paying attention to debates but ignoring Trump

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I'll let you carry on this argument all by yourself.

i’m sorry if you don’t like to hear it, but race isn’t the deciding factor, family is. White kids from poor, dysfunctional, single-parent homes struggle. while black kids from stable, loving , two-parent households, do just fine.

it’s not race.
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i’m sorry if you don’t like to hear it, but race isn’t the deciding factor, family is. White kids from poor, dysfunctional, single-parent homes struggle. while black kids from stable, loving , two-parent households, do just fine.

it’s not race.
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Race isn't the only thing, but it does hit black kids harder across all socioeconomic strata than white kids.

A white kid from from a single mom family in the Projects is going to have a harder time than a black kid from a two parent stable household in suburbia.

Having grown up in two diametrically opposed places: One of 4 white kids in the Projects with a single mom and the stable family house in professional communities with the remarried dad (Army base overseas, all kids of all races that got along surprisingly well) I can compare both groups. No panacea but I lived it.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Haha, from where you sit, just about everyone is in right field.

It's not hard to be left here ..your considered left .. if you don't kiss Trumps ring 24/7....
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Race isn't the only thing, but it does hit black kids harder across all socioeconomic strata than white kids.

A white kid from from a single mom family in the Projects is going to have a harder time than a black kid from a two parent stable household in suburbia.

Having grown up in two diametrically opposed places: One of 4 white kids in the Projects with a single mom and the stable family house in professional communities with the remarried dad (Army base overseas, all kids of all races that got along surprisingly well) I can compare both groups. No panacea but I lived it.

race matters, not nearly as
much as family. not even close. yet we never stop talking about race, and never talk about the benefits of encouraging family values which develop happy children.

that white kid in a single
family home in the projects will
struggle more than a black
kid i’m a two parent family in suburbia. He will also struggle more than a black kid with two
loving parents who lives next door to him in the same project.

sure, theres white privilege and wealth privilege. But i’ve seen it all, and none of them offers nearly as
much privilege, as love/stability/support privilege. i’m wrong on a lot of things, not on that. it’s not a panacea, but it’s close.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Are you claiming that Trump has not lied or that all politicians lie.

No. That's a silly response to what I said. I didn't come close to saying or implying either. This is a sort of shadow lie. You insert the shadow of an idea that doesn't exist. It's like the great fiction/lie, the huge cloud of suspicion that media has created about Trump

no politician has lied to the extent Trump has.

That notion is part of the cloud. I don't know how many lies Washington, or Jefferson, or Lincoln, or either Roosevelt, or either Bush, or Clinton, or Obama, or any President or politician of the past or present, has told. If the few samples of what are called Trump lies that I am familiar with are representative as to what is considered a lie, then many, many of the huge number of lies attributed to him are not really lies.

Stating something that has not been verified as truth, is a sort of lie. Claiming something that is unverified as truth is not honest.

You don't actually know that no politician has lied to the extent that Trump supposedly has. If you say you do know, then you are lying.

Start with his early life and look at his great high school grades, his excellent performance at Wharton, his excellent tax returns. You can't because he hid them, he is not what he claims to be. It is the common thread in all of Trump's history. How did he get on the Forbes list? Who is John Barron? John Miller? David Dennison? Who's the liar?

I don't know much about the early life of our Presidents and politicians. Much of what is written, whether it is negative or positive about past politicians who matter enough to talk about, is disputed. Biographers, historians, journalists, are all too human in their bias and tend to paint overly rosy, or overly dark, pictures of those they write about.

Nor has it occurred to me to care about the early lives of politicians. Maybe I should care, but I don't. Maybe, unconsciously, because I not only suspect that much of what has been said to be their past is greatly fiction, but I don't see my own past history as relevant to how I handle new adventures. I have changed, several times and in fundamental ways, and every new adventure changes my perspective.

