Opinions Please

[fishaholic18]

This is a wrap I'm working on , it's a 1208 I'm building for my uncle. What do you guys think? I hope the blue doesn't bleed through the red.I'll have to use plenty of cp I guess.

[Notaro]

nice candy stick, fishaholic!

[Fishpart]

[Bawana]

Its different and it looks good and straight.You will know how much bleed it will have as soon as you do first cp. Came out nice

[Christian]

cool!

[fishaholic18]

I did one coat of cp, real heavy and it bled a little but looks fine after ir dried. I think I'll do a second coat just in case. If this thing bleeds I'll shoot myself.

[Bawana]

hey fish when you said you put one coat on real heavy are you blotting the preserver off with a paper towel????I coat first time and soak it good but blot off the whole surface gentley with a paper towel to remove excess.This is for first coat as thread sometimes tend to stretch and can distort.Once it is dry I recoat and then remove excess by rolling paper towell over blank.You dont have to be as gentle on the second or third coat.but this gives a clearer and cleaner look to it >I hope this is clear enough to understand good luck.

[fishaholic18]

Yes, I did blot with PT. Thanks Bawana

[Billy 40]

What CP are you using? If you gave a good first coat, the additional coats will only sit on top of the first one. WHen the epoxy is applied, depending on teh color thread and type of CP used, you might see small Crystals, or a milky white haze under the epoxy.

However, this is nearly impossible to notice, 99% of the people who see the rod will not notice. Teh second coat of CP is an insurance booster, I used to do it all the time myself, but if you do it right only 1 coat of CP is needed.

What CP will not prevent, is bleed through due imporpoer packing - threads not packed together tight enough, when the epoxy is applied, it acts as a magnifying glass, and you might have areas that seem like bleed through. You shouldn't have this problem with the wrap you did there, it looks tight.

Threads swelling when CP is applied, is caused by improper tension. Figure out how to lay the threads down under tension, and you'll NEVER have this problem again. THere are a few ways improper tension can happen - obviously you don't have enough. But if the wrap has a lot of crossover points, and you wrap a few threads tightly over looser threads, there is a chance you'll see the swelling of the looser threads when CP is applied.

I don't think you'll have any of these issues with this, I just put it out there for you for future reference.

[Goose]

That came came out sweet.

[Bawana]

hey billy Id like to know what kind of super tape you are using that you dont have issues with the thread sliding especially coming off the front grip.I am using the 3m stuff and I have always had small problem with some threads especially the metallics sliding as the wrap comes down onto the blank.these would be the threads going up to the right and down to the left(I think )they also tend to stretch a little when the water based cp is applied.I was shown to cp from the center out just past where the end wrap will be.if nessesary you can then pull the little bit of slack out of individual threads. After this dries I start end wrap and taper threads from wrap to be covered.This way nothing shifts. IF you have and easier way I*d appreciate hearing what it is.I have noticed that the threads all seem to slightly stretch when wet and the pattern will get a little loose but it shrinks back into place when it dries.This is why I recomended the gentle dabbing with paper towel so you dont shift anything out of place.I have only seen the haze you refered to when cp is applied and the excess is not taken off.I have been using the flex coat for a long time and have had pretty good luck with it but as soon as I use up the couple of Quarts of high build I have I think I will try the Aftcoat stuff.I dont think fish was talking about spaces but the show thru of the blue where it crosses under the red but maybe I misunderstood.Packing the threads is also a lot easier if the threads are done in multiple thread passes instead of individual ones.This gives a litle bit of a saw toothed pattern at the cross points but it looks good.I thought I saw this in the pattern he did but again i could be wrong.And again I will listen to what anyone has to say about how they do thier wrapping and I am willing to adapt to any method that is easier or works better.What Cp was it that you got the crystal look with? I tried the guderbrod stuff once that ha to be cut with alcohol and thought it was crap. I think it was 811 but not sure.

[fishaholic18]

Yes Banawa, I did run multiple threads(5), and I like the sawtooth pattern it gives. I try to use mostly metallics so i don't have bleed issues but i want to expand my horizon and use more colors. I'm using Gudebrod 811 cp on this one and I did thin with a little alcohol. I hope it works. What cp are you guys having the best luck with? I tried Flexcoat and wasn't crazy about it. Also ,what kind of finish are you having the best luck with? I've been using Aftcoat but recently switched to Glass Coat and I really like it, only down fall is that it kicks fast so you have to work a little faster.

