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Old 02-15-2018, 10:03 AM   #1
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No mental health issue in america.

Number 8 for school shootings in 2018, over 200 school shootings since Sandy Hook, but we don't have any issues; move along. Our kids are disconnected, desensitized with violent video games and they come home to two working parents too tired to turn off the TV and social media to listen and hear.

Put that together with easy access to weapons of mass destruction and it's no wonder we are on this pace. I won't start the AR debate, since a semi auto pistol probably could do the same damage, but this troubled teen posted he was going to be a professional school shooter and nobody questions him or his parents?

Mental health is a big issue, tied to these shootings, the opioid epidemic, but let's fund the wall first; got to take care of campaign promises.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:30 PM   #2
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Fund Mental and Physical health and infrastructure and you can reduce the number of people dying far more than spending Billions on terrorism.
But it's not as sexy
The Fatal Numbers:

The odds of being the victim of a shark attack are 1 in 11.5 million worldwide. Although there are 65 annual shark attacks each year, only a handful are fatal. Compared to this, a person is 3 times more likely to drown and 30 times more likely to be hit by lightning.
Compared to being killed by a dog, the likelihood of which is 1 in 18 million, a person is twice as likely to win the lottery and 5 times as likely to be struck by lightning.
One in 8 men and 1 in 24 women over the age of 40 will die from a sudden heart attack, while 1 in 4 men and 1 in 5 women will die from cancer.
Worldwide, 1 in about 2,050 people will die each year from unclean water, which carries numerous, life-threatening diseases. Each year, more people die from a lack of clean water than from wars.
The chances of being killed in a terrorist attack are about 1 in 20 million. A person is as likely to be killed by his or her own furniture, and more likely to die in a car accident, drown in a bathtub, or in a building fire than from a terrorist attack.
The chances a person will be killed by an asteroid are 1 in 200,000, which is much higher than the odds of being killed by hail, which is 1 in 734,400,000.
Each year, 1 out of 100,000 people die in a skydiving accident, which is 17 times lower than the risk of dying in a car accident.
11 out of every 100,000 women in the United States will die after giving birth, which is ranked ahead of 40 other countries in maternal mortality. Obesity and the prevalence of C-sections have contributed to the increase in maternal mortality rates.
The odds of dying in a severe storm are 1 in 68,388. A person is more likely to die slipping in his or her bathtub, which occurs at a rate of 1 in 11,469.
A person’s chances of dying in an elevator are 1 in 10,440,000. Due to successful elevator brake systems, an elevator has plunged only once—in the Empire State Building in 1945.
The lifetime probability of dying in a car accident is 1 in 100, which is 200 times higher than the probability of dying in a plane crash.
While 1 out of 5 people fear the possibility of being murdered, the odds that a person will be murdered in any given year are about 1 in 18,690. According to the FBI, violent crime is now at a near-historic low.
According to the CDC, the infant mortality rate is about 6 for every 1,000 live births, which is more than 10 times higher than the mortality rate of the county with the highest vehicle mortality rate—San Bernardino, California—in the country.
The chance of being killed by a bear while visiting Yellowstone National Park is 1 in 2.1 million. As a park visitor, a person is more likely to die from drowning or burns sustained from falling into a thermal pool.

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Old 02-15-2018, 12:33 PM   #3
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More often than not the parents effectively give up their roles as parents and "expect" the school system to raise their kids.

When their "little angel" gets punished for breaking any of the school rules, these same parents will blame the school but never their "angel".

When their "angel" goes on a killing spree, these same parents will claim that it was "everyone else's" fault but never their own negligence that created this satan spawn.


This latest POS was expelled from said school, and when the police came he had an exit plan...join the rest of the students and walk out.
Mental issue? sure, but more diabolical because he had planned his "get away".

Does Florida have the death penalty???

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Old 02-15-2018, 01:57 PM   #4
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The problem you have is one side doesn't want to think there's a mental Health problem, and the other side doesn't want to think there's a gun problem.