I saw the way Trump handled the Repubs in the debates, and how he handles the pressure of being strongly opposed by powerful media, business, political, and social forces. His stated goals, his handling of the economy, and his appointment of judges (which was the most important thing to me in this last presidential election) are, as you would put it, "acceptable" to me. I judge him on all that, not on what is said about him by his opponents and by the Progressive press which I have pretty much despised for a long time.

The point of Trump liking Putin not having fake news is not that american reporters have been killed, it's that Trump finds Putin's approach acceptable and worth joking about.

See, there you go, making that fictive cloud of suspicion about Trump just a bit larger by adding this tidbit that Trump finds Putin's approach acceptable. You're the one who insinuated dying jounalists as part of Putin's "approach" to not having to deal with fake news. Thus implying, if not actually stating, that Trump would find dying American journalists as being acceptable. You expand the horror, constantly, in every little to large way, of what Trump is. And it's the trick that anti-Trumpers and media do. You're simply a part of it.

You spin it into something else and find this acceptable. How dare they question the king, it's treasonous. The founders closely defined treason so that it was not the same as England, where if you spoke out against the king it was treason.
He was not elected King, he is the President of all the american people and took an oath to uphold the Constitution. He needs to start acting like it.

There you go, spinning off into another fiction. I didn't say that dead Russian journalists are acceptable. Nor did Trump. You're the one who inserted them into the discussion. But you somehow wanted to connect them to Trump (and now me?), other wise why did you bring them up?

Nor did I say that they could not question Trump. And you find another little niche to insert the notion floating around in the great manufactured cloud that Trump is a totalitarian like those lying labels describing him as fascist, Nazi, and now King. You never fail to throw in these horror zingers. And you're unequivocal about it. For you, they are all certainties. For you, this fabricated cloud of horror referred to as Trump is a solid reality.

I don't see Trump trampling the Constitution as much as past Presidents, if at all. His choice of judges beats what Hillary, or probably any Democrat would choose.

And I don't understand why you would oppose any political opinion about the Constitution since you believe that judges are not constrained by the original language of the Constitution, and that they can interpret those words, and the Constitution in general, in light of what they personally understand current conditions and realities to be. That is, judges can interpret the Constitution any way they want.

[Got Stripers]

I guess the 10,000 plus lies are just Trump being confused and his misstatements aren't really lies, but how can that be, he has professed to be the smartest president of all time he can’t possibly be confused😂😂😂😂😂😂
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I guess the 10,000 plus lies are just Trump being confused and his misstatements aren't really lies, but how can that be, he has professed to be the smartest president of all time he can’t possibly be confused😂😂😂😂😂😂
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I guess you actually researched and verified those 10, 000 and that they were actually lies. And none were repeats of the same "lie." And then you researched and found that no other politician told as many.
And I guess you just didn't merely repeat what you read or heard and accepted it as true. You are a very good man. And you wouldn't lie about it.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

There you go, spinning off into another fiction. I didn't say that dead Russian journalists are acceptable. Nor did Trump. You're the one who inserted them into the discussion. But you somehow wanted to connect them to Trump (and now me?), other wise why did you bring them up?

Nor did I say that they could not question Trump. And you find another little niche to insert the notion floating around in the great manufactured cloud that Trump is a totalitarian like those lying labels describing him as fascist, Nazi, and now King. You never fail to throw in these horror zingers. And you're unequivocal about it. For you, they are all certainties. For you, this fabricated cloud of horror referred to as Trump is a solid reality.

I don't see Trump trampling the Constitution as much as past Presidents, if at all. His choice of judges beats what Hillary, or probably any Democrat would choose.

And I don't understand why you would oppose any political opinion about the Constitution since you believe that judges are not constrained by the original language of the Constitution, and that they can interpret those words, and the Constitution in general, in light of what they personally understand current conditions and realities to be. That is, judges can interpret the Constitution any way they want.

