Hyrdo Orientation

[Mojo7]

I just turned my first couple dannys and want to cut the lip slot before I cut off the square ends. If I hyrdo orientate before I cut the ends off will I get an accurate reading?

[ProfessorM]

IMO probably not but you can try one after you cut off the ends and see how close you got
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[spence]

Do you need to do this? I mean, if the plug is symmetrical and the lip slot perpendicular to the belly weight shouldn't it always be close?

-spence

[WoodyCT]

ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY with a Danny.
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[Chunkah]

Cut 'em off Mojo.

[stripermaineiac]

LOL Do you really think that Pickney,Musso,Gibbs,Gags or any of the others that make them do this? All those Dannys work great and have caught some awsome fish. Bob Pond pretty much thought it was a waste of time as no 2 peices of wood are alike and the time to do so is so cost prohibative that it's nuts to do it. Remember the fish like the one that stands out not the one that fits in the most. Injured bait gets hit ist it's one of the reason we all try to acheive the action or wiggle in the plugs we make an use. Ron

[ProfessorM]

Donny Musso told me he did and it was important in a conversation George and I had with him last year. Always with darters he said after G told him he goes perpendicular with the wood grain in darters for lip strength. He said to him you don't orient them with how the blank floats ? I'll bet he did it to most all his swimming stuff.

[stripermaineiac]

Yup Paul with Darters but with anything with a metal lip its a waste of time as the lip controls the action along with it's placement. kinda like where you place the eye on a darter as far as how deep it will dig.Until the last few yrs not a lot of anglers used them. so the numbers weren't cost prohibitive. One of the reason that most went from wood to plastic on darters. Even with the Tatoos you still hear loads of compaints due to inconcistancy. I heave a couple dozen and at least 1/3 don't track well.I did get one word of wisdom on darters from an oooolllddd timer. The tighter the grain on the wood the heavier it is. Tight grain goes on the bottom. not sure how true it is as my 6 darters still don't pass the test.I think I used the rong wood.LOL

[BigFish]

Whatever makes people happy go for it! My belief is it is a waste of time and effort! I talked with an engineer friend of mine and he agreed......after adding belly weight (if needed) and then swivels, split rings (if needed) and hooks it shifts the balance of the weight of the bottom automatically......that becomes the pivot point and that is where you get your action from. Think about it. Just my .02 cents worth and in this economy....I owe you money!

PS-I have never ever seen a weighted, rigged plug body go belly up with the hardware facing the sky? Its always on the bottom.

[BigFish]

Also consider this? You hydro orient your bodies....THEN you drill your swivel holes (or two) your eye holes etc.?? This will alter your previous findings as you have removed wood and altered the way the body will act in the water?

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Mojo7

I just turned my first couple dannys and want to cut the lip slot before I cut off the square ends. If I hyrdo orientate before I cut the ends off will I get an accurate reading?

No, not really. I don't see how it will be accurate but it might be close.

I have had large pikies turn sideways after hardware and hooks, I am talking sitting in the water not moving. The answer to that one is don't use ayc with any kind of knots. The density of wood varies enough to effect how it sits in the water. A plug that will end up having a lot of belly weight or heavy hooks may be able to overcome a small difference but it's not going to make up for a very out of balance piece of wood. In my opinion, I agree with Donny Musso that it is important to hydro orientate, I spoke with him a long time last year and that man has a lot of experience in both plug building and fishing.
I would seal darters first once the body is spun, then hydro orientate, then once the top is found cut the slopes and mouth, seal again and try that. Sealer can add weight absorbtion unevenly and effect it also. The only real way to be consistant is use plastic. Darters are a lot of work. You can take a chance with them also, it might work out 80% of the time. I have had luck with a shallow darter made of ayc being careful with choosing the blank for it and I also put a shot of lead in the middle since that plug I make pretty fat, that helps keep it up higher for close to shore shallow spots.

[Mr. Krinkle]

I think it does make a difference, especially if you not weighting it. I make some unweighted swimming plugs and find it absolutely necessary to get the desired action.

[Grapenuts]

Think about this....are you making 10 or a thousand...if only 10 and your putting all that work into them, why not go for the gold.....making a thousand to sell..AFI...hope for the best skipping a step.

[stripermaineiac]

Well I'll say this. You guys that have mastered the wooden Darter have all my respect. Someday I'll get them down but till then I bow to you on them.I know how to fish them and have a load of them that have landed some very nice fish.

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by Grapenuts

Think about this....are you making 10 or a thousand...if only 10 and your putting all that work into them, why not go for the gold.....making a thousand to sell..AFI...hope for the best skipping a step.

That explains why I do it. It takes so little time that it really seems beneficial to do so, can't hurt. If I was selling than I would rethink and can understand why it wouldn't get priority.

[GattaFish]

Well.. maybe one of you darter masters will eventually make 8in + and 4 1/2 oz darters and offer them up for a swap of some sort.....

[ProfessorM]

I am far from a master but don't make me have to try one as I am a glutton for punishment. I'll put it on the list that has no end in sight. Probably won't be the first to try it but I will try it for you. To be honest I find the darter to be one of the more enjoyable plugs to make once you get your fixtures down pat. It is a somewhat precision plug if that is possible in the realm of plugs as you really have to be precise in your angles which is where your fixtures come in but once you get your fixtures down and you are able to repeat your plugs via your fixtures it is basically 2 cuts and some hand work in my case. The turning part is very simple. Now don't get me wrong as you will have some duds and fishing them productively is something I still got lots of learnin to go but the stigma of building them I think is overblown. It is a challenge but who doesn't like a challenge and being stubborn helps too.

[WoodyCT]

So picking up a blank, placing it in a bowl of water, looking at it for 1 second, removing it from said water, marking it's 'top' with a pencil, and setting the body aside is "time consuming" to the point of being "cost prohibitive"?

It is the mark of a craftsman that he goes the extra mile, or inch in this case, to ensure his product is consistent in form and function.

An extra 15 seconds per plug won't kill anyone.
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[Diggin Jiggin]

I've done it both ways, and I don't think I've really noticed a difference in performance.

But for me, it is many times easier to work with the turned blanks if they still have the square ends on them. I'm not using a duplicator so even though my blanks are very close, they are not identical. Which makes it more difficult with the jigs.

For me just leaving the square ends makes everything a lot simpler. They are easier to drill, easier to cut the 45 on the table saw and easier to lay on its side on the bandsaw. To do that with round blanks without the ends you have to have identical blanks and very nice and accurate fixtures.

I do remember reading a thread a couple of years ago about someone who hydro orientatated after priming, and adjusted how the blanks sat just by spraying an extra coat of primer on one side or the other.

[Mojo7]

Thanks for the help guys.