Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Today's Posts Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2009, 08:23 PM   #1
Swimmer
Retired Surfer
iTrader: (0)
 
Swimmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sunset Grill
Posts: 9,511
Olympic get rich deal in Chicago

A very conservative individual posed this as true this morning that if Chicago gets the games then a female friend of the Obamas stand to make a huge amount of money from land she owns where the games will be held. Anyone confirm or deny this? It is hard to imagine something as dastardly as this could occur. I didn't hear it anywhere else but from this one person. He is well-read though.

Swimmer a.k.a. YO YO MA
Serial Mailbox Killer/Seal Fisherman
Swimmer is offline  
Old 10-01-2009, 08:39 PM   #2
Raider Ronnie
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Raider Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: On my boat
Posts: 9,687
Send a message via AIM to Raider Ronnie
Ya,,,
Lets have the olympics in one of the biggest %$%$%$%$ hole cities with one of the highest crime rates !
Since when is it the job of the president to lobby for the olympics in any city ?
I can see the govenor or mayor, but the president ?

LETS GO BRANDON
Raider Ronnie is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:03 AM   #3
Fishpart
Keep The Change
iTrader: (0)
 
Fishpart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Road to Serfdom
Posts: 3,275
Glen Beck ran a piece on it Wednesday 9/30. The connection is clear based on his analysis. Importance of Chicago's Olympic Bid - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com

Many view him as a right wing rabble rouser, but did those same people ever consider the possibility that what he is saying may be true based on the connections he makes???

“It’s not up to the courts to invent new minorities that get special protections,” Antonin Scalia
Fishpart is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:22 AM   #4
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
What a crock...

Chicago announced it's bid for the 2016 games years ago. Obama is from Chicago. Hmmm let's put the thinking cap and see if 2 and 2 go together...

A lot of people in Chicago stand to make money, that's a big reason to bring the Olympics to the USA.

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:23 AM   #5
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Valerie Jarrett and her former firm ...the same Jarrett that admired Van Jones for years, the same Jarrett that Obama wanted in his Senate seat, the same firm responsible for hideous housing conditions around Chicago at the expense of the taxpayers and on...and...on..more muck from the radical corrupt swamp that the Obama's crawled out of....if you really want entertainment do a little investigation into Jarrett and her connections to Daley, Ayers and Alynski....these people are all out of the same radical "school"...

hey, at least we have a great "Safe Schools Czar" OOPS

Why would you give the Olympics to a Sewer run by Corrupt Rats?


By Michelle Malkin | 09/30/09 | 01:34 PM EDT |

When government officials play the Olympic lottery, taxpayers lose. That has been the disastrous experience of host cities around the world. (Forbes magazine even dubbed the post-Olympic financial burden the "Host City Curse.") So, why are President Obama and his White House entourage headed to Copenhagen, Denmark, this week to push a fiscally doomed Chicago 2016 bid? Political payback.

Bringing the games to the Windy City is Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley's "vision." The entrenched Democratic powerbroker -- in office since 1989 -- would like to cap off his graft-haunted tenure with a glorious $4 billion bread-and-circuses production. The influential Daley machine backed Barack Obama for the presidential primary. Obama lavished praise on Daley's stewardship of the city. Longtime Daley cronies helped pave Obama's path to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Now, they're returning the favor for their hometown boss.

Senior White House adviser and Obama consigliere Valerie Jarrett is a Daley loyalist who worked as his deputy chief of staff, deputy corporation counsel and planning commissioner. She hired the future first lady of the United States, then-Michelle Robinson, as a mayoral assistant. Jarrett went on to serve as president and CEO of The Habitat Company, a real estate firm with a massive stake in federally funded Chicago public housing projects.

One of those public-private partnerships, the Grove Parc Plaza Apartments, was run into the ground under Jarrett's watch. Federal inspectors graded the condition of the complex a bottom-of-the-barrel 11 on a 100-point scale. "They are rapidly displacing poor people, and these companies are profiting from this displacement," Matt Ginsberg-Jaeckle of Southside Together Organizing for Power, a community group that seeks to help tenants stay in the same neighborhoods, told the Boston Globe last year. "'The same exact people who ran these places into the ground,' the private companies paid to build and manage the city's affordable housing, 'now are profiting by redeveloping them.'"

