turkey already bombing syria

[Jim in CT]

that didn’t take long. wow.

turkey is saying that the kurds who helped us defeat isis, are conspiring with kurdish terrorists within turkey. anyone have any idea if that’s true?

[Pete F.]

Don't worry Lindsey is sending them thoughts and prayers.
And when Congress gets back from recess he'll sanction Turkey, Erdogan is sweating bullets.
Is that like dropping bombs?

Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
Pray for our Kurdish allies who have been shamelessly abandoned by the Trump Administration. This move ensures the reemergence of ISIS.
10:37 AM · Oct 9, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

[Nebe]

It’s funny you are skeptical of turkey trying to assign Kurdish terrorist threats within their boarders, yet blindly side with trump’s border issues as a threat to our safety.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

It’s funny you are skeptical of turkey trying to assign Kurdish terrorist threats within their boarders, yet blindly side with trump’s border issues as a threat to our safety.
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that’s because i know how to think. i don’t always assume one person or one side is always correct or always wrong. which is why i side with liberals on some big issues ( gay marriage).

if you don’t think our southern border has been a huge problem
for both the US and those, especially women, making the crossing (30% of
whom are being assaulted according to some data), i think that says a lot more about you, then
it does about me.

Sometimes I think Trump is correct, sometimes I think he's wrong. That's funny to you. Please tell me, by what logic, should I assume that either he's right 100% of the time, or wrong 100% of the time.

Do you guys on the left here, really not see that you're the exact mirror image of Sean Hannity? How do you not see that? You're exactly as thoughtless, predictable, and close minded as he is.
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

that’s because i know how to think. i don’t always assume one person or one side is always correct or always wrong. which is why i side with liberals on some big issues ( gay marriage).

if you don’t think our southern border has been a huge problem
for both the US and those, especially women, making the crossing (30% of
whom are being assaulted according to some data), i think that says a lot more about you, then
it does about me.

Sometimes I think Trump is correct, sometimes I think he's wrong. That's funny to you. Please tell me, by what logic, should I assume that either he's right 100% of the time, or wrong 100% of the time.

Do you guys on the left here, really not see that you're the exact mirror image of Sean Hannity? How do you not see that? You're exactly as thoughtless, predictable, and close minded as he is.
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I’m close minded? Lol
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

within their boarders, yet blindly side with trump’s border issues

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batting .500

[afterhours]

Bad move by Trump imo, you don't hang friends out to die. I somehow see Turkey and Iran rumbling in Syria and maybe that's his endgame???

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by afterhours

Bad move by Trump imo, you don't hang friends out to die. I somehow see Turkey and Iran rumbling in Syria and maybe that's his endgame???

Best odds of WW3 in our generation
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Best odds of WW3 in our generation
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Drama queen much?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

that didn’t take long. wow.

turkey is saying that the kurds who helped us defeat isis, are conspiring with kurdish terrorists within turkey. anyone have any idea if that’s true?

Similar to the struggles between the UK and Northern Ireland, just goes back a lot longer in time and has been more violent.

If you guys don't understand why so many see Trump as a threat to national security now I doubt you ever will. He has no idea what he's doing and making snap decisions in a vacuum. It's dangerous.

[Pete F.]

When Trump is done history books will read: Prior to the Trump Administration the United States was the dominant world power.

China has reacted positively to Russia's call for a regional coalition to ensure security in the Persian Gulf as the United States and Iran have pursued their own rival agendas there.

Moscow first introduced "the concept of providing collective security in the Persian Gulf area" in July as tensions between Washington and Tehran neared an all-out crisis. Russian President Vladimir Putin officially proposed Thursday that "a security and cooperation organization be created in the region almost from scratch." He suggested that "Russia, China, the U.S., the EU, India and other interested countries could join as observers."

Asked about this idea, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang declined to "offer a principled response before checking for more information" at a press conference Tuesday, but said Beijing was open to such considerations.

"China has been closely following the complex and sensitive situation in the Gulf region," Geng added. "Safeguarding peace and stability in the region is in the shared interests of the international community. China welcomes all proposals and diplomatic efforts conducive to deescalating the situation in the Gulf region. We would also like to stay in communication with all relevant parties."

[Pete F.]

