How about that migrant caravan ??

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually I believe a lot of the asylum seekers are small business owners, they’re not poor relatively speaking hence why they’re such a target of crime.
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I wonder who is running their small businesses while they are off seeking asylum?

[Pete F.]

This person would tell you this if you are thinking of coming to this country now.

I am a refugee living in the United States and I know what it means to escape death. Still, I warn others not to come – they won’t be safe or welcome here
Don’t come here. If you are afraid for your life and you have no place to go, don’t pick this country. It is not safe for you here any more.

If you try to cross our borders, people in military uniform called border patrol agents, will arrest you, throw you in a freezing cage and subject you to all kinds of abuses. These agents who don’t speak your language will sit you down and interrogate you. It won’t matter if you didn’t understand their questions, they will write whatever they want in dozens of forms, make you sign them, and use them against you later as they try to deport you.

You will tell them that you don’t understand the forms, but they won’t care. They will tell you that if you don’t sign them, they won’t let you go free. So you will sign them. But even after signing the forms, they will keep you caged.

Rotting food, abuses from your jailers, and how much you miss your family may make you beg to be deported. You know that your deportation will mean returning to violence and possible death, but when you realize that this country doesn’t think of you as a person, you may pick dignity and death over being caged and treated like an animal.

You might be lucky and be among the very few who are released from immigration jail and allowed to live in our country while your asylum application is pending. This won’t mean that your immigration case will be over though. Your immigration case will not be solved for years, and even though you have a case for staying in this country, the government will make you wait for years before you get a final answer.

While you wait for your case to be heard, you won’t be given any help. You will be on your own finding a job, learning English, and adjusting to this country. But you knew that before deciding to come. You are fighter, so that won’t be a problem for you. You will work long hours, find a place to lay your head, learn English, and survive. After a couple of years of hard work and sacrifices, you will feel that there is some hope for your future. Maybe, you will start believing that the American dream is attainable.

Then, something unexpected will happen. You will get sick or you will get very depressed. Maybe you will be sad because you miss your family. Because of how sick or sad you were, you will sleep in one day, miss a shift at work, and you will be fired. You will run out of money and while looking for jobs, one day you will jump the turnstile to get on a train for a job interview. To you, it was worth the risk, but you miscalculated.

You will get arrested and charged with a crime for the first time in your life. You will swear never to make a mistake again but it will be too late. This arrest will lead you back to an immigration jail similar to the one you were released from years ago. You will wait in an immigration detention center for months before you see a judge.

The day of your immigration hearing you will be wearing an orange jumpsuit and will be shackled. You will go in front of an immigration judge who will reprimand you for the mistake you committed and tell you don’t have the right to a bail hearing. You will remain in jail indefinitely while your deportation proceedings are pending.

Because you are poor, you probably won’t be able to afford a lawyer and you won’t be given one. You will have to represent yourself in one of the most complicated legal systems in the world and all in a language you likely don’t speak. The judge will tell you to bring evidence to prove the terrible things that happen to you in your home country. But you won’t be able to get it because you are detained and can’t afford phone calls or experts.

The day of your final hearing, months after you were detained, you will face a lawyer from the government who will push for your deportation. The judge, who works with the government attorney five days a week and has a good relationship with them, will listen to them over you and order your deportation.

But let’s say you don’t get deported. If for some reason, and against all the odds, you find an immigration judge that listens to your story and understands your life is at risk if you return to your country, you will be granted permission to stay here. Then, you finally may feel that something good came your way.

That feeling will go away though. You will realize that having the ability to legally work and live in this country does not mean all your problems are solved.

But even if everything works out and you are never arrested, abused, murdered, or deported, you will never feel fully welcome here. No matter how much you work, how many sacrifices you make, the contributions you made to our country and the perfect English you have, you will always feel like an undesirable guest. Everybody in our government will make sure to let you know that you are not wanted here.

I know you have heard so many wonderful things about this place. I am sure that you heard that we were a “nation of immigrants,” correct? Well, that’s a thing of the past. We even changed the mission of the government agency handling asylum applications so it is clear to you. We are now “committed to protecting Americans, securing the homeland, and honoring our values.” What values, you ask? Well, whatever we pick to justify that you are not welcome here.

What is that? You still want to come?

I know. I know you will come because I am a refugee living in the United States and I know what it means to escape death. I am so ashamed that we will do this to you and I am angry because my new country has betrayed me and every other person who believed in it. This place is not what it used to be. Just know that.