Coincidentally enough, Grove Parc -- now targeted for demolition as a result of years of neglect by Obama's developer friends -- sits in the shadows of the proposed site of the city's 2016 Olympic Stadium. Jarrett served as vice chair of Chicago's 2016 Summer Olympics bid committee before moving to the White House, where she has helmed a new "White House Office on Olympic, Paralympic and Youth Sport" with an undisclosed budget and staff.

It's not just taxpayers in cash-strapped Chicago who should be worried about this field of schemes. Crain's Chicago Business reports that Jarrett and Chicago 2016 committee member Lori Healey met this month with federal officials at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development "to discuss financing options" for the estimated $1 billion Olympic Village.

The door is open, and the administration is "willing to meet and listen" to any federal subsidy proposals, Jarrett said. Hey, what happened to Obama's tough rules on interest-conflicted lobbying by his administration officials?

A majority of Chicagoans who live in pay-for-play-plagued Cook County oppose public funding for the Olympic party. The city has more than a half-billion-dollar deficit -- and just received word that its Olympic insurance policy will cover only about $1.1 billion of the $3.8 billion operating budget drawn up by Daley. Cost overruns, fraud and union-inflated contracts are inevitable. White House spokesman Robert Gibbs defended Obama's all-out campaign for Chicago's 2016 Olympics bid by claiming America will see a "tangible economic benefit."

But as is always the case with sports corporate welfare disguised as "economic development," an elite few will benefit far more than others.

Take senior White House adviser and Obama campaign guru David Axelrod. He's been a Daley loyalist since 1989, when he signed up as a political consultant for the mayor's first run. Axelrod's public relations firm, Chicago-based AKPD Message and Media, has pitched in work for the Chicago 2016 committee. It is unknown how much AKPD has received for its services -- or how much they'll make in future income if the bid is successful. AKPD currently owes Axelrod $2 million.

The head of the Chicago 2016 bid committee is Patrick Ryan, chairman of the Aon Corporation and a co-chair of Obama's deep-pocketed presidential inaugural committee. Also on both of those committees: Obama confidante Penny Pritzker, who, in addition, chairs the Olympic Village subcommittee and is president of Pritzker Realty Group -- a mega-developer in Illinois that could reap untold millions in project work if the Daley machine/White House campaign succeeds. Former Pritzker executive and Obama campaign treasurer Martin Nesbitt is also on the bid committee -- and serves as Daley's chairman of the Chicago Housing Authority.

Another bid committee member, Michael Scott Jr., is "trying to develop a for-profit real estate project that would sit within feet of the cycling venue if Chicago wins the 2016 Summer Games," according to the Chicago Tribune.

It takes a crony-filled White House to raise a Chicago Olympic village. Daley and Obama will get the glory. America will get stuck with the bill.

Last edited by scottw; 10-02-2009 at 07:43 AM..
scottw is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:38 AM   #6
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
I was waiting for this thread...
if Houston was in the running for a summer games, you don't think GWB would have been rallying for it? I hope he would have, it is a great thing for any American city to host a games!!!

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:51 AM   #7
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,194
Everyone related to Obama must be the smartest people on earth. They bought land years ago figuring he would be president. They put a birth announcement in the paper years ago announcing his birth in the US even though he wasn't born hear, they.....
PaulS is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:05 AM   #8
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
as usual, totally missing the point.
We're at war, no plan for Afhanistan and the President is going to lobby for the Olympics in his home state. Which, UNDENIABLY will benefit the people that supported his political rise. The first time EVER a president has done this. So, instead of responding as Obots, think....how would you feel if your 19yr old was in the back of a hummer riding through some town outside of Kabul??? Its about priorities.

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:10 AM   #9
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
responding as Obots, .
that is beautiful!
scottw is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:12 AM   #10
Fly Rod
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Fly Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gloucester Massachusetts
Posts: 2,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimmer View Post
A very conservative individual posed this as true this morning that if Chicago gets the games then a female friend of the Obamas stand to make a huge amount of money from land she owns where the games will be held. Anyone confirm or deny this? It is hard to imagine something as dastardly as this could occur. I didn't hear it anywhere else but from this one person. He is well-read though.
Thanks for the compliment, being well-read.

But, I didn't tell you.
Fly Rod is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:19 AM   #11
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
they need a slogan....

CHICAGO SUMMER OLYMPICS..."YOU CAN WIN ON THE TRACK AND BE BEATEN IN THE STREETS"
scottw is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:28 AM   #12
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,194
He's capable of multi tasking.