[Billy 40]

Baw - I use the 2-sided tape Clemens sold. You wanna know how I fixed that thread slidign off teh foregrip problem? I wrap backwards, tip to butt. Granted, I cannot do a split diamond type of wrap this way, but for everythign else I wrap I go the other way. I don't have tape on both sides of the wrap, I only put it towards the tip, and turn around between the front of the foregrip, and the first repeat of the pattern - which is 20 or 25mm ALWAYS. Before you think I'm crazy, read through these 2 threads I posted on another site a while back:

http://www.visualwrap.com/cgibin/yab...num=1050291347

http://www.visualwrap.com/cgibin/yab...num=1050291305

You are 100% correct, that the milky white is from excess CP, as are the crystals from Gudebrod. I was trying to convey that if too much is applied, that will be the result. IF they are applied correctly, niether the milk of crystals will occur.

I use 811S/Brilliance 2. Everyone has their likes and dislikes, stick with what works for you - just make sure you give as many products a go around so you can find what YOU like best.

On butt wraps, I've come to prefer Glass Coat. I use Aftcote on my guides. I have the sample bottleof Aftcote, and appaantly it does not set up as hard as the ones which are being sold. I have rods I can stick my fingernail in teh epoxy which I finished months ago, I REALLY like the fact I can do that, as epoxy cracking is a thing of the past for my rods - I give Aftcote 60% of the credit for that, Alconites/Fuji concept 30%, and 10% goes to my inproved guide grinding skill. (way off topic, huh?)

[Bawana]

I have tried a couple of the guderbrod cp*s and I know I have even some of the old 111 lying around from back in the late 70*s or very early 80*s.Ya I*m a pac rat too.I have been using the flex coat stuff for probably 20 years now and have had pretty good luck with it.I was given a bottle of the 811 and tried it but maybe it was the old dogs and new tricks thing but I didn*t like the way it went on as far as it drying really fast.It was a couple of years ago but if I remember it was drying while I was still working with it so I went back to the stuff I liked as you said.----- I understoood what you were talking about when you said you wrapped tip to butt right away.If that works for you great but I think I might suffer a brain implosion if I tried that.I was told it was possible to wrar the pattern and then install the fore grip but I have never tried that either.What I usually do is put a piece of 3/4 inch masking tape in front of thegrip and wrap with regular string to taper it down from the grip to the blank out to the end of the tape.then I wrap over this with electrical tape.The scotch 33 seems to work best as its very flexible but its also kinda expensive compared to other brands.I then cover the grip with couple layers of masking tape then couple layers of electrical tape spiraling it to ends.This is all just to protect the grip when removing the two sided tape at end.Over this I wrap a layer of the scotch two sided (green backing) tape.all the way to the end of the tape on the blank.This seems to help the slippage but by no means eliminates it.I also like the saw toothed pattrern that you get from the multiple thread wraps and one of the best wrappers i know does all his stuff using two threads instead of one even for the pattern work.His stuff is absolutely incredible and he*s been at a it for like 35 years as a job.I still am picking up little things here and there and even learned something from bud 8 when I met him at mike*s shop last winter and I*ll bet he doesnt remember what it was.I also check the Rodbuilder site and pick up little tidbits from what other buiders are doing and what problems they run into.This to me is just a hobby and I have no desire to step on anyones toes that does it as a living.I build only for myself and an ocasional favor and have a rather extensive collection of experiments using different blanks built for different types of fishing from schoolies to unlimited rods. I like to try out different blanks and different guides styles for both conventional and spinning rods.Reels--- I have hundreds I just love fishing saltwater and all that goes with it.Sharing info-- what little I have--is what this is all about. Fish*s work has come a long way in a relatively short ttime and if he keeps going he*s gonna be doing some real good stuff --Keep it up its looking good.Heck look at what Mikes daughter is doing at 11 years old.She*s gonna make some fisherman a happy camper with her rod building ability.I tried to interest my kids in it but NOOOOO its easier to have dad do it. Now this is getting way Off subject and I plead guilty to thread jacking

[fishaholic18]

Well, I put a coat of epoxy on the wrap and it bled in spots. I can't understand it. Two coats of CP on the underwrap and two on the rest. Not happy!