Luis Mancheno is an immigration attorney in New York. He was granted asylum in the United States in 2009 after fleeing from his native Ecuador

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

This person would tell you this if you are thinking of coming to this country now.

I am angry because my new country has betrayed me and every other person who believed in it. This place is not what it used to be. Just know that.

Luis Mancheno is an immigration attorney in New York. He was granted asylum in the United States in 2009 after fleeing from his native Ecuador

Is this guy some expert on what this country used to be? Did it used to be the alternative to living in Ecuador? What is he doing to change Ecuador? Does he believe that half of Ecuador, or more, should come here and make this country what it used to be? Will that make Ecuador a better country?

It seems, if we're to believe the narrative, that the majority of Central Americans are oppressed, in danger of death, impoverished, and at the mercy of criminals. And this guy feels they must need to come to the U.S. and help America be what it used to be.

He is not grateful for being here as a successful (I presume) attorney, but feels that he has been betrayed by his new country. And that every other person who believed in it has also been betrayed. It sounds like he would be miserable wherever he lived unless the place was a reflection of what he believed--like he is the center of the universe, and it must listen to him.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Is this guy some expert on what this country used to be? Did it used to be the alternative to living in Ecuador? What is he doing to change Ecuador? Does he believe that half of Ecuador, or more, should come here and make this country what it used to be? Will that make Ecuador a better country?

You've got a lot of questions for someone who only wants answers. He has an opinion on how America is now to Hispanic immigrants and a broken belief in what some think America was, I would think you would be happy with his viewpoint of Trump's America

It seems, if we're to believe the narrative, that the majority of Central Americans are oppressed, in danger of death, impoverished, and at the mercy of criminals. And this guy feels they must need to come to the U.S. and help America be what it used to be.

Where did he say that in any manner, shape or form?

He is not grateful for being here as a successful (I presume) attorney, but feels that he has been betrayed by his new country. And that every other person who believed in it has also been betrayed. It sounds like he would be miserable wherever he lived unless the place was a reflection of what he believed--like he is the center of the universe, and it must listen to him.

Chévere, we all have bad days, some would say the same about you and change.

[detbuch]

Pete F QUOTE:
You've got a lot of questions for someone who only wants answers.

I gave some possible answers at the latter end of the post.

He has an opinion on how America is now to Hispanic immigrants and a broken belief in what some think America was, I would think you would be happy with his viewpoint of Trump's America

I perfectly understood what his ethnically apologist opinion is. And his viewpoint of Trump's America, if it is actually that, is too limited in its scope and too self-centered to do much but beg for sympathy.

"It seems, if we're to believe the narrative, that the majority of Central Americans are oppressed, in danger of death, impoverished, and at the mercy of criminals. And this guy feels they must need to come to the U.S. and help America be what it used to be. "

Where did he say that in any manner, shape or form?

In the manner, shape and form of his whole essay.

"He is not grateful for being here as a successful (I presume) attorney, but feels that he has been betrayed by his new country. And that every other person who believed in it has also been betrayed. It sounds like he would be miserable wherever he lived unless the place was a reflection of what he believed--like he is the center of the universe, and it must listen to him."
Chévere, we all have bad days, some would say the same about you and change.[QUOTE/]

I have had bad days. I presume you also had them. I'm not aware of the bad days that change has had.

[Sea Dangles]

Migrant invaders throw rocks at border agents to prove they are serious about asylum?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Migrant invaders throw rocks at border agents to prove they are serious about asylum?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's obviously fake news. The "migrants" are mostly women and children. Peaceful folk trying to escape violence. Women and children escaping violence would not throw rocks at other people.

And there aren't that many of them. Most have gone back. And they won't be arriving for awhile yet. It takes months to travel all that way on foot. So those probably aren't the migrants. Probably some local hooligans trying to make Trump look bad.

[Sea Dangles]

Those folks are not asylum seekers. Never were assylum seekers. This is fake news being spoon fed to willing snowflakes. Open wide dummies.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Those folks are not asylum seekers. Never were assylum seekers. This is fake news being spoon fed to willing snowflakes. Open wide dummies.
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what's the saying

one or a few bad apple spoils the (whole) barrel

its telling to see the right is focused on the Bad ombre

the left is focused on the assylum seekers


but anything that does not support the right view is considered Fake news .... everytime with any story any time of year ...

whos being spoon fed ? Open wide dummies. its you

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

what's the saying

one or a few bad apple spoils the (whole) barrel

Michael Jackson would be very disappointed in you

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Those folks are not asylum seekers. Never were assylum seekers. This is fake news being spoon fed to willing snowflakes. Open wide dummies.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I listened to NPR on the road the other day repeatedly state that "peaceful" migrants were "peacefully" gathering at the border when American Border Patrol members began shooting canisters of tear gas at their babies and children.

this must be what happened....