Just keep believing Trump has a clue about foreign policy, he obviously has a vast knowledge of political theory, like western style liberalism being obsolete in west coast cities.
Meanwhile the rest of the worlds leaders shook their heads and took note of his lack of understanding.
The stable genius is going to leave the poker table naked and you’ll be extolling the beauty of his wardrobe.
For the last 30+ years NK has said they will consider denuclearization and never have. Now maybe having Trump in love with him will make him agree to total denuclearization, Trump has already given him far more than any prior President and gotten zip for it. Maybe Kim is his type. Today’s Rodong Sinmun headlines extol the ability of their leader and his meeting with the President of the USA.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

pete, every post i’ve seen from you here, can be summarized thusly...

Orange Man Bad.

we get it.
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I prefer to call him Generalissimo Donnie Bonespurs the Fabulist and yes, he’s bad for America.
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[Sea Dangles]

Clearly the greatest president of our lifetime
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Just keep believing Trump has a clue about foreign policy, he obviously has a vast knowledge of political theory, like western style liberalism being obsolete in west coast cities.
Meanwhile the rest of the worlds leaders shook their heads and took note of his lack of understanding.
The stable genius is going to leave the poker table naked and you’ll be extolling the beauty of his wardrobe.
For the last 30+ years NK has said they will consider denuclearization and never have. Now maybe having Trump in love with him will make him agree to total denuclearization, Trump has already given him far more than any prior President and gotten zip for it. Maybe Kim is his type. Today’s Rodong Sinmun headlines extol the ability of their leader and his meeting with the President of the USA.
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Again, you keep fighting little battles with me that don't exist. I have not said that he knows a great deal about foreign policy or political theory.

And then you go off into reveries of poker tables, nakedness, beautiful wardrobes (ooooooohhh, the emperor has no clothes, is this another sneaky metaphor to fortify the manufactured image of Trump as king, Nazi, fascist, dictator, destroyer of constitutions?), and of sexual innuendo--attraction to Kim (like the so-called Putin bromance and the fake characterization of Trump being aligned with, in love with, favorable to, our enemy dictators).

Perhaps I give you too much credit for constantly lying about Trump. Telling the massive, well-woven lies that you seem to do takes a certain amount of mental acuity.

But, it seems more that instead of telling potent lies, you are fighting with crazy mirages. Rather than a crafty liar, you remind me more of a Don Quixote--tilting at windmills. As in this passage from the novel:

Just then they came in sight of thirty or forty windmills that rise from that plain. And no sooner did Don Quixote see them that he said to his squire, "Fortune is guiding our affairs better than we ourselves could have wished. Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them. With their spoils we shall begin to be rich for this is a righteous war and the removal of so foul a brood from off the face of the earth is a service God will bless."

"What giants?" asked Sancho Panza.

"Those you see over there," replied his master, "with their long arms. Some of them have arms well nigh two leagues in length."

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills. Those things that seem to be their arms are sails which, when they are whirled around by the wind, turn the millstone."

[Got Stripers]

Boy you are sure full of yourself, or wait I know what your full of😬
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Boy you are sure full of yourself, or wait I know what your full of😬
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That you profess to "know" anything personal about me, which you don't, reveals what you consider "knowing" to be--as in your knowing that Trump has told 10,000 lies and no other politician has told as much.

[Pete F.]

At least the honest media is calling them lies now.
And then you have Fox
https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/sta...910327814?s=21
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

At least the honest media is calling them lies now.
And then you have Fox
https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/sta...910327814?s=21
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All 10,000? And do they say that no other politician has told 10,000 lies? This is another little lie by you. The lie of sliding from the parameter of 10,000 and no other politician into the less definitive parameter of "them lies," whatever that is--any shifty slant that gives the impression of truth to that which is not, nor can be, verified.

The Daily Show is "honest media"?

