Red Sox Sign Crawford!!!

[The Dad Fisherman]

OK Then...who do we get out of the Free agent market??? There's no catchers worth a crap, Pena is gone and he wasn't the answer....a few more HR's but an anemic average.... We lost 2 bats for us.....we need somebody to score runs and help prevent runs...this guy does that. He's well rounded with a lot of the core tools. Speed, good bat, good defense....between him and Ellsbury there aren't going to be many balls dropping in the outfield...they'll get to them.

Guess what w/ the market these days....the next 50 HR guy you see will be commanding 35 mil a year.

There's no salary cap and its no surprise that salaries are through the roof....and if we don't get him somebody else will....its basic supply and demand.

and they also made their competition in the East less of a threat by taking him from Tampa....you know...the team that won the division last year...that right there is worth a few million.

and he's not with the Yank-mees either.....that is also worth a few million.

[BigFish]

We lost 2 bats because the Sox did not want to sign them......Beltre and Martinez were bonafide offensive players and they would have been bargains at their price compared to this guy!!! You keep proving my point Kevin......"Speed, good bat and good defense".........Key word is "GOOD"!!!! He is just good, marginal, average, standard......he is being paid "GREAT" money and he is far from great!

[BigFish]

I am hoping Mike P can make sense of this but I am going to bet he thinks Crawford was overpaid?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by BigFish

They need to get rid of a couple of "Albatross" contracts.....JD and Dice K. They both make way too much for what they give. Crawford is NOT a 20 mil a year player and that is for damn sure!!!! 20 mil a year players either hit 40+ dingers a year, drive in 130 and win an MVP award or they win 25 games and whiff 300 a season and win a CY!!! You can have Crawford....he is all yours.....I choose to think it was a horrible deal for what we will be getting......he is a Gold Glove First Baseman?????? Big Deal, they don't get much better than Youk at first???

19 homers and 107 RBI are his best for a season......20 mil a year???? Wow you guys are mad!

The Werth contract set the bar

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by chrisjoe13

Probably gonna see less and less 40+ HR guys as the years go on. This is the Post steroid era. There will be more and more well rounded players than in the past.

The last time the Redsox threw Crawford out stealing was 2004.

Also must comment on the "more well rounded players than in the past" comment!! There has not been a well rounded player in MLBB since Carl Yastrzemski won the last Triple Crown award in 1967!! Players used to be well rounded......and back in the day pre-1970.......there were so many well rounded players you could not swing a dead cat on the pitchers mound without striking 5 or 6 of them in a swing!!!! Players today can't carry the jock of players pre-1970! They were real baseball players....they not only had more talent in their little pinky finger than players have today but they played with heart, dedication, emotion and brains!!!!

[tysdad115]

Ill give it a go Larry. First is anyone really worth 20 million a year? No is the answer. Looking at what Crawford will do in this lineup is intriguing though. The best defensive outfielder available. His average stats SHOULD improve plus other intangibles runs scored, doubles triples etc. They overpaid due to market price and they prevented him from playing elsewhere for the same money.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[BigFish]

Nice try Andy. Next?

[ProfessorM]

God bless your wife
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[BigFish]

I find it curious nobody can make a case????

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I find it curious nobody can make a case????

Larry, he's worth $20 million because he just got a contract that pays him that. It's simple. Werth got $18 million and is 3 years older and played his home games in a much more hitter friendly park. You can't compare Greenwell to Crawford. Greenwell played when revenue was much lower, hence much lower contracts. Crawford gets a huge contract because he's the best available FA and people are willing to pay $95 for a ticket and $9.50 for a beer at the park.

[BigFish]

Still not justifying the deal???

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Still not justifying the deal???

Justifying a deal is different than making a case about whether a person is worth the money. I don't think anyone can justify why players make tens of millions of dollars playing a kids game.

What someone is worth is much simpler to figure out. A person is worth whatever they get paid. If a player is paid x $'s, they are worth it to whoever paid it. Just like anything else, the market dictates worth. Is a small piece of wood, some metal hardware and paint worth $30? Sure, because people are willing to pay that for a custom wooden plug. But, it doesn't mean that there won't be people complaining about it costing too much.

