The Buffett Rule

[UserRemoved1]

News from The Associated Press

[spence]

Polls have consistently shown that Americans strongly support tax increases to reduce the deficit.

Even among Republicans 74% appear to believe some tax increases are necessary.

On Deficit, Americans Prefer Spending Cuts; Open to Tax Hikes

While both parties are going to have to get real about spending, the GOP leadership is out of step with the American people.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Polls have consistently shown that Americans strongly support tax increases to reduce the deficit.

Even among Republicans 74% appear to believe some tax increases are necessary.

On Deficit, Americans Prefer Spending Cuts; Open to Tax Hikes

While both parties are going to have to get real about spending, the GOP leadership is out of step with the American people.

-spence

Wow the top 4% pay 47% of the taxes and the poll shows that result. I guess 74% of us are ok with that

[UserRemoved1]

It's ALL HOCUS POCUS

News from The Associated Press

No matter how sorry JohnR and Spence feel about this guy, he's as dumb as a friggin turnip.

He really thinks this is real? This is his plan?

WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[RIJIMMY]

it make sense to change the capital gains tax for people making over 250K. The rate should be equal to other wages. Thats a simple fix and will generate billions.
it does not make sense to change the tax rate AND also limit deducitons and ALSO change the cap gains rate.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

It's ALL HOCUS POCUS

News from The Associated Press

No matter how sorry JohnR and Spence feel about this guy, he's as dumb as a friggin turnip.

He really thinks this is real? This is his plan?

WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Suppose the plan "works." Just put aside any Constitutional "objections" and any dynamic scoring of effects to economic production and any theoritical predictions of how it may affect the slide to more dependence on a stronger central power, etc., etc., what happens if the national debt is paid and the budget is in balance? If the plan stays in place, we will have arrived at a point where spending is down and taxes are up (which proves that the problem always was spending). The Federal Government will be awash in "revenue." Will it act responsibly? What will it do with all that money? Give it back? Cut taxes? INCREASE SPENDING? Hasn't all the spending to this point been, in the eyes of the spenders, responsible or in the interest of its constituents? What will stop the Federal Government from doing what it has always thought was responsible?

[buckman]

This is a plan to pay for an increase in spending not to balance the budget.

[UserRemoved]

Sure is. This doesn't fix anything. It's the same ol bloated bag of poo it was before it was enacted then where's it get us...nowhere

Originally Posted by buckman

This is a plan to pay for an increase in spending not to balance the budget.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

Polls have consistently shown that Americans strongly support tax increases to reduce the deficit.

Even among Republicans 74% appear to believe some tax increases are necessary.

On Deficit, Americans Prefer Spending Cuts; Open to Tax Hikes

While both parties are going to have to get real about spending, the GOP leadership is out of step with the American people.

-spence

Spence - from your link: 50% approve only custs or of some tax increases with mostly with spending cuts.
Only 11% support by mostly tax increases. Shape the Narrative

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

It's ALL HOCUS POCUS

News from The Associated Press

No matter how sorry JohnR and Spence feel about this guy, he's as dumb as a friggin turnip.

He really thinks this is real? This is his plan?

WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Not sure where you get me supporting him but I would rather see honest solutions that work regardless of who proposes.

Speaking of honest solutions, this is the cornerstone of his deficit program? Additional taxes + 1 trillion that was going to go away anyway is crappy math.

[UserRemoved1]

That was tongue in cheek John you said the other day you felt sympathy for him cuz I was calling him names

Crappy math....I been saying that here for about 2-3 months now. It's all fuzzy bs/hocus pocus. I don't think it's going to "fix" anything.. I don't have any say in the matter nor will his new taxes affect me, but I'm sure that there will be something thrown in there somewhere that will cost me more and more...that's the way it always works isn't it?

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Spence - from your link: 50% approve only custs or of some tax increases with mostly with spending cuts.
Only 11% support by mostly tax increases. Shape the Narrative

No, the poll supports my statement as written.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

No, the poll supports my statement as written.

-spence

If we are to be governed by mob opinion what is the future of individual liberty? On the other hand, the administration certainly doesn't care about being out of step with the American public on abortion or the so-called health care bill.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

If we are to be governed by mob opinion what is the future of individual liberty? On the other hand, the administration certainly doesn't care about being out of step with the American public on abortion or the so-called health care bill.

Are they?

On abortion I think the public consistently supports the right to an abortion with some divergence on restrictions.

Support for the Health Care Bill at the time of passage was over 50%. That Obama made many mistakes when promoting it doesn't change the fact that the public supports reform.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Are they?

Are you answering my question with a question? Before you respond to my question about your question to my original question, I will actually answer your question--using polls to decide on legislation would be forcing majority "opinion" on the rights of the minorities. Unequal taxation on a minority of individuals simply because a majority likes the idea is not principled, Constitutionally protected due process or equal representation. It would be governing by mob opinion at the expense of individual rights.