[scottw]

they are just yelling at the padded walls as this point

[Sea Dangles]

These will go down in history as 8 happy, hysterical years!
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

All 10,000? And do they say that no other politician has told 10,000 lies? This is another little lie by you. The lie of sliding from the parameter of 10,000 and no other politician into the less definitive parameter of "them lies," whatever that is--any shifty slant that gives the impression of truth to that which is not, nor can be, verified.

The Daily Show is "honest media"?

Many people say Donald Trump has lied more than 10,000 times. I mean a lot of people have told me that.
Here is a small sampling:
"The Obama administration was begging for a meeting" with Kim Jong Un.
California "admitted" there were "a million" illegal votes in the 2016 presidential election.
"There has never been, ever before, an administration that’s been so open and transparent."
The Russia investigation "was a coup. This was an attempted overthrow of the United States government."
"In the ‘old days’ if you were president and you had a good economy, you were basically immune from criticism."
"The noise (from windmills) causes cancer."
Says his father, Fred Trump, was "born in a very wonderful place in Germany."
When Congress sought documents from President Barack Obama, the White House "didn’t do anything. They didn’t give one letter of the request. Many requests were made. They didn’t give a letter."
Says former Sen. Harry Reid "got thrown out."
"The reason Russia was in Afghanistan was because terrorists were going into Russia."
Says troops recently received "one of the biggest pay raises" ever, and that it was the first pay increase in "more than 10 years."
Says 19,000 text messages exchanged between former FBI officials that were "purposely and illegally deleted ... would have explained (the special counsel investigation) hoax."
"If you buy, you know, a box of cereal, if you do anything, you have a voter ID. … The only thing you don’t is if you’re a voter of the United States."
"Democrats let him (cop killer Luis Bracamontes) into our country," and "Democrats let him stay."
Says a recent opioid bill that reached his desk had "very little Democrat support."
Saudi Arabia has ordered $450 billion, "$110 billion of which is a military order," producing "over a million jobs."
Says Democrats "want to give (undocumented immigrants) cars."
"Some of the Democrats have been talking about ending (coverage for) pre-existing conditions."
Sen. Kamala Harris is "supporting the animals of MS-13."
Says Wisconsin "hadn’t been won by a Republican since Dwight D. Eisenhower, in 1952. And I won Wisconsin. … Ronald Reagan, remember, Wisconsin was the state that Ronald Reagan did not win."

Mexico will pay for the wall
China pays tariffs
There has never been a president who passed more legislation
I came up with the expression Priming the Pump
Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest — and you all know it!,
I know words, I have the best words, Look, if I were a liberal Democrat, people would say I’m the super genius of all time. The super genius of all time,
We have a lot of smart people. I tell you what. One thing we’ve learned. We have, by far, the highest IQ of any cabinet ever,
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,
I would use the greatest minds. I know the best negotiators. I’m in New York — I know the good ones, the bad ones. I always say: ‘I know the ones people think are good.’ I know people you’ve never heard of that are better than all of them.”
“I’m the most militaristic person.
“Nobody in the history of this country has known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump.”
With the exception of the late, great Abraham Lincoln, I can be more presidential than any president that’s ever held this office.
Throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart. Not smart, but genius.
“Just — and so — so I was successful, successful, successful. I was always the best athlete, people don’t know that. But I was successful at everything I ever did…”
I love the First Amendment. Nobody loves it better than me. Nobody. I mean, who uses it more than I do?
“I just realized the other day, they told me… when we won the state of Wisconsin, it hadn’t been won by a Republican since Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1952. Did you know that?”
“Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.” Trump went on to assert that winning an election everyone was certain he’d lose proved: “I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius….and a very stable genius at that!”


