Solution to Difficult Wire

[Fishpart]

I made what I consider an amazing discovery that I thought some of you might be able to use.

I have been using .0625" dia 316L SS rods for my through wires and was finding them tough to work with. I also tried some .041" dia 316L mig wire and found it difficult to work with. 316L is supposed to be annealed, but I thought the mig wire wis a little too lively. I tried heating the mig wire with a propane torch till it was bright orange (around 1100-1220 F) and let it slowly air cool. After cooling I found the material was extremely easy to work with, but the .041" dia was a little too soft to stand up in the plug. I tried the same thing with the .0625" dia rods and found that the material behaved beautifully. I folded the wire over a small rod and squeezed it with pliers and came out with a beautiful ring with theh two ends of the wire laying almost perfectly parallel. Even though the tensile strength of the material drops when you anneal, at 80,000 psi for annealed 316 SS your 1/16"through-wire still has a breaking strength around 250 pounds.

I measured where the wire stuck through the plug and also annealed that section of wire and found it much easier to do my tail wrap.

[capesams]

[Slipknot]

Dat's using your noodle ed.

[capesams]

works great....just let the wire cool off by it self,,,no water.

[Fishpart]

My materil scientist told me that to truly anneal 300 series ss you need to soulution anneal at 1950 F and quench in water. He said an anneal by simply heating and air cooling will drive the carbon off and allow corrosion to happen. I figure by the time the wire corrodes the plug will be lost or destroyed by bluefish first.

[UserRemoved1]

Next time you need some wire, try 308L instead, much easier to work with, but just as strong, bends alot easier than the 316L too. I bought some about a month ago after looking at 304 also, the 304 was much too soft, but the 308 was perfecto!

[JohnR]

I think the problem with 308 is that it doesn't fall into Fishpart's lap as easily as 316

I see we're consulting with metalurgists now. Guess that means we run the full gammot between Nauset Gypsy Fortune Tellers up to Metal Docs... Impressive

[Fishpart]

Had some 316 that fell a while ago. Working on actaully buying some 316 this time. I am more comfortable with the 300 SS alloys above 310 because of the corrosion resistance, but I do see some reputable plug builders are using 308..........

[UserRemoved1]

try the 308 you won't be sorry, it looks identical to the 316 and i'd be willing to bet that it won't rust any worse than 316 also. I have 308 stainless roof racks that I custom made for the roof of me buggy, i sandblasted them with #00 black beauty for a final finish, and they look almost as good 2.5 years later as they did when I made them, some little dinky stains here and there but no rust and they stay outside every day.

[bassmaster]

You said black beauty Master

[bud8fan]

I think you will find that any stainless in the 300 series will be fine for the plugs.
Now if you were talking the 400 series I would tell you that rust is a big problem!
304 stainless is the most widely used in most fields(not talking plug building here).
Not sure if you guys knew this but the more you work with the 300 series stainless the harder it will get.
For instance if you took a flat piece of 304 and passed it through a leveling machine with slight pressure every pass will make it a little harder. This is a little trick we use at work if a customer sends their own material to be perforated and it comes in soft. We can actually change the hardness if it by doing this.
Its what we call "work hardening"!

At my place of employment we deal with all sorts of companies in all fields. One of our biggest customers is in the medical field and they buy their parts out of 304 and their application is submerged in water 100% of the time! Never have they complained that their parts rust.


Salty? Do you still have that 304 you said you tried?
If you do, try what I mentioned above. Work it a bit and see if it gets harder.
Now if the wire is annealed "dead soft" it might not come back.
But its worth a try.

[NIB]

good stuff b8F what do the #'s mean I have some weldin wire with a 309 sticker on it .Its real tuff hard to bend.but I like it in the big stuff an 3.oz pencil poppers it don.t loosen up.

[Fishpart]

The numbers are the alloy number. The higher the number in the 300 Series fo Satinless Steels the greater the resistance to corrosion.

[Saltheart]

I would think you would be better off with less alloying elements than to "sensitize" the higher alloyed materials with the lower temp anneal. We call it sensitized whenthe material is heated to the point where the Chrome comes out of solution in the iron and forms Chrome Carbides. Not only does the base material become more prone to corrosion , but the corrosion gets localized at grain boundaries. this will quickly turn the wire brittle and it will break. Sensitization can also happen if you get it hot enough but cool it too slowly through the range where the Chromium Carbides precipitate out. I would think even just plain steel would be better than sensitized stainless.

Anyway , I think using softer , lower alloyed wire like the 308 to begin with would be a better choice.

As bud8fan said , these materials will work harden so just bend as needed. Try to never bend it one way then unbend it or bend it back the other. Also try not to pinch or dent it with pliers in the areas where you will be bending. That will also cause brittle spots.

Better still , why not just ask JHabs what kind of wire he uses?

[fishing bum wannabe]

I bought soft 302/304 wire from McMaster-Carr and have been using it for a while. I haven't had any issues with it straightening under pressure, but then I haven't had the opportunity to test it on anything other than hooking the plug to a tree and tugging. It is softer and easier to work than the 316, but still is plenty stiff. It is far stiffer than the brass wire I used to use.