On abortion I think the public consistently supports the right to an abortion with some divergence on restrictions.

Public opinion is solidly against partial birth abortion.

Support for the Health Care Bill at the time of passage was over 50%. That Obama made many mistakes when promoting it doesn't change the fact that the public supports reform.

-spence

I wasn't talking about reform. Was that not clear when I said "so-called health care bill?" Perhaps I am informed incorrectly on the polls, but I thought there was consistent majority opposition to the bill. I apologize if I was wrong. The point was that polls though they might be useful to someone running for office, are not a way to govern.

[scottw]

consistency

September 20, 2011
Obama Hits Bottom

Pres. Barack Obama promised to have a plan to pay for his massive new stimulus bill by Monday. He broke that promise, as he has broken so many others, and remains in the “plan to have a plan” stage of his inscrutable meditations, having only made yet another unsubstantial speech, full of high sentiment and short on details.

President Obama keeps repeating the words “Pass This Bill” like a third-grader who has just mastered a new vocabulary word, but it is worth noting that, at the moment, there is only half a bill: the 155 pages of stimulus spending he calls the American Jobs Act. That second part — the part where this is all “paid for” — has not condensed from the vapor that surrounds the president.
.................................................. .......

September 20, 2011
Health-Care Chaos
States air frustrations over Obamacare’s confusing rules.

Officials from states both red and blue are frustrated and confused about Obamacare, and even those who want to implement the law are privately expressing anger at the Obama administration for providing them so little information on how to proceed.

The National Governors Association recently called a meeting of state officials to discuss implementation of the massive health-care law. On Friday, the NGA circulated a summary of the two-day meeting, “Timelines, State Options, and Federal Regulations,” which was attended by 120 officials from 40 states and territories.

The three major components of the law — insurance reform, Medicaid expansion, and health-insurance exchanges — are primarily the states’ responsibilities, but the states must work within the federal government’s rules, and the administration has been very slow to explain what those rules are. “Federal guidance has yet to be released or finalized on many issues,” the NGA report said, “confronting states with a lack of clarity.”

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I wasn't talking about reform. Was that not clear when I said "so-called health care bill?" Perhaps I am informed incorrectly on the polls, but I thought there was consistent majority opposition to the bill. I apologize if I was wrong. The point was that polls though they might be useful to someone running for office, are not a way to govern.

USA Today poll was 49% approved at time of passage...for Spence that would be "most all of America"

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

it make sense to change the capital gains tax for people making over 250K. The rate should be equal to other wages. Thats a simple fix and will generate billions.

It's already double taxation as taxes were paid on the $$ before invested.

To raise CG tax would make people think before willing to take a chance
in investing in stock which companies need for capitalization and
creating jobs.

Market wouldn't like it and it would affect the retirement and investment funds except for the the tax exempt IRA, 401K etc.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Support for the Health Care Bill at the time of passage was over 50%.

-spence

At the time of passage when no one knew what was in the 3000 pages.

What are the current polls showing?

[Karl F]

current polls how that 51-56 % want a repeal of the health care law...HOWEVER...IF you keep going, with what the people want...
(the same ones being polled with the repeal question) those answering, prefer, by a 2 to 1 margin , Universal Health Care....

ABCNEWS.com : U.S. Health Care Concerns Increase


you can google up several polls... and polls, like most everything else, can be twisted to show the desired result...

hey, face it, we is FUBAR.... and no one man, with the current state of affairs in DC, or the US, for that matter, in the current state of hard line stonewalling, is going to solve ANY important issue...

after all it's in the true owners hands, not ours....

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

.

Support for the Health Care Bill at the time of passage was over 50%. -spence

that is incorrect.

[spence]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a 51% favorable response. Many cite 49% as was noted above. All within the same margin of error.

But to have 51% or 49% for means the against will be lower as there's always a % of undecided.

Granted, Obama lost the PR battle and support now is much lower.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm pretty sure I've seen a 51% favorable response. Many cite 49% as was noted above. All within the same margin of error.

But to have 51% or 49% for means the against will be lower as there's always a % of undecided.

Granted, Obama lost the PR battle and support now is much lower.

-spence

At the time it didn't matter if 99% of America were against the damn thing . Pelosie and Obama were going to pass it. I hope people don't forget the BS that they pulled in Obama's first year. It got us where we are today.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by justplugit

It's already double taxation as taxes were paid on the $$ before invested.

To raise CG tax would make people think before willing to take a chance
in investing in stock which companies need for capitalization and
creating jobs.

