New Hate Crimes Law? - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

wheresmy50 · 10-22-2008, 04:35 PM

Rant alert

Someone now wants to make it a "hate crime" to attack the homeless.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...te-cnn-partner

"Hate crimes" legislation is a good thing only because it allows republicans to return fire when democrats accuse them of passing unconstitutional legislation. There is nothing that would make the founding fathers puke faster than this garbage that literally legislates what you are allowed to think.

Counterpoints?

BigFish · 10-22-2008, 04:39 PM

Isn't it a "hate crime" when you attack anyone????

Its done with malice???

Slingah · 10-22-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Isn't it a "hate crime" when you attack anyone????

Its done with malice???

Im pretty sure it is if you attack a particular person....black, gay...etc.

BigFish · 10-22-2008, 04:54 PM

If I attack a white guy...its not a hate crime??? I am poking fun at the entire scenario of "Hate Crime Laws"........its funny because if I do attack a white guy, and me being white, it would not be called a hate crime.......just something to do to pass the time I guess!

The Iceman 6 · 10-22-2008, 04:57 PM

I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!

Slingah · 10-22-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

If I attack a white guy...its not a hate crime??? I am poking fun at the entire scenario of "Hate Crime Laws"........its funny because if I do attack a white guy, and me being white, it would not be called a hate crime.......just something to do to pass the time I guess!

in your case, yes....you hate everybody..

BigFish · 10-22-2008, 04:59 PM

If you were here right now Iceman I would trip you and kick you into unconciousness......not that I hate you though!

Nebe · 10-22-2008, 05:06 PM

pssst. if you physically attack anyone, its a crime.

BigFish · 10-22-2008, 05:10 PM

Point is Eben....yeah its a crime...but does it have to be called a hate crime??? Its a crime dammit!!! Period!!

Raven · 10-22-2008, 05:35 PM

i hate Chimpanzee's too

they can't be trusted and will always bail out on ya...

i want to kick their ass....

watch this video and see for yourself

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bes....shot.tues.cnn

Nebe · 10-22-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Point is Eben....yeah its a crime...but does it have to be called a hate crime??? Its a crime dammit!!! Period!!

A hate crime is usually an unprovoked attack on someone who is viewed as inferior for what ever reason.. race, gay, small.. etc..
beating up homeless guys for no reason other than they are homeless is a hate crime in my book and should be punnished as such

The Dad Fisherman · 10-22-2008, 07:13 PM

American Heritage Dictionary defines ..

hate crime

NOUN:

A crime motivated by prejudice against a social group:

I would consider the homeless a social group...

Mike P · 10-22-2008, 07:59 PM

I can't understand why any prosecutor in his right mind charges anything as a hate crime.

A&B with a dangerous weapon is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in the state pen. All I have to prove is that a defendant struck someone with an instrument capable of causing serious injury--a kick from a shod foot is enough. I don't have to prove anything else. To prove some sort of A&B D/W as a hate crime, I also have to prove that you're part of some protected group or class, and that the defendant assaulted you because, and only because, you're a member of that group or class.

I'll take the straight A&B D/W for $1000, Alex.

Thgis California case is a real hoot. First degree murder in the Land of Fruits and Nuts is punishable by death via lethal injection. So, what does making it a crime to commit premeditated murder as a hate crime do to increase the penalty and serve to further deter people from killing other people?

The Dad Fisherman · 10-22-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike P

the Land of Fruits and Nuts

....Thats awesome

wheresmy50 · 10-23-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

If I attack a white guy...its not a hate crime??? I am poking fun at the entire scenario of "Hate Crime Laws"........its funny because if I do attack a white guy, and me being white, it would not be called a hate crime.......just something to do to pass the time I guess!

Right, of course. If you beat someone to death with a hammer, there is probably some anger involved. Hopefully you'll go to jail for a very long time.

If you beat someone to death with a hammer, and that person is a memeber of a protected group (the point of the article is that the homeless are not yet a member of that group) and you have prejudicial thoughts which have caused you to do what you did (maybe a lawyer can straighten me out on the actual criteria) then you've committed something worse in the eyes of some law makers.

