To stick or not to stick that is the question.... - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

rayndogg · 01-20-2014, 07:41 PM

Hey guys I'm stumped here. The last few seasons i have been having problems with my paint sticking. I meen it just peels right off. Can scratch it off with my finger nail, i can't figure it out. Any ideas in why? Createx is the paint.

Thanks Rene

Sgt Striper · 01-20-2014, 08:42 PM

What are you priming with?

ProfessorM · 01-20-2014, 08:50 PM

Primer peeling off too? Putting it on too heavy? Sealer not dried enough? I dry each coat of createx with hair drier before I proceed to next color or coat. I wait a good amount of time before I go on to each next step too. Sometimes a week or 3 for sealer to dry, then a week between primer, paint, than epoxy. Just how I do it and it is usually that amount of time before I have time to go on to next steps so it works for me. Unfortunately it could be any of the steps involved.

Eric Roach · 01-20-2014, 08:55 PM

Are you heat-setting the Createx between layers? If so, I agree the problem might be an issue with your primer and/or sealer.

If you are not heat-setting, that might be the culprit of the "un-set" paint. I had problems with Createx not seeming to "cure" in the past, so now I heat-set every layer of paint with a heat gun; in fact, I do that now with every type of paint I use -- even lacquer-based ones.

I believe Numbskull or others might heat-set by hanging the painted lure in the oven on a low setting for a short while...not sure of the specifics.

Something else to consider is what you are using (and how much you are using) to thin the Createx for spraying. You could be diluting the binding too much.

Sorry to be repetitive, ProfessorM replied while I was typing...

ProfessorM · 01-20-2014, 09:26 PM

You got to be faster.

Yeah George heat sets them in the oven when he is not lighting sealed ones on fire. I'll stick to the hair drier.

Rockfish9 · 01-21-2014, 09:23 AM

oil base primer over sealer solves most peeling problems.. provided a proper cure is allowed... the weakest link peels... each layer must bond to the next...heating the paint wont stop peeling issues, it only hardens the paint and makes it more durable( and speeds up the curing process)...simular to heat treating steel.. be sure that each layer has ample cure time.. because off gassing during the cure will cause an insufficiant bond.. 24 hours between each " painting process" normally allows ample cure for a strong bond.. but it all start with the sealer .. as Paul said .. it must be completely dry before you even think about priming it..

Eric Roach · 01-21-2014, 12:13 PM

I took "I can scratch it off with my finger nail..." to mean it came off "gooey", which is why I recommended the heat-set. I didn't pay enough attention to the words "sticking" and "peeling."

Some more detail might help determine the possible cause.

rayndogg · 01-21-2014, 07:36 PM

Thanks guys. The primer is rustoleum 2xflat white and or Bin all in on (water based) i have used both thinking it was the primer, but the primer stays on its the base coat that comes off not gooy chips or easily scratches off. I only have this with createx (not diluted) and other water based paints. No I don't heat set although I have tried it and it doesn't prevent it at all. I lightly sand the primer before I airbrush the top coat. And I also seal dry for week sand prime dry for a week sand then paint also a week before epoxy. So I am stumped!!!! No problem when I rattle can them.
Rene
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ProfessorM · 01-21-2014, 07:47 PM

My first coat after a lightly sanded XIM primer is opaque white on all plugs, heat set, then colors. I use Createx and Golden. Does this happen after you epoxy the plugs and then hit a rock and compromise the epoxy and then starts peeling ?

If it peels right off the primer I'd try some different primer then. The problem seems to be adhesion to the primer.
Maybe give XIM 400 white a try. Not cheap but I like it a lot. I get it here in the spray can.

http://www.thepaintstore.com/XIM_400_White_p/1102.htm

Eric Roach · 01-21-2014, 10:58 PM

Sounds like dry time couldn't be the issue; you have real patience.

I dip-prime with a 50/50 mix of BIN Cover Stain/VM&P Naphtha and then spray a coat of Rust-Oleum Painter's Touch 2X primer (which is what I assume you are using -- Rust-Oleum has several products with "2X" on it.)

I spray Rust-Oleum lacquer as a basecoat before airbrushing. I've never had a primer-to-base coat failure using a lacquer base coat. They are both Rust-Oleum products so they bond well. I've also never had a failure between any airbrush paint and the Rust-Oleum lacquer base coat. This would literally add another layer to your paint work, but I'm confident it would eliminate the problem.

Rockfish9 · 01-22-2014, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

My first coat after a lightly sanded XIM primer is opaque white on all plugs, heat set, then colors. I use Createx and Golden. Does this happen after you epoxy the plugs and then hit a rock and compromise the epoxy and then starts peeling ?

If it peels right off the primer I'd try some different primer then. The problem seems to be adhesion to the primer.
Maybe give XIM 400 white a try. Not cheap but I like it a lot. I get it here in the spray can.

http://www.thepaintstore.com/XIM_400_White_p/1102.htm

I think your answer is here... sanding the primer... the surface may be too slick for it to adhere....now we are getting to the bottom of it..

I've used at least a dozen differant primers.. the only time I ever had a problem was with a smooth un sanded finish...

I used to sand my plugs super smoothe... now #150 is as fine as I go... paint and epoxy adhere much better to the rougher surface.. the end result is still a glass like finish because of the epoxy... i use the cheapest paint the craft store has...diluted with water...never an issue... the only time I heat set is when i do scales..there are alot of ways to do this... you'll get lots of good advise... eventually you will find a method that suits you and develop your own process like the rest of us have...

also thin coats.. coats of paint that are too thick never bond well and are prone to peeling.. some times less is more...

rayndogg · 01-22-2014, 08:30 AM

Thanks again guys for all the helpful input i will start text all the methods and see which one works out for me.
Thanks Rene
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Linesider82 · 01-22-2014, 12:35 PM

like Eric said, zinsser BIN primer is a good base. Seal then dry, sand then thin coat primer, hang dry. (I try to do a decent sized batch at once so it is just one repetitive step) then a day later I can light sand and paint with color, but I'm just using rattle cans. Sounds like you have an air brush?