Market wouldn't like it and it would affect the retirement and investment funds except for the the tax exempt IRA, 401K etc.

you're only taxed on the gains, not the initial investment so not sure its double taxation. The market would recover quickly, I dont think it would be a big hit. A lot of $$$ is funds and institutional investment which wouldnt impact the average investor
Look at the web news postings the last few days and people are seeing O's proposal for what it is. He is not tackling the problem. He is throwing it over the fence and meanwhile - taxing FAMILIES making over 250k more, AND limiting their deductions AND suggesting (via the Buffet rule) that these families (you know millionaires who make 250K) will pay a higher rate on cap gains? Do you guys realize that all these increases are ANDS, meaning multiple hits??????Where is the tax reform? When are we getting rid of the AMT, which already dings the working families HARD? This is a shameful, no-brain approach which is the same thing O has been proposing over and over. He is f'ing over the working, successful families who are fueling this economy!

for your pleasure -
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/20/news....htm?hpt=hp_t2

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

At the time it didn't matter if 99% of America were against the damn thing . Pelosie and Obama were going to pass it. I hope people don't forget the BS that they pulled in Obama's first year. It got us where we are today.

It's funny, you can dis the Health Care Bill but ignore the fact that private insurance costs are completely out of control.

I agree with the Britts over at the ECONOMIST...the HCB was a good thing, pass it so it can be fixed.

People want reform.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

you're only taxed on the gains, not the initial investment so not sure its double taxation.

RIJ, your taxed 2x when you get your paycheck, and then taxed again on the same
money that you invest by the capital gains tax.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

It's funny, you can dis the Health Care Bill but ignore the fact that private insurance costs are completely out of control.


People want reform.

-spence

This is getting old but,
Pass tort reform.
Open up interstate competition.
Get the, what is it, 600-900 billion from Medicare fraud.

[ReelinRod]

Originally Posted by justplugit

RIJ, your taxed 2x when you get your paycheck, and then taxed again on the same
money that you invest by the capital gains tax.

And if you really "hit life's lottery" you get hit again . . .

Where does Buffet's exposure to the estate tax enter into his pontifications?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

It's funny, you can dis the Health Care Bill but ignore the fact that private insurance costs are completely out of control.

Which costs are you talking about? The cost to the insurance companies to provide the insurance? The insurance premiums? The price that hospitals, doctors, various health providers charge? Don't all those providers also have to be insured? How about the costs of litigation? The costs of regulation? Little is actually said in your sentence, and much is implied. The major implication is that costs need to be controlled. That begs the question, by whom? I guess your next sentence is the answer.

I agree with the Britts over at the ECONOMIST...the HCB was a good thing, pass it so it can be fixed.

Of course--the government. Not just the government in an old fashioned American Constitutional self government expressed at local and State levels way, but the Federal Government acting in its typical current mode of top down illegal way. Pass a bad unconstitutional bill. And hooray to some socialist Britts telling Americans what is economically good. And what good form--pass a bad bill so that it can be fixed. Not fix a bill (that is not legally the Federal gvt's to legislate) so that it can be passed. Pass it then fix it. Talk about being out of control!

People want reform.

-spence

We the people are told that we want reform. By whom? Rigged polls? Reform is a convenient word. It covers a lot and can mean many things--some contradictory. If you surround it with leading other words, it can sound like exactly the thing you want. It can also lead you away from what really angers you--the thing you mentioned in your first sentence--cost. This is just a guess (I didn't take a poll), I think most people want to pay less (for everything). The illegal HCB doesn't promise to do that. Maybe it will be "fixed." But it is not a true re-forming. It is a third party pay system with more government controls. It is an escalation of the "vector" in which we've been heading.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

you're only taxed on the gains, not the initial investment so not sure its double taxation
for your pleasure -
Buffett Rule: Sounds simple but ... not so much - Sep. 20, 2011

Bingo. Some of my take on it... so guy A goes to work, makes $50,000 busting his arse in the mill or whatever and gets hit @ 25%. Multi-millionaire ceo gets $100,000 or whatever capital gains from money sitting an account and gets taxed on that at 18% (not sure what the percentages actually are). Not sure that is a reasonable policy.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Bingo. Some of my take on it... so guy A goes to work, makes $50,000 busting his arse in the mill or whatever and gets hit @ 25%. Multi-millionaire ceo gets $100,000 or whatever capital gains from money sitting an account and gets taxed on that at 18% (not sure what the percentages actually are). Not sure that is a reasonable policy.

Gulp....i actually agree.

Its even bigger than that as many super-wealthy are not collecting salaries. They are buying and selling businesses, investments, etc and making cap gains which are taxed at a lower rate. AND dont forget, you can deduct losses!
Thats why we shouldnt raise tax rates across the board. It doesnt fix the problem. Fix the tax code.