When the answer is probably in the middle....and nobody wants to look there.

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:11 PM   #5
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The problem you have is one side doesn't want to think there's a mental Health problem, and the other side doesn't want to think there's a gun problem.

When the answer is probably in the middle....and nobody wants to look there.
Bingo.
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:22 PM   #6
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The problem you have is one side doesn't want to think there's a mental Health problem, and the other side doesn't want to think there's a gun problem.

When the answer is probably in the middle....and nobody wants to look there.
This sounds catchy but doesn't make much sense. Have democrats been ignoring the mental health aspects? Didn't Trump revoke an Obama era bill to make it harder for people to get guns?

Another tragedy and another round of there's nothing we can do.
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:37 PM   #7
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This sounds catchy but doesn't make much sense. Have democrats been ignoring the mental health aspects? Didn't Trump revoke an Obama era bill to make it harder for people to get guns?

Another tragedy and another round of there's nothing we can do.
"This sounds catchy but doesn't make much sense"

Correction, it doesn't make sense to you. Nothing makes sense to you unless it attacks conservatives and exonerates liberals.

"Have democrats been ignoring the mental health aspects?"

Liberals tend to support the idea of people being allowed to enjoy freedom unless they are a clear and imminent threat. Obviously, if we err on that side, that means we are going to make some mistakes we must live with. Always a balance between liberty and security. Also, liberals (at least liberal politicians) take a ton of money from the entertainment industry, and are thus reluctant to call on them to reduce violence.

And the conservative politicians obviously pander to the NRA, and thus are generally resistant to additional gun control.

There's all kinds of things we "can" do. But we don't, because each side is too beholden to their patrons, and too rigid in their ideology..
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:49 PM   #8
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This sounds catchy but doesn't make much sense. Have democrats been ignoring the mental health aspects? Didn't Trump revoke an Obama era bill to make it harder for people to get guns?

Another tragedy and another round of there's nothing we can do.
This will make perfect sense once the Kool-Aid buzz wears off. Its a combination that may be the answer or at least a step in the right direction. The Obama Era bill was more about who was collecting SS benefits than who is actually suffering from Mental Illnesses.

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Old 02-15-2018, 04:37 PM   #9
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This will make perfect sense once the Kool-Aid buzz wears off. Its a combination that may be the answer or at least a step in the right direction. The Obama Era bill was more about who was collecting SS benefits than who is actually suffering from Mental Illnesses.
I see, so where are all these Democrats trying help the mentally ill purchase firearms?
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:09 PM   #10
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I see, so where are all these Democrats trying help the mentally ill purchase firearms?
So, Is this an example of the "serious discussions" that the gun control folks want to have?
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:24 PM   #11
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The problem you have is one side doesn't want to think there's a mental Health problem, and the other side doesn't want to think there's a gun problem.

When the answer is probably in the middle....and nobody wants to look there.
You should probably research the number of bills proposed by democrats to address mental health as it relates to guns. I have to assume that you don't know given your statement.

No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:09 PM   #12
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Number 8 for school shootings in 2018, over 200 school shootings since Sandy Hook, but we don't have any issues; move along. Our kids are disconnected, desensitized with violent video games and they come home to two working parents too tired to turn off the TV and social media to listen and hear.

Put that together with easy access to weapons of mass destruction and it's no wonder we are on this pace. I won't start the AR debate, since a semi auto pistol probably could do the same damage, but this troubled teen posted he was going to be a professional school shooter and nobody questions him or his parents?

Mental health is a big issue, tied to these shootings, the opioid epidemic, but let's fund the wall first; got to take care of campaign promises.
"Our kids are disconnected, desensitized with violent video games and they come home to two working parents too tired to turn off the TV and social media to listen and hear. "

Exactly, exactly. Our culture is sick, our moral compass is in need of repair. Parents aren't spending enough time with their kids.

" won't start the AR debate, since a semi auto pistol probably could do the same damage"

True, but these types of weapons have a sexy look, which fuels the fantasies of a small number of very sick folks.

