WTF

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

If it prevents you from getting sick, why are you worried that an unvaccinated person will infect you. You’re vaccinated, no worries
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I'm not sure if you realize that I can still get the virus
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[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I'm not sure if you realize that I can still get the virus
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And pass it to others.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I'm not sure if you realize that I can still get the virus
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Well aware, but you said you don’t get sick, so what’s the problem.

This virus isn’t going away for a long time. If the vaccine doesn’t stop anybody from getting it, then even if everybody is vaccinated, it is still going to propagate through society.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Well aware, but you said you don’t get sick, so what’s the problem.

This virus isn’t going away for a long time. If the vaccine doesn’t stop anybody from getting it, then even if everybody is vaccinated, it is still going to propagate through society.
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Not necessarily. The more virus in the population increases the chances for more deadly mutations.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Not necessarily. The more virus in the population increases the chances for more deadly mutations.

Didn’t we just establish that the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting the virus? So it shouldn’t be shrinking that footprint.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Didn’t we just establish that the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting the virus? So it shouldn’t be shrinking that footprint.
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The vaccine has shown to reduce the amount of virus in the population even if it's not 100%.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Well aware, but you said you don’t get sick, so what’s the problem.

This virus isn’t going away for a long time. If the vaccine doesn’t stop anybody from getting it, then even if everybody is vaccinated, it is still going to propagate through society.
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I don't think I ever said that I or someone else won't get sick. If you are vaccinated and get sick you're less likely to get seriously feel from it. We're lucky with the Delta variant that if you're vaccinated you're less likely to be seriously ill. We don't know what will happen with the next variant.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I don't think I ever said that I or someone else won't get sick. If you are vaccinated and get sick you're less likely to get seriously feel from it. We're lucky with the Delta variant that if you're vaccinated you're less likely to be seriously ill. We don't know what will happen with the next variant.
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I read that there will be a variant soon that will be resistant to the vaccine...who will you get mad at then?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

The vaccine has shown to reduce the amount of virus in the population even if it's not 100%.

the most vaccinated place on earth...

[Got Stripers]

FL and it’s governor are calling you, it’s where you can be free from government overreach and die under your own terms.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

the most vaccinated place on earth...

Meanwhile in Israel, healthcare providers are continuing their rapid rollout of vaccine booster shots, after the third doses were approved for the entire population over 12. As of Sunday evening, 2,102,426 Israelis — close to 23% of the population — had received a third shot.
Guess they’re doing it for fun
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

FL and it’s governor are calling you, it’s where you can be free from government overreach and die under your own terms.

planning to head down in November 99.7926% of Florida residents have not died from covid if my math is correct....I'm healthy, vaccinated and I wear a N95 mask in places where it seems appropriate, I just believe that people are responsible to make their own decisions regarding some of these things and that there is a lot of overreach... which makes me an "anti-vaxxer" by the latest revision of definitions to suit some people....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Meanwhile in Israel, healthcare providers are continuing their rapid rollout of vaccine booster shots, after the third doses were approved for the entire population over 12. As of Sunday evening, 2,102,426 Israelis — close to 23% of the population — had received a third shot.
Guess they’re doing it for fun
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

most vaccinated state in the country...be safe up there

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Meanwhile in Israel, healthcare providers are continuing their rapid rollout of vaccine booster shots, after the third doses were approved for the entire population over 12. As of Sunday evening, 2,102,426 Israelis — close to 23% of the population — had received a third shot.
Guess they’re doing it for fun
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And it is a fact that the unvaccinated with natural immunity there are 13 times less likely to get the variant than the vaccinated.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

And it is a fact that the unvaccinated with natural immunity there are 13 times less likely to get the variant than the vaccinated.
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That assumes you survived getting the virus in the first place and hopefully didn’t infect or kill others in the process. The issue is the more this virus has a chance to evolve into the next more deadly variant, the more people die and it is the large unvaccinated population in the world and the US which is allowing it to happen. This latest variant has proven to be an issue for the young who may not have had issues with the initial virus, which again highlights the need to get more vaccinated.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

And it is a fact that the unvaccinated with natural immunity there are 13 times less likely to get the variant than the vaccinated.
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The group of unvaccinated persons are truly survivors of their first infection, this means that many of the weak and problematic health cases have died during their first infection and are no longer present in that group. If Covid has a mortality of 1.5%, then this subgroup is 240 cases for the 16000 large group. However: all those cases of weak and problematic health who likely die from an unprotected infection are still present in the group of SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees. So a selection was done where the most vulnerable persons were taken out of the unvaccinated group (death), but that selection is not done in the vaccinated group simply because it is not possible to predict at forehand who will die from an unprotected Covid infection. Although the groups are finally selected on equal risk factors, the above observation will always introduce a huge statistical bias.

I am quite sure that the group of cases found in the 'vaccine' group are largely those persons who would have died from an unprotected Covid infection. Because those persons are by definition not present in the unvaccinated group (they died during the first infection) you can explain the number of cases in both groups precisely by the above described mechanism. The conclusion then is that the found cases have nothing to do with 'better resistance due to an earlier infection'.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

the most vaccinated place on earth...