[afterhours]

i don't care what he makes- they're all overpaid imho. is he an average player- no he isn't. hits .300, gold glove fielder, steal 50 bases, drive in 80, cause picthers headaches when on base. i think he's going to be a great addition to this team and flourish with this lineup and ballpark.

[chrisjoe13]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Now that is one the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard Chris??? How old are you??? You do realize players used to hit 40 to 50 homers a year routinely and they were never on the juice!!! Mays, Aaron, Williams, Mantle, Maris, Jackson, Schmidt......ever hear of these guys? I need someone.....anyone to shine the light on this signing and try and express to me why Crawford is worth 20 million dollars a season and for the next 7 years no less????? Any takers??

My age is irrelevant but you are not much older. Pay attention to the game for the next decade and you will see for yourself.
Also, no player is worth 20 million but thats what it takes to build a team.

One more thing, (in regards to your condescending comments: my age, ever hear of these guys, and most ridiculous statetment you've ever heard, and I'm quoting you I think: If you don't have something good to say, shut your pie hole!

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by afterhours

i don't care what he makes- they're all overpaid imho. is he an average player- no he isn't. hits .300, gold glove fielder, steal 50 bases, drive in 80, cause picthers headaches when on base. i think he's going to be a great addition to this team and flourish with this lineup and ballpark.

Thank You....

[ProfessorM]

First off forget about the money. That is what good ball players make nowadays. Not 1968 anymore. Crazy?, yes. Would I like to see every team on an even playing field ? sure. Your not paying so who cares. They are still under the luxury tax.
Second why are you so against them trying to better themselves in the incredibly competitive division they are in. They have not even step foot on the field yet and already you are saying they blew it. Let them play the season out and then at the end of the year see what transpired and if it didn't work out then hey you got a legitimate gripe but to get so bent out of shape for something that hasn't even happened, actually playing a game, is nuts. Let it play out and see. I like the trade so far but I may be disgruntled by years end.Sometimes it is as important to keep him out of your competitions hands.
As far as developing your own players. Having a good farm system and developing young players there is as good for getting established players as it is for getting them on the field for the home team.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Now that is one the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard Chris??? How old are you??? You do realize players used to hit 40 to 50 homers a year routinely and they were never on the juice!!! Mays, Aaron, Williams, Mantle, Maris, Jackson, Schmidt......ever hear of these guys? I need someone.....anyone to shine the light on this signing and try and express to me why Crawford is worth 20 million dollars a season and for the next 7 years no less????? Any takers??

Larry, I had some time this morning so I looked up some numbers for you. I think most of us "older" folks look back fondly on the old days of baseball and the great players of our youth. What we don't realize is that their numbers are great for that time, but compared with the "steroid era", they aren't so eye popping.

Aaron - 8 seasons with 40+ hr's and none over 50 in 23 years.
Jackson - 1 season with 40+ and none with 50 in 22 years.
Maris - 1 season with 61 hr's and only 1 more with 30+ in 12 years.
Mantle - 4 seasons with over 40 hr's, with 2 of those being 50+ in 18 years.
Mays - 6 seasons with 40+ with 2 of them over 50 in 22 years.
Schmidt - 3 seasons with 40+ and 0 over 50 in 18 years.
Williams - 1 year with over 40 and 0 over 50 in 19 years.

I wouldn't say that any of these guys were "routinely" hitting 40 or 50 home runs per year. But all of these guys (with the exception of Maris) were considered great because they also did other things well, like running the bases and playing the field.

[spinncognito]

Forget about the money aspect and look at what has been lost/gained.

Lost- Martinez and Beltre

Gained- Gonzalez and Crawford

Both players gained are better than the ones lost(IMO) but the bigger question is by how much? Is Gonzalez significantly better than Martinez? Is Crawford significantly better than Beltre.

This is where the debate should be focused.

