on the spending overlap.

The report took aim at several military programs, which could prove thorny because many lawmakers from both parties are wary to cut defense spending. It said there were 130,000 military and government medical professionals, 59 Defense Department hospitals and hundreds of clinics that could benefit from consolidating administrative, management and clinical functions.

For example, it said the government "may have developed duplicate" programs to counter improvised explosive devices, with the Marine Corps and the Army paying to develop similar "mine rollers." The Marine mine roller costs $85,000, and the Army mine roller costs $77,000 to $225,000. "Officials disagree about which system is most effective, and [the Pentagon] has not conducted comparative testing and evaluation of the two systems," the report said. The Pentagon didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

The GAO study was required by a provision inserted by Sen. Coburn into a law that raised the federal borrowing limit last year. This report is the first produced in response to the provision.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by BranfordJeff

Looks easy to me. 60% is give-aways to buy votes from lazy scum, 80% is stolen from the hard work of regular folks.

Glad to know that when I'm old enough to collect Social Security I can finally be a part of "Lazy Scum" Crowd.

I'll also be happy to tell my Father that since he retired after all those years he worked and now he's getting Social Security and Medicaid....that all he's earned in the form of respect is the title of "Lazy Scum".....I mean that is his reward after 60 plus years of being "Hard Working, Regular Folk"

Also.....I better make sure I don't get Laid off......Cuz "POOF" I'm Instantly Lazy Scum.

[Piscator]

The scary piece is that this is just the federal level. When you include State and Local Government, the picture is that much worse.
I feel that we need fundamental and cultural changes. We need to stop our increasing reliability on the Government. People need to look in the mirror and take ownership of themselves and their families. People these days look to the Government with their hand out expecting a monetary solution. I know someone who has been on disability for “depression” since they were 38 years old and they are now in their 60’s, are you kidding me? These are the examples that make the system not work. People today need to start saving for their "golden years" and not expect or rely on the government to take care of them 100%. Government Healthcare is also not sustainable in its current form.

Our Government is in serious debt and they continue to spend. Any responsible person would not act like that in their own personal life or business. The Government is irresponsible to run like this. What strikes me is that the Federal “Net Interest Payment” is just under $200 Billion (probably paid to China). Our Interest Payment is more than the Corporate Income Tax revenue. It is almost ½ of the Unemployment Expenditures. Craziness……… Our Government has a serious spending problem……………………

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Piscator

The scary piece is that this is just the federal level. When you include State and Local Government, the picture is that much worse.
I feel that we need fundamental and cultural changes. We need to stop our increasing reliability on the Government. People need to look in the mirror and take ownership of themselves and their families. People these days look to the Government with their hand out expecting a monetary solution. I know someone who has been on disability for “depression” since they were 38 years old and they are now in their 60’s, are you kidding me? These are the examples that make the system not work. People today need to start saving for their "golden years" and not expect or rely on the government to take care of them 100%.……………………

Forty five States are in the Red with only 5 in the Black.

Over spending has accumulated over the last 30 years from the
family through every level of government to the point where we
are at the day of reckoning.

Every thing needs to be cut across the board without exception
requiring sacrifice by all until spending is under control.

Credit has ruined this country, both personal and government.
Used to be you paid yourself first by saving 10% of your
paycheck.
I would venture to say 80% of people couldn't
afford to do that anymore due to their credit debt and the, "I want it, and I want it now"mentality.

Manana is here.

[Jim in CT]

Social Security is an easy fix...

(1) raise the age at which you can collect (no choice, has to be done)
(2) make it means-tested. super rich folks would get less or nothing. I don't htink that's fair, but the fact is the $$ ain't there.
(3) allow for privatization, and invest some of that money in vehicle sthat will get better returns than t-bills.

Medicare - Go after frauds very diligently; enact serious tort reform, which does away wirth frivolous lawsuits, and doesn't force doctors to run unnecessary tests as a measure of "defensive medicine"..

Welfare - do what Clinton did, tell some of 'em to get back to work. And no one gets a check for doing NOTHING, make 'em all do some work for someone, or make them go back to school or learn a trade.

Get rid of the NEA. Fat cats on Park Avenue can pay full price for their opera tickets, they don't need subsidies from us.

That's a start.

[justplugit]

The Spending Reduction Act Bill has some ideas to cut
2.5 Trillion in 10 years.

Immediate cuts, $125 Billion cut back spending to 2008 levels and repeal
remaining Obama stimulus package

Fiscal year starting Oct. 1st. cut non defense discretionary spending to 2006
levels and freeze till 2021. This will save taxpayers $2.3 Trillion, attrition will
trim 15% of the civilian Federal work force and no automatic raises for the first
5 years.

Target more than 100 separate budget items, including duplicated
programs ,saving $1.3 billion annually, and decrease Federal travel budget
by %50 saving $7.5 billion annually.

End Freddie and Fannie, saving $376 billion in 10 years.

There were a few others, but sounds like some good areas to start cutting.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Glad to know that when I'm old enough to collect Social Security I can finally be a part of "Lazy Scum" Crowd.

I'll also be happy to tell my Father that since he retired after all those years he worked and now he's getting Social Security and Medicaid....that all he's earned in the form of respect is the title of "Lazy Scum".....I mean that is his reward after 60 plus years of being "Hard Working, Regular Folk"

Also.....I better make sure I don't get Laid off......Cuz "POOF" I'm Instantly Lazy Scum.

Hopefully in 25 years there will be a Social Security. You've been paying in and just maybe the poliweenies in DC will not have spent it away.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Hopefully in 25 years there will be a Social Security. You've been paying in and just maybe the poliweenies in DC will not have spent it away.