I was in Detroit for the NCAA final 4 this year. I didn't feel unsafe for 1 minute and I'm sure the crime rate is much worse.
PaulS is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:31 AM   #13
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,194
maybe he's using a PTO day?
PaulS is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:33 AM   #14
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
BTW - jobs report out. Biggest sector loss? Construction! The one area Obama said his stimulus would benefit.
I know, I know, the losses would have been MORE if we didnt spend billions. So for this whole transparency thing...has the Big O provided an update on the 760 BBBBBBilllion? Just wonderin?

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:46 AM   #15
fishbones
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
fishbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Easton, MA
Posts: 5,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
He's capable of multi tasking.

I was in Detroit for the NCAA final 4 this year. I didn't feel unsafe for 1 minute and I'm sure the crime rate is much worse.
Detroit would be a much better choice for the Olympics. There's a city that needs jobs and a stimulated economy a lot more than Chicago. And with all the very cheap available real estate (by that I mean burned down city blocks), it wouldn't cost as much as it will in Chicago.

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
fishbones is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:50 AM   #16
fishbones
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
fishbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Easton, MA
Posts: 5,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
BTW - jobs report out. Biggest sector loss? Construction! The one area Obama said his stimulus would benefit.
I know, I know, the losses would have been MORE if we didnt spend billions. So for this whole transparency thing...has the Big O provided an update on the 760 BBBBBBilllion? Just wonderin?

If you look on the Bureau of Labor Statistics site, you can see that the only area where there has been a net gain in jobs since this administration took office, is............






You guessed it!

GOVERNMENT

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
fishbones is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 09:24 AM   #17
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
Detroit would be a much better choice for the Olympics. There's a city that needs jobs and a stimulated economy a lot more than Chicago. And with all the very cheap available real estate (by that I mean burned down city blocks), it wouldn't cost as much as it will in Chicago.
there's a lot more to do in Chicago.

One thing that suprised me about Detroit was that while I am sure I wasn't near the worse neighborhoods was that it didn't look real bad. We would be driving by a lower (working) class area and the houses looked maintained but then you would notice a window broken here and there which obv. indicated that the house was abandoned. Even downtown there were buildings with no tenants but they still looked like it wouldn't cost much to fix them up.
PaulS is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 09:32 AM   #18
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post

We would be driving by a lower (working) class area and the houses looked maintained but then you would notice a window broken here and there which obv. indicated that the house was abandoned. Even downtown there were buildings with no tenants but they still looked like it wouldn't cost much to fix them up.
I think during the Clinton Administration they referred to these as Empowerment Zones

The Empowerment Zone Program consists of three US congressional designations [1]. The Renewal Communities (RCs), Empowerment Zones (EZs) and Enterprise Communities (ECs) are highly distressed urban and rural communities who maybe eligible for a combination of grants, tax credits for businesses, bonding authority and other benefits. Highly distressed refers to communities who have experienced poverty and/or high outmigration based upon definitions in the law. These designations, RCs, EZs and ECs were awarded in three competitions since 1994. The program ends on December 31, 2009.

in otherwords, places where we continue to shovel tons of taxpayer money with absolutely no result because the elected heirarchy are completely corrupt...I don't thein the residents will ever be "empowered" but they get what the vote for don't they?
scottw is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 10:41 AM   #19
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
Seriously....
Jimmy's is really the only salient post in this thread...

we came out of 8 years with an administration equally as full of cronies and daddy's friends as we've probably had, and you're pissed because someone that Obama knew and worked with in Chicago might make money on the Olympics?

I hate to beat the Bush did it too branch, even I get tired of it, but we were in two wars and economic meltdown during Bush's years, and he spent how many weeks in Crawford? BHO takes less than a day and half to go overseas and promote a great event for America to host and you guys are pissed??? If he stayed for a week on vacation you might have a leg to stand on.....

Mountain out of a 'no'hill....

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 10:41 AM   #20
UserRemoved1
Permanently Disconnected
iTrader: (-9)
 
UserRemoved1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,647
Done deal they're out.