[scottw]

dumber than trump democrats......

"Hawaii senator Brian Schatz wondered on Twitter if the use of tear gas violated the Chemical Weapons Convention (the answer is an emphatic “no,” and he deleted the tweet). Representative Barbara Lee of California described the gassing of “women and children” as an atrocity and called for U.N. inspectors. Progressive darling Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez compared the migrants to Jews fleeing Nazi Germany."

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

dumber than trump democrats......

"Hawaii senator Brian Schatz wondered on Twitter if the use of tear gas violated the Chemical Weapons Convention (the answer is an emphatic “no,” and he deleted the tweet). Representative Barbara Lee of California described the gassing of “women and children” as an atrocity and called for U.N. inspectors. Progressive darling Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez compared the migrants to Jews fleeing Nazi Germany."

Don't forget Alyssa Milano, she's become the defacto spokesperson for....well.....anything that bothers people.

[Sea Dangles]

Give me your tired,your poor and your rock throwers.
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[Sea Dangles]

But when his fearless leader decided to burn Branch Davidians in Waco it was business as usual. Short memories for the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s. This has nothing to do with asylum,never did. Just gives the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s another reason to bash Trump for something they have given their own side a pass for. Revisionist history lessons given by the sheep dressed up as donkeys.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

This has nothing to do with asylum,never did.
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You’re correct here. This is simply about Trump using bigotry and fear to rile up the base by bringing out the worst in some people. He’s just using the easiest target he can find.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

You’re correct here. This is simply about Trump using bigotry and fear to rile up the base by bringing out the worst in some people. He’s just using the easiest target he can find.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Maybe the vile republicans staged the rock throwing to make their point.🙂
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So you either support the use of deadly force on all people in all events where things are thrown at police or you do not it's not a hard choice .

Or do you support this simply because of who they are are and where they are from

No, it is a hard (as in difficult) choice. It is a hard choice where in certain situations events can rise to the use of lethal force. Hopefully before that threshold is reached, non-lethal force can be substituted. There are vetted policies and procedures as to when that force can be applied - you do know this, right?

Originally Posted by wdmso

its sad that our troops in Afghanistan wouldn't shoot people who throw rocks in a combat zone .. yet some American here see no issue with the idea ... must be that MAGA thing

And I would expect the same restraint in the unlikely event this happened along the border for multiple reasons. First, restraint, they are (mostly) professional. Second, because, as you well aware, the Active Duty Army is Constitutionally Limited to what they can do along the border, and that they are in a support function.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by JohnR

No, it is a hard (as in difficult) choice. It is a hard choice where in certain situations events can rise to the use of lethal force. Hopefully before that threshold is reached, non-lethal force can be substituted. There are vetted policies and procedures as to when that force can be applied - you do know this, right?



And I would expect the same restraint in the unlikely event this happened along the border for multiple reasons. First, restraint, they are (mostly) professional. Second, because, as you well aware, the Active Duty Army is Constitutionally Limited to what they can do along the border, and that they are in a support function.

I know all about use of force policys civilian and military

My issue is and always has is you have a sitting POTUS giving his approval to use deadly force against people who throw rocks ... another example of his authoritarian mindset .. who doesn't care about those policys .. he sees them as obstacles

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

This is simply about Trump using bigotry and fear to rile up the base by bringing out the worst in some people.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So you blame Trump for some people throwing rocks?

I see

[Slipknot]

Point out one actual bonafide asylum seeker in that caravan Spence

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

But when his fearless leader decided to burn Branch Davidians in Waco it was business as usual. Short memories for the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s. This has nothing to do with asylum,never did. Just gives the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s another reason to bash Trump for something they have given their own side a pass for. Revisionist history lessons given by the sheep dressed up as donkeys.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

again the facts dont support you

Republicans had hinted that they might unearth secret contacts between Mr. Clinton and officials like Mr. Hubbell, who played a role in the decision to attack the compound. But a panel of current and former officials of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Justice Department who were questioned today gave them no such ammunition.