If they keep taking away the SS cost of living stipend, like they have
for the last 2 years, you may be able to buy a few beers with it
after being on it for 20 years.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Hopefully in 25 years there will be a Social Security. You've been paying in and just maybe the poliweenies in DC will not have spent it away.

We can only hope....but, sadly I ain't betting the farm on it.

I was more upset at the fact that these aren't "Entitlement Programs" Like Welfare where people do absolutely nothing and collect a check.

Social Security and Medicaid are programs that people pay into there entire life so when they retire they have them.....to call somebody a Lazy Scum for using them after paying into them was pretty low IMHO

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Social Security is an easy fix...

(1) raise the age at which you can collect (no choice, has to be done)
(2) make it means-tested. super rich folks would get less or nothing. I don't htink that's fair, but the fact is the $$ ain't there.
(3) allow for privatization, and invest some of that money in vehicle sthat will get better returns than t-bills.

Medicare - Go after frauds very diligently; enact serious tort reform, which does away wirth frivolous lawsuits, and doesn't force doctors to run unnecessary tests as a measure of "defensive medicine"..

Welfare - do what Clinton did, tell some of 'em to get back to work. And no one gets a check for doing NOTHING, make 'em all do some work for someone, or make them go back to school or learn a trade.

Get rid of the NEA. Fat cats on Park Avenue can pay full price for their opera tickets, they don't need subsidies from us.

That's a start.

That is a pretty good start however I strongly disagree with no 3. While it would be a good concept to raise the rate of return on money paid into social security the idea of turning it over to financial services sector/Wall Street is just asking for, and imho guaranteeing, trouble.
On the Medicare front I would treble the existing penalties for fraud and also add the proviso that similar to the narcotics laws that allow for asset forfeiture upon conviction. I would prosecute everyone doctors, nurses, aides and office staff. Also there would be cash rewards/immunity for whistleblowers.

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I was more upset at the fact that these aren't "Entitlement Programs" Like Welfare where people do absolutely nothing and collect a check.

Social Security and Medicaid are programs that people pay into there entire life so when they retire they have them.....to call somebody a Lazy Scum for using them after paying into them was pretty low IMHO

Yea, and try to tell a red blooded Republican that their "entitlements" need to be cut to help balance the books

I think a real bi-partisan solution would include steps to reduce fraud and outright waste, but also recognize that many government programs do benefit society as a whole. I'm all for the NEA, National Parks etc...

The danger is in killing too many small (and potentially highly beneficial) programs for political reasons while the real issues are avoided...again for politics.

I think there also is a net benefit from programs like SS that while not super efficient do provide a vital safety net. It's been adjusted in the past to help ensure fiscal health and we're going to see benefit cuts to keep it healthy for the future. Killing it, or diverting a large % of funds into private programs might cause more harm than good.

Medicare/Medicaid are a real conundrum. All these retiring baby boomers are going to demand that the latest and most expensive medical technology is available to keep them alive well past their expiration date. Even today most expenses seem to go towards the end of a persons life. The Health Care Bill certainly didn't fix the problem, but perhaps now can create an atmosphere to really address it. A good start would be to agree on three principals to base legislation on moving forward. Outside of tort reform (<200B savings) and interstate competition I'm not sure the GOP really has any good ideas. These would both help but aren't going to solve the root issues.

And for all those who like to whine about socialization the fact remains we're still completely beholden to corporate interests.

There's certainly room to trim defense spending, but a better policy where we don't get involved in fights we can't win or that don't directly support National interests would be a good start.

A LOT of defense spending goes into the black hole of the defense industry as appropriated by Congress into their districts to win votes rather than by mission need. 20% savings here should be a no brainer.

Perhaps most importantly, we can cut expenses across the board, but tax increases are still going to be required to balance the budget. There really is a ton of money out there which is a product of investment, risk taking and a productive US worker. But it's not in the hands of the poor or middle class.

So you need to raise taxes, cut benefits and eliminate what can be identified as obvious waste. If it were only that simple

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, and try to tell a red blooded Republican that their "entitlements" need to be cut to help balance the books


So you need to raise taxes, cut benefits and eliminate what can be identified as obvious waste. If it were only that simple

-spence

I didn't know that red blooded Republicans had their own entitlements.
Maybe I need to declare a party.

It really is that simple.
The only problem is every one wants the the other guy to make the sacrifices.

As Patriotic Americans we all need to make WW II like sacrifices and see this debacle through.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

The only problem is every one wants the the other guy to make the sacrifices.

This seems to pretty much be the issue.

-spence

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by justplugit

As Patriotic Americans we all need to make WW II like sacrifices and see this debacle through.

Tell that to the pols that passed the Bush tax cuts on both sides.

Post WWII, the tax rate on the top 1% was something like 90%, and they can't get these cuts to pass?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Tell that to the pols that passed the Bush tax cuts on both sides.

Post WWII, the tax rate on the top 1% was something like 90%, and they can't get these cuts to pass?

Yes, it was, so we can't go back to that? hmmm.

Spence, what's my expiration date? I can read the label.

[spence]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Yes, it was, so we can't go back to that? hmmm.

I think the point is that we've raised taxes to pay for wars several times and it doesn't seem to have killed us.

Spence, what's my expiration date? I can read the label.

Not sure, but you're chances of getting killed by a bear would probably have gone up had you not gotten than knee fixed

-spence

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by spence

I think the point is that we've raised taxes to pay for wars several times and it doesn't seem to have killed us.


Not sure, but you're chances of getting killed by a bear would probably have gone up had you not gotten than knee fixed

-spence

Yes, I agree about raising rates, Personal Income Tax rates are at historical low levels.

I'm thinkin coyotes on the Island, I stop to rig a new eel and I get taken out by the pack down by NEB