"nobody questions him or his parents? "

This was a deeply disturbed kid who lost both of his adopted parents by the time he was 18.

This kid was so broken, that his high school determined he could not bring a backpack to school. He could not be trusted with a backpack, but he passes a background test to get an AR15? How the hell does that happen? We aren't even TRYING to protect our kids. This kid did everything but wear a sign saying "I am a mass murderer", and no one did anything.

We need a conversation about guns, about lousy parents, about the senseless violence we bombard our kids with (TV, video games, music) about endless access to the internet, and about being proactive about locking up the mentally ill, rather than waiting until after they snap.

Fortunately my senator Chris Murphy is out there on his soap box, saying that the gun caused this all by itself. Someone should ask Mr Murphy why gun crime is so low in the Dakotas, despite the fact that everyone owns guns. Instead of mocking those people by calling them bitter clingers and deplorable, maybe there is a valuable lesson to learn about they way they live and treat each other.

Good post GS.

Maybe we should also stop electing politicians based on how pretty or popular they are, and instead elect people who can solve problems.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:21 PM   #13
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Fortunately my senator Chris Murphy is out there on his soap box, saying that the gun caused this all by itself.
I take it the "Fortunately" part is sarcasm.
Sounds like a deranged individual to make a statement like that, even worse that he is a Senator.

Guns are no more responsible for school shootings than penises are responsible for rape.

We could go on all day with statistics, being angry about innocent people losing their lives and the evil that exists while blaming an inanimate object is counterproductive. Those murders are horrible, nothing can bring those people back, maybe vigilance can help prevent further shootings but impossible to prevent all.


The thing that bothers me most when this happens is the instant it happens , those with an agenda fall over themselves to be the first to spout off about further restricting law abiding people's rights that have been infringed upon over and over again with the same results, that is insane. These people we elect to government only want control and are willing to bankrupt the country to achieve it.

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

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It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:40 PM   #14
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I take it the "Fortunately" part is sarcasm.
Sounds like a deranged individual to make a statement like that, even worse that he is a Senator.

Guns are no more responsible for school shootings than penises are responsible for rape.

We could go on all day with statistics, being angry about innocent people losing their lives and the evil that exists while blaming an inanimate object is counterproductive. Those murders are horrible, nothing can bring those people back, maybe vigilance can help prevent further shootings but impossible to prevent all.


The thing that bothers me most when this happens is the instant it happens , those with an agenda fall over themselves to be the first to spout off about further restricting law abiding people's rights that have been infringed upon over and over again with the same results, that is insane. These people we elect to government only want control and are willing to bankrupt the country to achieve it.
Yes the fortunately was sarcastic.

The gun is an inanimate object. But certain guns like the AR-15, unfortunately, do fuel the fantasies of a small number of deranged folks. We can’t pretend that’s not true. I’m not saying the gun is the sole cause, but in some cases, it is a contributing factor. Some people are turned on by these guns.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:58 PM   #15
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Yes the fortunately was sarcastic.

The gun is an inanimate object. But certain guns like the AR-15, unfortunately, do fuel the fantasies of a small number of deranged folks. We can’t pretend that’s not true. I’m not saying the gun is the sole cause, but in some cases, it is a contributing factor. Some people are turned on by these guns.
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If there was no such thing as an AR-15 type, would slick looking hand guns (which are semi-automatic and can shoot at the same rate of speed as an AR15) fuel the fantasies of the deranged folks you speak of? If those folks kill because their fantasies are fueled by AR-15s, are we to assume they would not go on killing sprees if there were no AR-15s?
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:09 PM   #16
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If there was no such thing as an AR-15 type, would slick looking hand guns (which are semi-automatic and can shoot at the same rate of speed as an AR15) fuel the fantasies of the deranged folks you speak of? If those folks kill because their fantasies are fueled by AR-15s, are we to assume they would not go on killing sprees if there were no AR-15s?
I'd think that to fire at that rate and hit anything at much distance would take a lot more skill with a handgun than an AR-15. But a big issue here is simply muzzle velocity, capacity and the ability for victims to survive. The AR-15 was designed for war, not hunting or home protection. This is the opinion of so many military leaders and veteran doctors. A high velocity wound is very deadly.