It's all BS intended to get votes from bleeding heart types. Crimes should be prosecuted based on the act and circumstances, not on what you are thinking.

Even GWB, who's supporters admit is not a good public speaker, killed Al Gore on this point in one of the debates. When Al Gore mentioned that the attackers of the black man who was drug to death behind a pickup in Texas were not prosecuted under hate crimes laws, Bush said (paraphrasing) "We executed them, what more should we have done"?.

The Dad Fisherman · 10-23-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheresmy50

It's all BS intended to get votes from bleeding heart types. Crimes should be prosecuted based on the act and circumstances, not on what you are thinking.

Isn't the difference between 1st and 2nd dergree murder.....what you're thinking.

I am either planning or thinking about killing someone vs. coming home and finding the mrs. screwing around and get mad and kill them.

I'm sure there is some substantial legal language that define the 2 but I think that's the rough difference.

Swimmer · 10-23-2008, 08:59 AM

There are enough laws on the books to handle anything that comes along. They legislators could tweaked the ones we have, so they work better certainly.

As far as the homeless goes. They are a voting body. They roll out of the shelters and vote. If one group of the electorate could count on thier votes by enacting this then they could also count on thier votes.

Swimmer · 10-23-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Isn't the difference between 1st and 2nd dergree murder.....what you're thinking.

I am either planning or thinking about killing someone vs. coming home and finding the mrs. screwing around and get mad and kill them.

I'm sure there is some substantial legal language that define the 2 but I think that's the rough difference.

The difference is premeditated or not, and the jury gets to decide that if the person is charged with 1st degree murder.

The Dad Fisherman · 10-23-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimmer

The difference is premeditated or not, and the jury gets to decide that if the person is charged with 1st degree murder.

Isn't Premeditated planning it...like I said.

Your pointing out that we agree

The Iceman 6 · 10-23-2008, 01:51 PM

EarnedStripes44 · 10-23-2008, 03:46 PM

Some years ago in my college dormitory, a guy bludgeoned another guy in the shower with a baseball bat because he thought the guy he sent to the ICU was peeking at him in the stall. It may have been the case that he was, but he did not have to bat the guys head open. He would've been better off slugging the guy real good, you know, with his fist. Anyway, victim lived and old dude was convicted and sentenced to 10 years because the prosecutor charged him w/ a hate crime. Not exactly the place to be if your worried about getting touched in the showers.

Mike P · 10-23-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Anyway, victim lived and old dude was convicted and sentenced to 10 years because the prosecutor charged him w/ a hate crime. Not exactly the place to be if your worried about getting touched in the showers.

He could have been sentenced to 10 years for A&B with a dangerous weapon just as easily. If the prosecutor charged him with more serious crimes, like armed assault to murder and/or mayhem, they could have given him double that, at least.

But charging it as a "hate crime" gets a prosecutor more headlines, you see.

Swimmer · 10-24-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Isn't Premeditated planning it...like I said.

Your pointing out that we agree

Yes, only I was further pointing out that if the person is charged w/1st degree the perp can be found guilty of a lessor offense. Charge can always be lowered, never raised in severity.

Premeditation can be a short time or a considerable length of time.

wheresmy50 · 10-27-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Isn't the difference between 1st and 2nd dergree murder.....what you're thinking.

I am either planning or thinking about killing someone vs. coming home and finding the mrs. screwing around and get mad and kill them.

I'm sure there is some substantial legal language that define the 2 but I think that's the rough difference.

No, not really. Planning is an action - even if it exists in your brain. They're trying to differentiate between an act of passion and one that was planned, meaning the events leading up to the act were different. A lawyer could certainly do a much better job of differentiating this, and I'm sure there's a mistake in there somewhere.

Hate crimes laws take the same exact crime, which is planned or unplanned, try to change it based on whether or not the person is a member of a protected group, and whether or not you had hateful thoughts about that person. So, first of all it's racist, since it's legally impossible for a black to commit a hate crime against a white, yet it's certainly possible for blacks to have racist thoughts against whites. Second, the law tries to tell you what you're allowed to think in a round about way. You can think racism is wrong if you want, and I'm not going to disagree, but my blood starts to boil a little when the government tries to make it illegal to believe something.