Israel and World War Three

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Just because someones a solid gut doesnt mean i cant challenge his views.

Skippy, you're not really challenging my views...but rather spitting up
ad hominem fragments and regurgitated partisan whackery.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by clambelly

...the terrorist groups are enabled by the left and their sympathic view points towards them, and their blantent hatred for Isreal.

Which doesn't exactly explain why the vast majority of Jews traditionally vote Democratic now does it?

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

Yes the world is about to go boom, war is good for the economy you know, and when it's all over and the world scene is a different place we will lick our wounds and somehow come to the realization that we were wrong and eventually tee shirts, hats, sneakers, electronics and just about everything else will carry a label made in Iran, made in Iraq made in Syria just like now going to Old Navy and buying shirts made in Viet Nam.

A refreshing voice of reason



-spence

[Skitterpop]

Rockhoppingmike using different sign on names

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

And how exactly am I on the wrong side of this issue? Simply because I put the welfare of 300 million americans ahead of 6 million Israelis?

I'd like you to let me know what side of this issue I'm on, because I don't think you really have a clue

-spence

You somehow think condemning Miltary action against Terrorists (which is exactly what Israel is doing) is in anyway aiding the welfare of 300 million American?

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

You somehow think condemning Miltary action against Terrorists (which is exactly what Israel is doing) is in anyway aiding the welfare of 300 million American?

Depends...If the Israeli actions are more punitive in nature or are disproportionate then they certainly could do more harm to the fragile situation in the reigon, which would negatively impact Americans...

Certianly our defense of some Israeli behavior over the years has dramatically fueled anti-US tension and contributed largely to 9/11. At the time some of these policy decisions may have looked to be beneficial, but with hindsight there has been a cost.

In the context of current events, do we learn from history or continue to potentially repeat the same mistakes?

-spence

[chris L]

jesus was jewish
satan was a palestinian


how about them Irish ?

must be St Patrick who was actually Italian

[clambelly]

US vetoes UN resolution urging end to Israeli attacks in Gaza
Jul 13 3:50 PM US/Eastern


The United States vetoed a UN draft resolution that would have called for an end to Israeli attacks and "disproportionate use of force" in the Gaza Strip as well as for the release of a kidnapped Israeli soldier.

The Security Council resolution received 10 votes, one against from the United States with four abstentions, French Ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere, the council president for July, announced.



Explaining his negative vote, US Ambassador John Bolton described the text as "unbalanced" and was "not only untimely but also outmoded" because of the attacks against Israel by Lebanese Hezbollah militants and UN chief Kofi Annan's decision to send a crisis team to the region.

He said adoption of the resolution would have exacerbated tensions in the region and would have undermined "our vision of two democratic states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security."

The United States, Israel's staunchest ally, last used its veto in the Security Council in October 2004, to block a similar draft demanding that Israel end all military operations in northern Gaza and withdraw from the area.

hmm...seems i said something to this effect a little earlier today...

Originally Posted by clambelly

the UN and the EU almost always lay the blame for these things right in the lap of Isreal. its like being an older brother and having a little brother who is always causing trouble. you smack the kid down when he's doing something wrong and mom and dad tell you that its your fault for hitting him.

[spence]

Originally Posted by clambelly

hmm...seems i said something to this effect a little earlier today...

Not really, the resolution is saying that Israel's actions are potentially reckless and may cause unecessary instability...not that they are entirely to blame for the situation.

Regardless, the US needs to step in here and show some leadership. Freaking planet is going to hell in a handbasket and Bush is running blind

-spence

["uffah!!"]

Spence:

[spence]

!!



-spence

["uffah!!"]

Spence:

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, what goes around comes around...those hostages might have never been taken had the US not meddeled so much in the Iranian government

-spence

Yep those hostages deserved it alright.

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Yep those hostages deserved it alright.

Here ya go...

http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Here ya go...

http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm

-spence

Thanks for that but this seems more relevant to your post


http://blameamerica.com/

[Bronko]

This is the lamest segue into your ultimate agenda you have ever come up with. Although it took longer than it ususally does, your undying blind hatred for the man can never really be contained. I knew it would only be another post or two until you were back in lockstep with the "party."




"""[QUOTE=spence]Not really, the resolution is saying that Israel's actions are potentially reckless and may cause unecessary instability...not that they are entirely to blame for the situation.

Regardless, the US needs to step in here and show some leadership. Freaking planet is going to hell in a handbasket and Bush is running blind """




lol...talk about regurgitated partisan whackery.

The beauty of this situation is the liberals are attempting to weigh in on a subject that they can't understand at home in the states. The power of religion. Watching liberals trying understand religion, faith, fanaticism is like watching a Greek tragedy. Religion is their party's biggest tragic flaw on the homefront. Its the reason they lost the last two elections and will lose the next one as well. But there they are everyday espousing their knowledge about religious conflicts that have been around since the begining of time.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

.

Regardless, the US needs to step in here and show some leadership. Freaking planet is going to hell in a handbasket and Bush is running blind

-spence

Spence, isnt that what you constantly refer to as US "meddling"?

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Not really, the resolution is saying that Israel's actions are potentially reckless and may cause unecessary instability...not that they are entirely to blame for the situation.

Regardless, the US needs to step in here and show some leadership. Freaking planet is going to hell in a handbasket and Bush is running blind

-spence

Souinds like ad hominem fragments and regurgitated partisan whackery.

[Skitterpop]

Most of this thread is not discussion but oneupmanship and personal attacks....myself included


I have never wondered why different countries with different religions or politics could`nt get along....seeing how most families cannot attain a sensible peace on such a lesser scale.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If this conflict in the Middle East gets to where Iran and Syria are actively involved that will be a hurricane of destruction.