Handguns certainly have their own cool factor, but it doesn't seem to be much of an influence for the worst mass shootings.

As I've said before, shooting for sport is fun, hunting (most of it) is good and home defense is a real thing. Doesn't mean we need nearly instant access to near military grade weapons.

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Old 02-15-2018, 10:15 PM   #17
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If there was no such thing as an AR-15 type, would slick looking hand guns (which are semi-automatic and can shoot at the same rate of speed as an AR15) fuel the fantasies of the deranged folks you speak of? If those folks kill because their fantasies are fueled by AR-15s, are we to assume they would not go on killing sprees if there were no AR-15s?
I don’t know what would happen if things were different. I only know that mass killings not related to terrorism, seem to be frequently carried out by these things. He didn’t pick a handgun. I wouldn’t say the gun caused this. But I’d bet every cent I have, that in some cases, it fuels the fantasy. And I’d be right. I never took a psychology class but I know I’m right. I don’t know that this truth suggests any public policy that addresses it. Im just stating something that I don’t think can be refuted. If there were no such thing as rifles, I’d bet that this guy and Adam Lanza would have done what they did.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:18 AM   #18
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Yes the fortunately was sarcastic.

The gun is an inanimate object. But certain guns like the AR-15, unfortunately, do fuel the fantasies of a small number of deranged folks. We can’t pretend that’s not true. I’m not saying the gun is the sole cause, but in some cases, it is a contributing factor. Some people are turned on by these guns.
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I'm sorry but guns do not fuel these fantasies.

We need to stop coddling our kids, teaching them that everyone wins and that everyone is good

Too many people in this country with good intentions parent with a hands off attitude. If you let the kid dress the part, they will act the part

Too many single parent households or households where both parents are working when the kids come home from school

Too many kids are taught to accept everyone, no matter what there style, what they like how the act, how they dress

Instead we should be teaching our kids things that could be a red flag. Its called street smarts. Tell a teacher or an adult if you think someone is acting threatening,or they are making you uncomfortable.

They interviewed kids after this shooting and they all said they knew he would do this

I am sure some of his friends knew he had a gun, knew he was unstable, knew it was him that made the YouTube video, but no one of them spoke out

How does the FBI who can get FISA warrants on false information not get a warrant to find out who the kid in the YouTube video was

Why didn't the school alert the authorities as to his dangerousness

Why was he let back on school grounds especially after being expelled from 3 different schools on three different occasions

It might be time in this country for public schools to go to a dress code so everyone looks the same,ban outlandish hair styles, make everyone on the same 0laying field so know one persons feelings get hurt.

Its time to have a serious conversation a out public schools and the security they use. Why are there no shootings in private or parochial schools?


I am sick of the lefts response to every shooting get serious because guns aren't going away. There are other amendments to the constitution that prohibit the taking of legally purchased goods that are later outlawed You can ban Assault Weapons but there are enough in circulation that you will never rid the country of them, nor should you want to because they aren't the problem

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Old 02-16-2018, 09:57 AM   #19
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I'm sorry but guns do not fuel these fantasies.

We need to stop coddling our kids, teaching them that everyone wins and that everyone is good

Too many people in this country with good intentions parent with a hands off attitude. If you let the kid dress the part, they will act the part

Too many single parent households or households where both parents are working when the kids come home from school

Too many kids are taught to accept everyone, no matter what there style, what they like how the act, how they dress

Instead we should be teaching our kids things that could be a red flag. Its called street smarts. Tell a teacher or an adult if you think someone is acting threatening,or they are making you uncomfortable.