Drudge headline LOL

WORLD REJECTS OBAMA: CHICAGO OUT IN FIRST ROUND
THE EGO HAS LANDED
UserRemoved1 is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 10:51 AM   #21
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
oh man this is gonna be good!...those are gonna be a pissed off couple o' Obama's.....are they flying back separately...what did all of this cost the taxpayers? did they purchase carbon off-sets while over there for all of the jet fuel to take them and their entourage on their little trip or are those things just for the little people?
scottw is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 11:21 AM   #22
eastendlu
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
eastendlu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Fork
Posts: 2,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
as usual, totally missing the point.
We're at war, no plan for Afhanistan and the President is going to lobby for the Olympics in his home state. Which, UNDENIABLY will benefit the people that supported his political rise. The first time EVER a president has done this. So, instead of responding as Obots, think....how would you feel if your 19yr old was in the back of a hummer riding through some town outside of Kabul??? Its about priorities.
I would think that one reason they are fighting for is for us to have the freedom to hold the olympics here.And past presidents have also lobbied for having the olympics here Obama was the first to go and do it in person.I guess he figured its better to talk to people face to face to try and get them held here than to hide behind his desk and send a letter.

Originally Posted by Flaptail
"Throw plugs like we do that will cause them to suffer humility. Pogies make any fisherman look good when bass are around. Bait is easy."
eastendlu is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 11:23 AM   #23
fishbones
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
fishbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Easton, MA
Posts: 5,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
Seriously....
Jimmy's is really the only salient post in this thread...

we came out of 8 years with an administration equally as full of cronies and daddy's friends as we've probably had, and you're pissed because someone that Obama knew and worked with in Chicago might make money on the Olympics?

I hate to beat the Bush did it too branch, even I get tired of it, but we were in two wars and economic meltdown during Bush's years, and he spent how many weeks in Crawford? BHO takes less than a day and half to go overseas and promote a great event for America to host and you guys are pissed??? If he stayed for a week on vacation you might have a leg to stand on.....

Mountain out of a 'no'hill....

And Jimmy's is still the only salient post in this thread.

Remember Bryan that this is about Obama and not Bush. You need to show valid reasons for supporting what Obama does. You can't rationalize things he does by saying that "well, Bush did this" or "Bush did that, too".

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
fishbones is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 11:52 AM   #24
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastendlu View Post
I guess he figured its better to talk to people face to face to try and get them held here than to hide behind his desk and send a letter.
you mean...teleprompter to face
scottw is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:11 PM   #25
eastendlu
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
eastendlu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Fork
Posts: 2,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
you mean...teleprompter to face
Good one.

Originally Posted by Flaptail
"Throw plugs like we do that will cause them to suffer humility. Pogies make any fisherman look good when bass are around. Bait is easy."
eastendlu is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:12 PM   #26
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastendlu View Post
I would think that one reason they are fighting for is for us to have the freedom to hold the olympics here.And past presidents have also lobbied for having the olympics here Obama was the first to go and do it in person.I guess he figured its better to talk to people face to face to try and get them held here than to hide behind his desk and send a letter.
Your right. We're constantly hearing how our soldiers are fighting over there so we can lead normal lives here. The pres. takes a day off to help promote something for his home town and the losers moan about his taking a day off when we just had a pres. who took months worth of vacation days each year (I know but but Bush). worse then double standards.
PaulS is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:23 PM   #27
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
Remember Bryan that this is about Obama and not Bush. You need to show valid reasons for supporting what Obama does. You can't rationalize things he does by saying that "well, Bush did this" or "Bush did that, too".
OK, I support this move because it may help to bring the Olympics to the USA in 2016. Tell me that in 2002 or 1996 when they were in ATL or Salt Lake you didn't think it was great to have that occurring on US soil!

I see zero reason why it is a negative for him to do that. While Jimmy is right there are a lot of big irons in the fire, a day of USA promotion is not a big deal! I highly doubt they shut the cell phones off on Air Force 1!!!

(Zero mention of Bush there)

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:40 PM   #28
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;715273]

a day of USA promotion is not a big deal!
QUOTE]

it's about time....especially since he spent nearly the last two years telling everyone that would listen that America sucks....no wonder they didn't want to send the Olympics here, probably heard that our health care system is in crisis and that our infant mortality, life expectancy and overall satisfaction rate is PATHETIC and other countries were probably worried that their athletes might die in our crappy hospitals...

craps on America when it benefits him...

praises(sort of) America when it benefits him...

it's all about him...

it's fun to hear the suck up media in abject disbelief and misery over the failure of their master...
scottw is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:46 PM   #29
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
doesnt matter, he lost
So much for international Obama luv. Didnt work on the industrialized nations controlling the olympic commitee, but dont worry, Im sure it will work on Iran.

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:49 PM   #30
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
oh well.....back to work wrecking America
scottw is offline  
 

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com