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Thanks for that but this seems more relevant to your post


http://blameamerica.com/

Oh yes, because I'm objective I must hate America...how nice

Typically I only assign infallibility to gods and kings, but if you think you're deserving then so be it.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by Bronko

This is the lamest segue into your ultimate agenda you have ever come up with. Although it took longer than it ususally does, your undying blind hatred for the man can never really be contained. I knew it would only be another post or two until you were back in lockstep with the "party."

Bronko, what exactly is my "ultimate agenda"?

And please don't bother me with the "hate Bush" mantra...it's just a lame excuse to avoid real policy failings under the current Adminitration.

I love it...under this Administration the size of the Federal Government is out of control, we have record deficits, a complete failure to plan for looming energy and educational crisis, the influence of special interests has doubled, our Constitution is under attack and our government becomes more authoritarian every moment, we've invested hundreds of billions of our tax money and thousands of US lives for an ill-planned and reckless war that's weakened our armed forces, our great country has completely lost our international moral high-ground and neutered our ability to influence geopolitical events...

And Bronko thinks I simply have a partisan personality problem with George W. Bush!!!

Wake up.

The beauty of this situation is the liberals are attempting to weigh in on a subject that they can't understand at home in the states. The power of religion. Watching liberals trying understand religion, faith, fanaticism is like watching a Greek tragedy. Religion is their party's biggest tragic flaw on the homefront. Its the reason they lost the last two elections and will lose the next one as well. But there they are everyday espousing their knowledge about religious conflicts that have been around since the begining of time.

Did ya hear this on Hannity?

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Spence, isnt that what you constantly refer to as US "meddling"?

No. Open diplomacy isn't the same as aiding anti-communist coups or proping up sympathetic and brutal regimes.

-spence

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Most of this thread is not discussion but oneupmanship and personal attacks....myself included


I have never wondered why different countries with different religions or politics could`nt get along....seeing how most families cannot attain a sensible peace on such a lesser scale.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If this conflict in the Middle East gets to where Iran and Syria are actively involved that will be a hurricane of destruction.

I know my posts are most DEFINITELY not personal. I am an independent conservative. I am having beers tonight with a Bush supporter and two raging democratic liberals... I like nothing more than debating and the free flow of ideas. I generally do less of it during the fishing season, but sometimes with hot-button issues I can't resist. Spence's posts are always well though out and insightful, the guy knows his stuff. He is clearly wrong.... but intelligent and eloquent nonetheless.

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by spence

Bronko, what exactly is my "ultimate agenda"?

And please don't bother me with the "hate Bush" mantra...it's just a lame excuse to avoid real policy failings under the current Adminitration.


Did ya hear this on Hannity?

-spence

100% my own words. I never watch the Hannity/Carlson/Graham/Severin crowd. They are as brutal as the Bill Mahers and James Carvilles of the world. I just read a lot.

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by Bronko

Spence's posts are always well thought out and insightful, the guy knows his stuff. He is clearly right but I`ll be damned if I will agree with him.... he is also very well dressed, intelligent, and eloquent.

I`m glad you said that

[spence]

Originally Posted by Bronko

Spence's posts are always well though out and insightful, the guy knows his stuff. He is clearly wrong.... but intelligent and eloquent nonetheless.

To be honest I think you're taking the easy road and applying lame stereotypes to my positions where they don't belong. Clearly from your posts you don't understand where I sit.

There really are few pure liberal vs conservative arguments, it's all very nuanced. The pathetic level of debate in this country is causing people to ignore the nuance and apply black and white rules to very complex problems. This doesn't work in business, and it shouldn't be tolerated in politics, at least not if we want an effective government.

Would you think it fair if I labeled you a greedy authoritarian warmonger simply because you supported the Administration and the war in Iraq?

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Oh yes, because I'm objective I must hate America...how nice

Typically I only assign infallibility to gods and kings, but if you think you're deserving then so be it.

-spence

Hate America? Your words not mine.
Here ya go http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm

It's not a hate thing its a blame thing. Typical of the Left it seems you start with the assumption that America is first to blame for any international strife and then begin an analytical process from there. Unless of course in the case a Republican administration is in power then the process remains frozen at blame America first.

[Skitterpop]

Is this thread about our views or whats going on over there?

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Typical of the Left it seems you start with the assumption that America is first to blame for any international strife and then begin an analytical process from there. Unless of course in the case a Republican administration is in power then the process remains frozen at blame America first.

This really has nothing to do with Democrats and Republicans.

The Left was against Clinton for his support of globalization and free trade.

It has everything to do with the notion that because America does something it must be good or right. The believe that your own %$%$%$%$ doesn't stink...

But it's precisely the awareness that our tremendous influence in the world can in fact do great harm that has afforded our country so much success. Certainly this has been forgotten at times, and regardless of our intentions the lessons shouldn't be ignored.

It's not about blame, it's about reality.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

I truly think this has NOTHING to do with the US. These are Isreals actions and not ours.
But, Hezzballoh is a terrorist organization and if Isreal wipes them out, I think its good. I am not for war, I am against it. but my entire life I have heard "Mid East Peace Talks" 100 times, with NO true progress. WHat has diplomacy resolved? Nothing. We could not negotiate with the Nazis on genocide, they needed to be erradicated. i think the same holds true for islamicterrorism. The concept that the US should be lead this diplomtic effort and over time our enemies will become our friends, holds no water, we have in the past (carter/clinton peace talks) and it got us and the region no where.