They interviewed kids after this shooting and they all said they knew he would do this

I am sure some of his friends knew he had a gun, knew he was unstable, knew it was him that made the YouTube video, but no one of them spoke out

How does the FBI who can get FISA warrants on false information not get a warrant to find out who the kid in the YouTube video was

Why didn't the school alert the authorities as to his dangerousness

Why was he let back on school grounds especially after being expelled from 3 different schools on three different occasions

It might be time in this country for public schools to go to a dress code so everyone looks the same,ban outlandish hair styles, make everyone on the same 0laying field so know one persons feelings get hurt.

Its time to have a serious conversation a out public schools and the security they use. Why are there no shootings in private or parochial schools?


I am sick of the lefts response to every shooting get serious because guns aren't going away. There are other amendments to the constitution that prohibit the taking of legally purchased goods that are later outlawed You can ban Assault Weapons but there are enough in circulation that you will never rid the country of them, nor should you want to because they aren't the problem
"I'm sorry but guns do not fuel these fantasies. "

And you'd know this how?

These guns don't perform much differently from other, more boring-looking guns. But the AR-15 is extremely popular. It's partly because of the look.

"Too many single parent households or households where both parents are working when the kids come home from school"

Agreed 100%. A hundred percent. My wife hasn't worked in 7 years, it has been a disaster for our net worth (most of our vacations are camping and we drive old cars), but I wouldn't do it differently. I was at a cub scour trip to a local fire station last night, and you could se these out-of-control 8 year-olds, whose parents could not stop them from behaving terribly.

"Why didn't the school alert the authorities as to his dangerousness"

Bingo. The school would not let this kid have a backpack, yet he was able to get an AR-15. That is insane. If we couldn't spot the red flags this kid was putting up, we aren't doing anything to stop anybody.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:03 PM   #20
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Some people are turned on by these guns.
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you mean to say some people are turned on by the POWER the gun has. I doubt it is actually the gun itself.

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

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Old 02-15-2018, 02:56 PM   #21
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While Florida has a three-day waiting period for handgun purchases, anyone without a felony record, domestic abuse conviction or a handful of other stuff can walk into a gun store, wait a few minutes to clear a background check, and walk out with an AR-15-style rifle, magazines and ammunition.

Under federal law, you also must be 21 to buy a handgun from a firearms dealer. But 18-year-olds can buy semiautomatic rifles
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:01 PM   #22
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Only if you have shot one.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:09 AM   #23
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Jim, you seem to lean on the 75% statistic a lot but when is the last time a black person was involved in a mass shooting? If anything is common in these instances it is they are all white for the most part. I love guns,especially the type used in these shootings but something is wrong. And it seems to be getting worse. We have lost our respect for life when these crimes are committed without relevant targets.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:37 PM   #24
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Jim, you seem to lean on the 75% statistic a lot but when is the last time a black person was involved in a mass shooting? If anything is common in these instances it is they are all white for the most part. I love guns,especially the type used in these shootings but something is wrong. And it seems to be getting worse. We have lost our respect for life when these crimes are committed without relevant targets.
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Blacks don’t generally launch these mass killings. But I’d like to take on all gun violence, and more people are killed in garden variety gun violence than mass shootings. Street crime and mass shootings are two very different things. The rate of fatherlessness is a catastrophe for the black community.

I agree with you about lost respect. The guns play a role, but the root cause is a lack of character among our population. Lots of reasons, fatherlessness, violence on tv, the internet, secularism, liberalism.

And I agree it’s getting worse. I agree with everything you said. I don’t like it, but every word was accurate. But it’s depressing
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:57 PM   #25
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My condolences to the families that lost loved ones...I hate politics and stay as far away from it as I can...everyone need to meet and "dance in the middle of the floor" if anything is to be done.. great line guy's!... but I cant help but notice one thing..

Most of these extremely sick individuals don't walk into the police station or an army barracks ( fort hood the exception) and pull this crap.. I wonder why.

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Old 02-16-2018, 01:04 PM   #26
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Any so why aren't they used in mass shootings? Is it because they don't have the killing power afforded all those "cosmetic" options or perhaps as Jim says just don't have the sex appeal a killer is looking for?