WH puts out a brilliant statement and remember military operations of this scale take time to put in place. The phone call was on Sunday. Maybe Trump will draw another red line.

"This morning, Turkey, a NATO member, invaded Syria. The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea."

[PaulS]

Another case of us abandoning our allies.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Another case of us abandoning our allies.

And the probable release of 10,000 ISIS fighters...

[Pete F.]

Turkey says Trump knew ‘precisely’ about scope of N. Syria operation. “President Trump and President Erdogan have reached an understanding over precisely what this operation is,” Gulnur Aybet, Senior Adviser to the President of Turkey

[nightfighter]

Pete, I read and consider your point of view often enough to almost know what rhetoric to expect in the New Posts every morning... But I had to take exception with your following post;

Moscow first introduced "the concept of providing collective security in the Persian Gulf area" in July

Believe nothing coming out of that country as long as Putin reigns. He is of same cloth as Stalin. Beware.... Not as large an economic potential problem as China, but we know who/what he is... Ex KGB, flying warplanes in the same skies as ours in support of Assad, after invading Ukraine despite the world's protests.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Pete, I read and consider your point of view often enough to almost know what rhetoric to expect in the New Posts every morning... But I had to take exception with your following post;

Moscow first introduced "the concept of providing collective security in the Persian Gulf area" in July

Believe nothing coming out of that country as long as Putin reigns. He is of same cloth as Stalin. Beware.... Not as large an economic potential problem as China, but we know who/what he is... Ex KGB, flying warplanes in the same skies as ours in support of Assad, after invading Ukraine despite the world's protests.

I don’t disagree
Though I would say Putin has far better apparatchik than Stalin
I worry about our position in the world order that Trump is unknowingly throwing away.
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[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

WH puts out a brilliant statement and remember military operations of this scale take time to put in place. The phone call was on Sunday. Maybe Trump will draw another red line.

"This morning, Turkey, a NATO member, invaded Syria. The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea."

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Turkey says Trump knew ‘precisely’ about scope of N. Syria operation. “President Trump and President Erdogan have reached an understanding over precisely what this operation is,” Gulnur Aybet, Senior Adviser to the President of Turkey

And I think Trump did know what was to come and what if my son or daughter were one of the fifty pulled out in advance??? I see both sides of the coin, and he is in the seat of no good options. But fifty Americans are not enough to have made a difference in the face of this operation and would have been a horrible, needless sacrifice if he had not pulled them out...

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

But fifty Americans are not enough to have made a difference in the face of this operation and would have been a horrible, needless sacrifice if he had not pulled them out...

People keep talking about the number of US troops, remember we have a major air base in Turkey providing air support to the Kurds fighting ISIS. Now Syria and Russia will be able to hammer whomever they want.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

And I think Trump did know what was to come and what if my son or daughter were one of the fifty pulled out in advance??? I see both sides of the coin, and he is in the seat of no good options. But fifty Americans are not enough to have made a difference in the face of this operation and would have been a horrible, needless sacrifice if he had not pulled them out...

We have the big hammer and if it is worth nothing why do we commit far more of our GDP than any other country. Keep in mind that the Citrus Caligula brags falsely of providing ammunition that he claims was not there prior to his administration. Lying as usual
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[Got Stripers]

Turkey wasn’t going to invade at the risk of harming US service men and women, one phone call with Trump clears the path, with as you noted risking setting free 10000 hard core enemies; very bad move IMHO. What is more disturbing to me is that this was for one of two political reasons, to fulfill a campaign promise or to distract attention from the impeachment inquiry.
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[Got Stripers]

Turkey wanted our support troops out, that was the only obstacle to them taking it to the Kurds. Could it be as simple as this president compromised by his family’s business interests, they own twin towers in Istanbul and it’s reported over 118 other interests in ongoing business ventures. I believe he is at his core corrupt and ran for two reasons, fame and family fortune.
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[spence]

I see nobody has any justification for why this is a good idea.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I see nobody has any justification for why this is a good idea.
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says a lot about where you are looking.

i’m not saying it was a good idea, but i looked to see what arguments were being made by those who support it ( rand paul, etc).