"I did not talk to the President about Waco prior to the 19th," Mr. Hubbell said, referring to April 19, 1993, when Federal law-enforcement officers pumped tear gas into the compound in an effort to end a 51-day siege against the Davidians.

another attempt at whataboutism why am I not surprised

its not about the use of tear gas the facts clearly show Trump supporting the use of deadly force against people who throw rocks

[Sea Dangles]

It is actually Trump just doing what he said he would do. This is nothing new. Give props where due,the guy has the courage to do what is right for our safety. If these folks throw rocks at our border agents then what type of neighbors would they be? I find it hard to believe this is newsworthy.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

It is actually Trump just doing what he said he would do. This is nothing new. Give props where due,the guy has the courage to do what is right for our safety. If these folks throw rocks at our border agents then what type of neighbors would they be? I find it hard to believe this is newsworthy.
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Please, I’ve seen worse at an Iowa State party and these were college students not desperate asylum seekers.

This immigration crisis is a fabrication to get votes and isn’t going to lead to any meaningful reform. It seeems to have caught your fancy though.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Please, I’ve seen worse at an Iowa State party and these were college students not desperate asylum seekers.

This immigration crisis is a fabrication to get votes and isn’t going to lead to any meaningful reform. It seeems to have caught your fancy though.
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So,yes college is crazy and out of control sometimes. This is not what I would call behavior that is going to produce the golden ticket Jeff. If they are indeed desperate then it’s a shame they couldn’t find the clarity to be on their best behavior. Do you want to live next to folks who stone whomever does not give them satisfaction? Your judgement seems clouded Jeff. Reform is not the goal so I am not sure what you mean by that. The real goal is keeping borders secure which is something we can all agree is a good thing.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Please, I’ve seen worse at an Iowa State party and these were college students not desperate asylum seekers.

This immigration crisis is a fabrication to get votes and isn’t going to lead to any meaningful reform. It seeems to have caught your fancy though.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it’s not a fake crisis. it might seem that way in new england where we don’t live amongst the illegal aliens.

the democrats want future voters, that’s what this is. If Mexican immigrants ever start voting republican, watch how fast the liberals change their tune, they’d ship every last one of these people to the southern tip of Tierra
Del Fuego.

Spence whats ‘bigoted’ exactly, about insisting that immigrants follow the rules? Do you tell your kids to cut lines when it’s convenient for them?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

it’s not a fake crisis. it might seem that way in new england where we don’t live amongst the illegal aliens.

It's totally a fake crisis Jim, border apprehensions are down more than 5 times what they were in 2000, the US based population of undocumented immigrants is estimated to have declined in the last decade. We still need comprehensive reform but this is exactly the wrong way to go about it.

the democrats want future voters, that’s what this is. If Mexican immigrants ever start voting republican, watch how fast the liberals change their tune, they’d ship every last one of these people to the southern tip of Tierra
Del Fuego.

This is perhaps one of the dumbest talking points out there. To apply for citizenship you have to have a green card for 5 years, which you're not going to get if you can't demonstrate you entered the US legally.

Even for those granted permanent asylum you still have to wait years to have your case heard, then if it's approved wait another year to get a green card and then 5 more before you can apply for citizenship.

Nobody is doing this to gain a handful of voters.

Spence whats ‘bigoted’ exactly, about insisting that immigrants follow the rules? Do you tell your kids to cut lines when it’s convenient for them?
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The Honduran refugees aren't trying to cut in line, they're seeking asylum which is perfectly legal. Many of them likely won't get it. If you can't understand the bigotry in the whole thing I'm not going to be able to help you.

[Pete F.]

Rock throwing people are awful, how dare anyone protest anything.
These guys must have been a bunch of criminal liberals, they certainly were in some peoples eyes.
https://www.history.com/topics/ameri...oston-massacre

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Rock throwing people are awful, how dare anyone protest anything.
These guys must have been a bunch of criminal liberals, they certainly were in some peoples eyes.
https://www.history.com/topics/ameri...oston-massacre

So you are trying to draw a comparison simply because of rocks being used? Please tell me you are not that stupid.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Maybe you want to take that up with Micheal Chesna's Widow?

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

So you are trying to draw a comparison simply because of rocks being used? Please tell me you are not that stupid.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'm not the only one.
People have thrown rocks forever.