Nadal Hasan killed, in a few minutes, 13 and wounded more than 30 with a handgun. That's a lot of killing power. Don't know if getting a hard on creates more killing power. In close quarters such as schoolrooms a handgun has plenty of killing power.

The notion that the supposed sexiness of a weapon is the motivation for mass killing is weak and superficial thinking. A killer may think a particular weapon has deadlier "optics," may think that his slaughter will look more powerful with weapon A than with weapon B, but there is no evidence nor argument that the motivation for the slaughter is the appearance of the weapon that is used.


Easy access to assault weapons is but part of the problem but it is part of the problem.
Eliminating something that is considered by some to be a contributing "part" of a larger complex problem because it is easy to access is not a solution if eliminating that something imposes on the rights of everyone else.

And if the problem exists due to specific causes that don't depend on all of the reputed "parts" of the problem, not only would it be unjust to eliminate all those peripheral parts, it would not solve the specific problem.

Since the 1960's our American society and culture has become less certain and more fragmented. There has been a huge loss of confidence in the values that predominated before the mid 20th century. That confidence had been degraded by smaller degrees before that, but the slow onslaught of academic relativism slipped into hyperdrive in the 1960's. It was modeled by Post Modern Cultural Marxism which denies any certainty and sees only power as the end and aim of existence, and which fuels the romance of class warfare and the disintegration of the founding American structure.

New heroes were made of younger identity splinter groups such as the Black Panthers, Weather Underground, Symbionese Liberation Army, etc.. Anti-war pacifists railed against American military might and exposed us as imperialists and rapists of the third world. America was painted as a racist, sexual and religious oppressive force in the world. College campuses became the high court of social justice and the battlefield against American oppression. And that has progressed since then into the right to censor any thought or speech that is counter to their intellectual rules of global order. Even to the point of justifying physical attacks on those who don't agree with them.

Notions of gender, freedom of speech or religion, rights to property, individualism in general, must all to be destroyed. Individual identity is subservient to group identity, or is irrelevant altogether. We are reduced to the struggle to gain power. That struggle is armed through force and violence. Notions of "reasonable discussions" are actually occasions to eliminate opposing ideas. Language has been inverted to Orwellian opposites. Justice is force. Government is power. Equality is mandated sameness. Freedom is granted and prescribed limitation. Reason is consensus or state edict. Life is meaningless and qualified only by social construct.

What once was considered a power and source of good, America, is now an antiquated notion of white supremacy and a retrograde imposition on the progress of world justice. It is the center of capitalist domination of the world's masses, a barrier to the equality of the world's people. And it must be made to feel guilty of its past and present transgressions. And so must Europe and all white societies. Justice cries for all the oppressed non-whites to have their equal share of "white privilege." And if the means to that end requires violence--so be it.

The present Progressive model of there being no power greater than the state, facilitated by state force and coercion, is a godless model that inspires renegades to take all power to themselves. If a renegade seeks notoriety, he must do so within the norms that will recognize his power as something to be admired. In a world that sees power as the ultimate end to existence, what greater admiration can there be than gaining power over the lives of others.

Last edited by detbuch; 02-16-2018 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:19 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
Nadal Hasan killed, in a few minutes, 13 and wounded more than 30 with a handgun. That's a lot of killing power. Don't know if getting a hard on creates more killing power. In close quarters such as schoolrooms a handgun has plenty of killing power.
A single incident doesn't make a very good case. And someone who's trained to use a weapon?

Quote:
The notion that the supposed sexiness of a weapon is the motivation for mass killing is weak and superficial thinking. A killer may think a particular weapon has deadlier "optics," may think that his slaughter will look more powerful with weapon A than with weapon B, but there is no evidence nor argument that the motivation for the slaughter is the appearance of the weapon that is used.
Nobody has said people kill simply because of looks. But to argue there isn't a cult like following around deadly weapons that has an influence is crazy.