What might be the down side to this wire? My understanding is that this is what Gibbs has been using it for many years.

I would think that the 302/304 would have suitable corrosion resistenace for use on a plug, certainly more than the zinc coated hooks and chromed brass swivels that are used on the plug. At what point is the corrosion resistance overkill?

bud8fan, thanks for the sheet stainless. Makes nice lips. Stiff! Tried punching through for the wire like I did with my old brass lips. I had ground a punch to shape (5/32" dia punch, ground with flats so that it was 1/16+" x 5/32"), put the plate on top of the end grain of a piece of hardwood and gave it a solid hit with a hammer. It goes through the stainless some of the time, but deforms the lip and the punch doesn't want to come out. When it works it cuts a nice shape. I will have to rethink that process. Got any tricks?

[bud8fan]

AS, I think the best way is to drill the hole with a carbide or titanium tipped bit. The way you are doing it actually dimples the stainless. Now if you had a die below the stock then it might work but that is a bit technical. Just drill it. I think that is what everyone else is doing?

I believe Habs is using 316 but remember he has been in business for a long time and doesnt need to take a chance on getting a bad batch of wire.

Here goes for some more technical stuff!

Chemical components!
304 316
Chromium 18-20% 16-18%
Nickel 8-11% 10-14%
Carbon both have a maximum carbon amount of .08%
Maganese 2% 2%
Silicon 1% 1%
other(allowable %) 5 3
Rockwell(hardness) B90 B90

My main reason for posting this information is to show you all that there really isnt a major difference between the two.
Like Saltheart said he would think that you would want to start with a softer compound? I tend to agree. If stainless gets too hard it become brittle and that should be more of a concern than softness in my opinion.

Another thing to consider is are you making battleship hulls or fishing plugs? Now I can agree with someone who is planning on marketing his product. He wouldnt want to find that the wire was failing and have to replace items that failed.
But most of you are doing this as enjoyment and to swap here and there. I really doubt even 302 would be a problem.

Just my opinion guys??
For what its worth

[bud8fan]

Ok guys,

for the record I have the chance to pick up a spool of 304 annealed stainless steel wire .063" thick.
I have no use for this but obviously some of you might?
I have already sent some to one of the builders on this board to do a test on.
If its up to snuff I am going to purchase the spool.
It will cost me market price as SCRAP on the day I get it.
For instance that was .30/lb last time I checked.

So would you consider trying this stuff at that price?

[UserRemoved1]

I'll take like 30 lbs bubba

Can always use wire....

[fishing bum wannabe]

bud8fan

I am down to my last 10' of 302/304 .064 and would be interested in any reasonable amount they have at that price. I don't want to be too greedy if others want it. But 10lbs would be nice, 30 would be nicer. There is roughly 90' per pound. Remember that nice bottle popper at Slip's. There are more where that came from... Plus I am working on some casting swimmers, black, mackeral and blue over white.

[bud8fan]

I kind of figured that at that price alot of people would be interested.

Ok here is the situation I am faced with.
The spool of wire I can aquire is buried in the back of the warehouse at work. I am waiting on the materials manager to get it un-buried and weighed up so I know whats there.
The spool that he gave me to test looked like hardly anything and come to find out there was about 200+ feet on it. I am not really sure how much is on the spool but I am guessing its in the thousands of feet!!!
Once I get ahold of it I will weigh it up and using .0106lbs/lineal foot as a divider I will know for sure. Once that is done I plan on giving anyone who is interested a shot at some.
I have been collecting empty spools from the EDM machine for the past week and I will put the wire on these.
I will need to get a grip on the footage I have before I can promise anyone exact amounts. So bear with me!!

What do I want in return??
Not looking to make a profit! Just need whatever I pay for it. Plus a thank you Plug(or plugs) you decide! And hopefully new fishing partner's and lifelong friends.

I will deal with shipping it on my end! If it needs to be shipped? If I can get this stuff together prior to the 15th shindig!! That would be a plus for some.

I will post an update on the wire once I get some feedback from someone here(you know who you are!LOL)

Glad to help you guy's out!!!!!!!!!!

Russ

[Slipknot]

Originally posted by assinippi
. When it works it cuts a nice shape. I will have to rethink that process. Got any tricks?

I don't have any tricks , but I would just drill it if it's that much trouble to stamp it. If it bends the metal, can't ya just hammer it back into shape?

[NIB]

I love it when you talk thirty to me. you let me know when they dig it up.

[bassmaster]

Originally posted by bud8fan
nd of figured that at that price alot of people would be
Not looking to make a profit! Just need whatever I pay for it. Plus a thank you Plug(or plugs) you decide! And hopefully new fishing partner's and lifelong friends.


Glad to help you guy's out!!!!!!!!!!

Russ

hhmmm thank You plug sure put Me down

[bud8fan]

Originally posted by BM
hhmmm thank You plug sure put Me down

BM? Just one?

Like I said will post once all is set!!



Russ

[bassmaster]

email me If I miss it thanks