[Billy 40]

Post a picture, close up as possible of where it bled through. I'm also sending you the VW Script for the Predator and regular fish, right now

[fishaholic18]

Here it is

[fishaholic18]

another

[fishaholic18]

one more

[Bawana]

That stinks--If you find out what caused it please let me know--Pics kinda out of focus so hard to see problem---Is there some kind of reaction problem with the epoxy doing something to the CP to let the epoxy get into the thread?I have never seen spots appear just from putting the epoxy coating on.Did the thread turn translucent like if no CP was used?----------- for billy also puzzled as to why a split diamond cannot be wrapped from tip to butt?How much are you allowing for an end wrap when going this way.I have been going with like 1+1/2 or 1+3/4 to split the poor side of the pattern.Does going this way allow for a shorter end wrap?

[Billy 40]

Baw - I said the split "cannot" be wrapped tip to butt, and you are correct, I am wrong about that. I personally cannot wrap a split tip to butt because I use such a short tie off area, as you questioned me about. Square wraps are either 20mm (on blanks under 40mm circumference), and 25mm over 40mm. That is very, very short compared to most of what I've seen - moreso tat I do almost all closed wraps, and all intricate wraps.

Fishaholic - I'm gonna say you have a multitude of issues. First, I think you either cut teh CP with too much Denatured, or you did not apply the CP correctly (to the entire wrap) to get blotches like that. Second, and BAwana touched on this - there might be some contaminant on the thread which prevents the CP from soaking in. I really don't know waht else to say.

How are you packing yor threads? Are you going back and slicing off and fuzzies or nubs prior to putting the epoxy on?

Seriously, no more bltting for you. Apply 2 super duper heavy coats of CP, don't blot, and see if that works. You gotta start somewhere with a perfect wrap, and if 2 heavy coats of CP doesn't work, you know there is contamination.

ANyone else have suggestions? YOu might want to go post these pics on rodbuilding.org, and ask what went wrong over there. I don't know what else I can do to hepl.

[capesams]

.

[Bawana]

Hey fish I checked with one of the guys that works at CMS today as to what they are using under the Aftcote and he told me they are using the flex coat CP and havent had any problems with it.I hope not cause I picked up a quart and am gonna try it with the flex CP myself.I think your gonna have to bite the bullet and remove the wrap and start over.For what its worth I have never met anyone that hasnt had to cut and dump one.A while back another guy on here told me about removing the epoxy that doesnt come off when you pull thread with a dremel and Nylon brush wheel.Said it didnt hurt surface of blank at all and worked really good for him.It Sux but once the epoxy is on I dont know what to do to save.Billy mentioned denatured alcohol---OH--OH maybe that was my problem when I tried the 811-- I was using 99% Iysopropel alcohol.I thought it was the correct stuff they just said cut with alcohol like 10%.I knew not to use the medical alcohol cause thats only 70% the rest is water.

[Billy 40]

Dave - here is some info for you. This will not solve your problem, but at least it will let you know prior to epoxying whether or not the CP coating was enough.

I've never tried this, but I know it's been mentioned to me by several long time builders. Hope these tips help.

[fishaholic18]

Thanx for all the info Billy, Capesam and Bawana. I'm gonna rip it down and redo it. I will get it right if it kills me. I'll keep you guys posted on the outcome. I think I may give Flexcoat cp a shot.

[mikecc]

I use 811 warm it up in the micro for 15 seconds to thin it out then i add a few drops of 90% + alcohol and I get good results .

[Bawana]

Mike what kind of alcohol do you thin it with when you use the 811 the denatured stuff or the isopropyl 99%.I Am just curious if that was my problem when I tried it. also want to know what hours you are open now.

[Billy 40]

Mike - you thinned with Iso? I only used Denatured, and have been told you could "only" use Denatured. Only in quotes, because I wouldn't be surpised if everyone, like me, heard you could only use Denatured, and never bothered to try Iso. Yet we still tell others you "must" use Denatured.

[mikecc]

Denatured

7-6 monday- thursday
Friday 7-7
saturday6-7
sunday 6-3

[Bawana]

Thanks Mike I was in Wareham last Sat. and wanted to swing by and pick up a couple of things but it was past 3 and I wasnt sure if you were open later now or not-------Duh I guess I better get some denatured alcohol and give the 811 stuff another try.Tom Kirkman had mentioned to me he was using denatured alcohol to clean the epoxy off the blanks when putting grips on instead of the acetone because it wasnt as harse on the finishes.I keep meaning to get some but now I will for sure.Does the denatured evaporate slower than the Iso stuff?