Quote:
Eliminating something that is considered by some to be a contributing "part" of a larger complex problem because it is easy to access is not a solution if eliminating that something imposes on the rights of everyone else.

And if the problem exists due to specific causes that don't depend on all of the reputed "parts" of the problem, not only would it be unjust to eliminate all those peripheral parts, it would not solve the specific problem.
This is just a bunch of circling nonsense. It's a systems problem, you can't cherry pick single elements in an effort to discredit the entire thing.


Quote:
Since the 1960's...
Yea, let's go back to a time when women knew their place, gays stayed in the closet, the poor starved and minorities knew better than to mingle with the white folk.

Fess up. Is detbuch really Jeff Sessions?

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The present Progressive model of there being no power greater than the state, facilitated by state force and coercion, is a godless model that inspires renegades to take all power to themselves. If a renegade seeks notoriety, he must do so within the norms that will recognize his power as something to be admired. In a world that sees power as the ultimate end to existence, what greater admiration can there be than gaining power over the lives of others.
Funny, most real progressives I know, and I don't know a lot of them believe in a democracy and liberty.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:35 AM   #28
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A single incident doesn't make a very good case. And someone who's trained to use a weapon?

It makes the case that semi-automatic weapons (and virtually all guns in civilian use are semi-automatic) no matter the size or appearance, have rapid fire capability. And have what you called similar "killing power" in close quarters such as a school room.

Nobody has said people kill simply because of looks. But to argue there isn't a cult like following around deadly weapons that has an influence is crazy.

You're trying to make your "case" by throwing in an unproven supposition, and one which is not the reason for mass killings. A sort of pile on technique used to strengthen a weak argument.

This is just a bunch of circling nonsense. It's a systems problem, you can't cherry pick single elements in an effort to discredit the entire thing.

You throw in a single element (which if taken out of the "system" would not alter the result) and then accuse me of cherry picking. Actually, you are cherry growing, throwing in as many elements that might color your argument as more full, but in actuality it clutters your thesis with irrelevant odds and ends.

Yea, let's go back to a time when women knew their place, gays stayed in the closet, the poor starved and minorities knew better than to mingle with the white folk.

Fess up. Is detbuch really Jeff Sessions?

Every time and place has its good and bad, even the wonderful world of here and now. The subject is mass killings. It is the now, the today, not the pre-1960's that causes us to fear mass school shootings. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater doesn't make for a better world. Your oversimplified and slanted view of another time overlooks what was once good and what is now bad. And worse, it overlooks similarities. What fundamentally motivated people then, and what basically motivates us now. Why did people kill then, why now. What glue held society together then, what does so now. Are we a more cohesive people now than then? Has our "diversity" fragmented us or made us more united? And what is it that will unify us more as a society, or "village."? And will that unification be one of consent or coercion?

There are basic, fundamental problems involving human nature that will go a lot farther if solved than bickering about what a gun looks like. Changing or eliminating guns does not change human nature.


Funny, most real progressives I know, and I don't know a lot of them believe in a democracy and liberty.
Apparently, the whole world, today, believes in democracy. Whoopee!! But Progressives view of liberty . . . well . . . let's put it this way . . . Progressives have a new view or definition of the old language. Liberty is, like all other words, what Progressivism says it is. The historical record and current practice of Progressive ideology says that "liberty" is whatever government and its experts allows it to be.
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:58 PM   #29
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A couple of things to think about and they are just statistics
School shootings are a small portion of the shootings in the US
The US has by far the highest level of gun violence in the developed world
Most shootings are of the same race, you shoot who you know
6 americans have died per year from islamic terrorists
Over 13,000 have died per year from gun violence

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Old 02-16-2018, 04:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
A couple of things to think about and they are just statistics
School shootings are a small portion of the shootings in the US
The US has by far the highest level of gun violence in the developed world
Most shootings are of the same race, you shoot who you know
6 americans have died per year from islamic terrorists
Over 13,000 have died per year from gun violence
Easy solutions to your stats:

Be nice to those you know, and keep Islamic terrorists out of the country.
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