The Daily Show is more honest than The Trump Tweets

[Got Stripers]

With Donald at the helm and Ivanka and Jared handling foreign policy how can we loose🤮
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

With Donald at the helm and Ivanka and Jared handling foreign policy how can we loose🤮
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so why aren’t we losing, h
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

With Donald at the helm and Ivanka and Jared handling foreign policy how can we loose🤮
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so why aren’t we losing, then? Sure not everything is perfect, far from it. but you claimed several times that our standing in the world has diminished, i kept asking for proof, and i kept failing to see any.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

so why aren’t we losing, then? Sure not everything is perfect, far from it. but you claimed several times that our standing in the world has diminished, i kept asking for proof, and i kept failing to see any.
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they aren't having a conversation they are just yelling at the sky...it's pretty funny and a little sad

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

they aren't having a conversation they are just yelling at the sky...it's pretty funny and a little sad

that is literally what they’re doing. I remember hating everything about bill clinton, he made
my skin crawl. but gradually, i had to admit that as repulsive as i found him personally, that he was making things better.

These people cannot begin to do that. When the congressional black caucus all sits down during the state of the union, while the republicans celebrate low black unemployment, you know that you’ve officially entered the twilight zone.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

they aren't having a conversation they are just yelling at the sky...it's pretty funny and a little sad

Not as funny as all those pictures you use to put up about Obama.

You still have those?

[Got Stripers]

Go read some of Pew Research Center’s world wide surveys on how 25+ countries view us and report back on how well we are doing. I don’t need to prove anything it’s all pretty evident.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Go read some of Pew Research Center’s world wide surveys on how 25+ countries view us and report back on how well we are doing. I don’t need to prove anything it’s all pretty evident.
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No, it's not evident. I have no doubt that most people like Trump less than they liked Obama. But what harm does that cause? Have we been invaded? Did we get excluded from the Olympics? Have we been kicked out of the UN? Does no one want to buy our bonds? Does no one want to buy our goods? Do former allies refuse to return our phone calls now? Are we getting any less help from anyone, to do the things we have to do?

How are you or I worse off on the global stage?

More NATO countries are kicking in a lot more money for defense, reducing our bill.

Mexico is finally sending troops to its southern border.

If he cements a trade deal with China, you'll really have no leg to stand on.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Many people say Donald Trump has lied more than 10,000 times. I mean a lot of people have told me that.

"A lot of people" is not verification. A "lot of people" are wrong about a lot of things. A "lot of people" don't know what they are talking about. "A lot of people" is the type of thing that Trump might say as proof of one of his supposed lies.

I read your list of, 36 I think, Trump "lies." As I suspected, most, probably all, were not actually or necessarily lies. Many may simply be wrong, error, ignorance. Several are probably hyperbole, exaggeration, conjecture. A couple may not actually be provable one way or the other. Some are dependent on what he meant by loosely delivered language such as in his "China pays tariffs." Some may actually be true as in his averring that Reagan didn't win Wisconsin--he said, in a fuller quote that he had "recently learned" that Reagan didn't win Wisconsin in his second term. He may have truly "learned" something that wasn't true.

I suspect that if Trump were to take a lie detector test on each "lie," he would probably pass the test as being truthful on all counts.


The Daily Show is more honest than The Trump Tweets

I wouldn't say "more honest." Perhaps it is just as wrong but is also equal in believing it is right.

I would say that you are not that different from Trump in these regards. You certainly are as sarcastic as he is, I would say even more so. From the tenor of your posts, it seems to me that you are more rude and offensive than he is. And you certainly are prone to the same kind of "lying" that you accuse Trump of--as I have been pointing out.

Maybe that gives you some kind of authority to point fingers and accuse.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Not as funny as all those pictures you use to put up about Obama.

You still have those?

"a picture is worth a thousand words"...it would be great if Pete would start using pictures

[Pete F.]

“I suspect that if Trump were to take a lie detector test on each "lie," he would probably pass the test as being truthful on all counts.”
I believe it was Barbra Rez that said something very similar to that.
Pretty scary to have a pathological liar as President.
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[Got Stripers]

They aren't lies, Detbuch hit it on the head, it's due to total ignorance, he's just to damn dumb to know better.