I think they wrote this for you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...psons-paradox/

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

That assumes you survived getting the virus

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odds are pretty good...according to Johns Hopkins University’s mortality data as of Aug 6... 98.3% of people in the US who have gotten covid survived, we know that there were a lot of "covid deaths" from car accidents and stuff and that there are probably lots of unreported covid cases that would bring that number even higher...you sound as though 98.3% have died after getting it...very odd

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

I think they wrote this for you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...psons-paradox/

are you suggesting I don't think the vaccines work? I'm not paying wapo to read their article...I got vaccinated.... and not because I think they don't work...

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

odds are pretty good...according to Johns Hopkins University’s mortality data as of Aug 6... 98.3% of people in the US who have gotten covid survived, we know that there were a lot of "covid deaths" from car accidents and stuff and that there are probably lots of unreported covid cases that would bring that number even higher...you sound as though 98.3% have died after getting it...very odd

Boy how you can twist a post into something I didn’t say, doesn’t survive mean the group Bruce refers to lived, dahhh. Getting it and surviving doesn’t make you immune to the next variation and studies now show long term effects from getting covid are common, personally I’d rather be vaccinated once, twice and a third time rather than rolling the dice, which is exactly what you do if you don’t get vaccinated.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

are you suggesting I don't think the vaccines work? I'm not paying wapo to read their article...I got vaccinated.... and not because I think they don't work...

Keep up please.

[Got Stripers]

Boy the don’t mess with my freedoms crowd are not going to like the latest mandates, although it should help the majority of our workforce. Doing so should help the economy if the majority of the US workers get vaccinated. I get the argument, but we have lost numbers that basically make this a world war, why not join forces to beat the enemy and prevent that next variant that could be far worse?

[JohnR]

TL : DR

The problems with vaccines are that racist white people on the right side of the aisle won't do their part.

It is not black people, hispanic people, asian people, or native American people that have low vaccination rates (they do - fortunately it is improving).

It is not Illinois, Colorado, Oregon, Virginia, each roughly on par with Florida, with vaccination rates - it is Florida that is the problem.

It is the Freedom loving white people that are the problem.

This has been insanely over f cking politicized.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

And it is a fact that the unvaccinated with natural immunity there are 13 times less likely to get the variant than the vaccinated.
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I don't think this is true, Bruce.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I don't think this is true, Bruce.

It is from a study
The total context may be incomplete but that is the results that were publicized.


A new study from Israel looked at thousands of people who had either been vaccinated against COVID-19 or were unvaccinated but previously infected
Participants who were double jabbed were 5.96 times more likely to be infected and 7.13 times more likely to experience symptoms
After three months, risk of infection was 13.06 times higher among immunized individuals and they were 27 times more likely to experience symptoms
Researchers say the study has many limitations including the Indian 'Delta' variant being dominant and participants not being required to be tested
The study does not discourage vaccination because unvaccinated people are still more likely to be infected with Covid or hospitalized than vaccinated people
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

It is from a study
The total context may be incomplete but that is the results that were publicized.


A new study from Israel looked at thousands of people who had either been vaccinated against COVID-19 or were unvaccinated but previously infected
Participants who were double jabbed were 5.96 times more likely to be infected and 7.13 times more likely to experience symptoms
After three months, risk of infection was 13.06 times higher among immunized individuals and they were 27 times more likely to experience symptoms
Researchers say the study has many limitations including the Indian 'Delta' variant being dominant and participants not being required to be tested
The study does not discourage vaccination because unvaccinated people are still more likely to be infected with Covid or hospitalized than vaccinated people
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Have you been sniffing the Tightbond again ?? “A study”. What study? To think that these vaccines don’t work is ridiculous.
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[JohnR]

I read an interesting dive into the various studies. Several hypotheses can be drawn:


Previous Covid infection is one of the best defenses against getting C19 again, or the Delta.


Getting vaccinated on top of a previous infection is even more safe.

Pfizer seems to have most lost of effectiveness


https://maximumtruth.substack.com/p/...source=twitter

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I read an interesting dive into the various studies. Several hypotheses can be drawn:


Previous Covid infection is one of the best defenses against getting C19 again, or the Delta.


Getting vaccinated on top of a previous infection is even more safe.

Pfizer seems to have most lost of effectiveness


https://maximumtruth.substack.com/p/...source=twitter

We will all no doubt know more going forward, but I’d agree with the conclusion at the end, getting the vaccine regardless of your vaccine status is good for society and probably especially valuable to anyone living a more risky public life.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I read an interesting dive into the various studies. Several hypotheses can be drawn:


Previous Covid infection is one of the best defenses against getting C19 again, or the Delta.


Getting vaccinated on top of a previous infection is even more safe.

Pfizer seems to have most lost of effectiveness


https://maximumtruth.substack.com/p/...source=twitter

What I don’t see in the comparison of the difference in effectiveness between having previously had COVID and the vaccine is the fact that if you had Covid previously you survived.
Taking the most vulnerable out of the data would skew the results.
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[scottw]

just curious..."IF" they discover a way to inject something with the vaccine into you or implant something under your skin that will let the government know that you have Covid or whatever so that they can make sure that you are not a threat to others...would you jump right in line? Would you support mandates for this science?...it would be "good for society and probably especially valuable to anyone living a more risky public life"..think about the possibilities


https://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-unve...231239955.html