While I do think the club has improved, I do not know that it has significantly. Bottom line will be and always has been:

1.- Can they stay healthy as a group?
2.- Will enough players(especially the mid-level ones) have above average/career years to win another championship.

Last season was lost to injuries and the fact that no one went above and beyond yet they still won almost 90 games.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Don't know about the above and beyond....we got way more than we expected out of Beltre...if we didn't lose Youk and Pedroia for the rest of the season and Martinez for a substantial part of the season.....we would have probably made the playoffs.

there's also a lot to consider about the fact that Crawford will not be terrorizing us on the base paths....especially since it looks like we are going w/ Tek.....he just can't throw anybody out anymore.....now we can use him to terrorize Posada.

Gonzales and Beltre are a wash....there stats are pretty much identical. But Beltre would be looking for Big Dollars this year and we are only paying $6 mil to Gonzales....next year we may have to pony up for him though as he hits free agency.

Now Crawford's offense was far superior to Martinez. 90 rbi vs. 79 and 110 Runs vs 69 for a net gain of 52 runs for the year....all on the 2nd best offense in the league last year. And then there's Stolen bases where Crawford had 47 and Matinez had 1.....big improvement there for sure.

I'm liking the team for next year....they are in the toughest division in baseball......as long as they stay healthy we should be sitting pretty. Tampa bay has lost a lot this year....and so far the Yank-mees haven't done anything to improve over last year.

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Larry, I had some time this morning so I looked up some numbers for you. I think most of us "older" folks look back fondly on the old days of baseball and the great players of our youth. What we don't realize is that their numbers are great for that time, but compared with the "steroid era", they aren't so eye popping.

Aaron - 8 seasons with 40+ hr's and none over 50 in 23 years.
Jackson - 1 season with 40+ and none with 50 in 22 years.
Maris - 1 season with 61 hr's and only 1 more with 30+ in 12 years.
Mantle - 4 seasons with over 40 hr's, with 2 of those being 50+ in 18 years.
Mays - 6 seasons with 40+ with 2 of them over 50 in 22 years.
Schmidt - 3 seasons with 40+ and 0 over 50 in 18 years.
Williams - 1 year with over 40 and 0 over 50 in 19 years.

I wouldn't say that any of these guys were "routinely" hitting 40 or 50 home runs per year. But all of these guys (with the exception of Maris) were considered great because they also did other things well, like running the bases and playing the field.

During their prime years they were producing numbers players today only dream about and they were doing it again pitching that was tough day in and day out and makes todays pitchers look like the molly coddled cry babies that they are!!! I did not mean every year.....but I know the stats John.....by heart!!! Also...every one of those players you mentioned........multiple MVP awards for each one of them!!!!

[fishbones]

All the guys you mention were great players and are in the Hall of Fame, with the exception of Maris. Crawfords career average is either better than or within 9 points of all of them except Williams. He also plays in the AL East, which has a lot of very good pitchers. I'm not sure that the pitching back in the "old days" was that much better than it is now, either.

Is it a personal thing you have against Crawford?

[BigFish]

I give up....you guys enjoy! We will talk more in July I am sure!

[fishbones]

Larry, if I get tix to the DD suite at Fenway this summer, I'm taking you as my guest. The only catch is that you have to wear a Crawford jersey.

[ProfessorM]

Larry I believe you would never change your mind about anything once you set your mind to it, including water boarding , so I guess we will just have to wait till next oct. and see if you were right. Peace.

[Raider Ronnie]

HOW BOUT THEM BRUINS

[chrisjoe13]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I give up....you guys enjoy! We will talk more in July I am sure!

You are a true sox fan...after what we've been through (except the last 6 yrs), cynicism rules.

Peace out. (& go Pats!)

[ThomCat]

Originally Posted by BigFish

TomCat......you have been conspicuously absent! I have missed you....nice to have you back!!

Hey big guy. Had a real busy season. The fluke were flyin', the blackfish were bangin', the bassin' at the Island was great. Then I had this little health hic-cup about 6 or 7 weeks ago. Doin' pretty good now. A little paralysis on the left side but I can still crank the crank.
Catch'em up,
ThomCat