trump campaigned very specifically on bringing home troops rather than leaving them in endless conflict. you guys like to attack him for failing to meet campaign promises, this is one he kept. trump can argue this is why people voted for him.

as i understand it, we were authorized to have troops in syria to combat ISIS. as i understand it, that mission was accomplished some months ago. if congress wants to expand the scope of that mission, they should
go on record and vote for it.

i also don’t feel like i know who the good guys are in this conflict. are the kurds good guys, or was it an “enemy of my enemy” situation. turkey says the kurds are engaging in terrorism in turkey, you made it sound like a britain/northern ireland situation.

americans are dying there. trump made it clear in his campaign that he wasn’t sacrificing american lives unless there was an immediate vital
interest to the us. killing isis fighters qualifies. standing around, waiting to get sucked into a regional conflict with another nato member? not sure if that qualifies.

and if trump claimed
we were staying there until the end no matter what, at least some of you would
be calling him a warmonger.

if you can’t see where the other side is coming from, it’s because your eyes are closed and your fingers are in your ears. and again, i’m not saying i support the move, not at all. but i took the time
to see both sides.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

says a lot about where you are looking.

i’m not saying it was a good idea, but i looked to see what arguments were being made by those who support it ( rand paul, etc).

trump campaigned very specifically on bringing home troops rather than leaving them in endless conflict. you guys like to attack him for failing to meet campaign promises, this is one he kept. trump can argue this is why people voted for him.

as i understand it, we were authorized to have troops in syria to combat ISIS. as i understand it, that mission was accomplished some months ago. if congress wants to expand the scope of that mission, they should
go on record and vote for it.

i also don’t feel like i know who the good guys are in this conflict. are the kurds good guys, or was it an “enemy of my enemy” situation. turkey says the kurds are engaging in terrorism in turkey, you made it sound like a britain/northern ireland situation.

The US approached the Syrian civil war with caution. Though opposed to the regime of President Bashar al-Assad, its chief concern was that the chaos there provided ungoverned space for the expansion of the so-called caliphate of Islamic State (ISIS).

With its focus on counter-terrorism rather than re-making Syria, the US looked to find an ally who could mount a serious challenge to the fighters of ISIS. Various abortive attempts at arming and training local militias failed - in some cases US weapons were simply handed over to ISIS.

Finally Washington turned to the Kurds. This presented diplomatic problems. There are significant Kurdish populations in several Middle Eastern countries, including Turkey, Syria and Iraq. Many aspire to Kurdish nationhood. After the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, President Woodrow Wilson supported the idea of an independent Kurdish state, but this dream fell apart when Turkish borders were redrawn in 1923. Denied a homeland of their own, the Kurdish diaspora ended up spread across Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran, facing pressure and often outright hostility in countries that viewed them with suspicion.

Across the border in Syria a Kurdish group known as the YPG had some links with the PKK (bad guys) in Turkey. And it was the YPG that formed the core element of the mixed Kurdish and Arab militia that Washington decided to throw its weight behind.

Kurdish internal politics are undoubtedly complex. And it is interesting that President Trump himself mixed up these two Kurdish groups - the PKK and the YPG.

But in Turkish minds there is no difference. For Ankara Kurdish groups are terrorists and thus Washington was effectively siding with enemies of the Turkish state.

Washington's decision to support the Kurds with training and equipment reaped dividends. They proved both reliable and capable and the dismantling of the ISIS caliphate in Syria owes much to their efforts.

Simultaneously the US has sought to bend over backwards to calm Turkish fears, most recently developing a pattern of joint patrols between US and Turkish troops as a confidence-building measure in the border area. It is these US forces that were withdrawn ahead of the Turkish operation.

americans are dying there. trump made it clear in his campaign that he wasn’t sacrificing american lives unless there was an immediate vital
interest to the us. killing isis fighters qualifies. standing around, waiting to get sucked into a regional conflict with another nato member? not sure if that qualifies.

and if trump claimed
we were staying there until the end no matter what, at least some of you would
be calling him a warmonger.

if you can’t see where the other side is coming from, it’s because your eyes are closed and your fingers are in your ears. and again, i’m not saying i support the move, not at all. but i took the time
to see both sides.
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President Trump has decided that now the Kurds do not count for much and, despite his denials, he has given the Turks a green light to mount this operation by failing to make it clear to Ankara that this partnership really mattered to Washington.

He had that chance and if he was properly prebriefed with talking points and made aware of the ramifications of his actions possibly he would not have folded like a cheap suitcase.

This is not the first time that the Kurds see themselves as having been f-ed by Washington. At least twice before when Iraqi Kurds were encouraged to rise up against the authorities in Baghdad by the Americans they were let down.

If Trump is to be taken at his word, alliances - whether it be with the Kurds or even within Nato - are for him simply transactional business arrangements to be judged according to a short-term cost-benefit analysis: what is the US giving and what is it getting in return?

The US tried every other option before backing the Kurds. The Kurds have proved time and again their capability as a disciplined, effective fighting force and their commitment to the kind of stable, moderate governance that is sorely lacking in the region.

In writing off the Kurds he suggests that the US can easily find other allies in the region. Really?

If there is a resurgence of ISIS then who is Washington going to turn to?

We will end up sending those young men that you claim to not want there because Trump at a minimum did not pay attention or used his great and wonderful brain instead of listening to people with experience in the area.

We will likely be tangled up in the Middle East either for a long time semipeacefully or until it deteriorates into a major conflict and the #^&#^&#^&#^& hits the fan.
Who knew that governing would be so complicated, you can't do it by tweeting and bullying.
It looks like it could be very close to fan time.

[Pete F.]

Pay attention
I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken.

"I am ashamed for the first time in my career."
This veteran US Special forces soldier has trained indigenous forces on multiple continents. He is on the frontlines tonight and said they are witnessing Turkish atrocities.

"Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It's horrible," this military source on the ground told me.
"We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement. There was NO threat to the Turks - NONE - from this side of the border." "This is insanity," the concerned US service member told me. ""I don't know what they call atrocities but they are happening."
This American soldier told me the Kurds have not left their positions guarding the ISIS prisoners. In fact "they prevented a prison break last night without us."
"They are not abandoning our side (yet)."
The Kurds are "pleading for our support." We are doing "nothing."
Troops on the ground in Syria and their commanders were "surprised" by the decision Sunday night.
Of the President's decision: "He doesn't understand the problem. He doesn't understand the repercussions of this. Erdogan is an Islamist, not a level headed actor."
Acc to this US soldier on the ground tonight in Syria: "The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone. "It's a shame. It's horrible." "This is not helping the ISIS fight." Re: ISIS prisoners: "Many of them will be free in the coming days and weeks."
This US Special Forces soldier wanted me to know: "The Kurds are sticking by us. No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."
Disappointed in the decisions coming from their senior leaders.

Keep believing in Putin’s Puppet
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Pay attention
I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken.

"I am ashamed for the first time in my career."
This veteran US Special forces soldier has trained indigenous forces on multiple continents. He is on the frontlines tonight and said they are witnessing Turkish atrocities.

"Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It's horrible," this military source on the ground told me.
"We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement. There was NO threat to the Turks - NONE - from this side of the border." "This is insanity," the concerned US service member told me. ""I don't know what they call atrocities but they are happening."
This American soldier told me the Kurds have not left their positions guarding the ISIS prisoners. In fact "they prevented a prison break last night without us."
"They are not abandoning our side (yet)."
The Kurds are "pleading for our support." We are doing "nothing."
Troops on the ground in Syria and their commanders were "surprised" by the decision Sunday night.
Of the President's decision: "He doesn't understand the problem. He doesn't understand the repercussions of this. Erdogan is an Islamist, not a level headed actor."
Acc to this US soldier on the ground tonight in Syria: "The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone. "It's a shame. It's horrible." "This is not helping the ISIS fight." Re: ISIS prisoners: "Many of them will be free in the coming days and weeks."
This US Special Forces soldier wanted me to know: "The Kurds are sticking by us. No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."
Disappointed in the decisions coming from their senior leaders.

Keep believing in Putin’s Puppet
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I thought Faux News was the devil


"Jennifer Griffin (born 1969) is an American journalist who currently works as national security correspondent for Fox News."
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[Sea Dangles]

America 1st
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

America 1st
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Morality second.
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[Pete F.]

Trump gave Turkey the green light.

They took it.

Justify that
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