Lack of capable "tradesmen"

[redlite]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

Wow Mike.....I understand your angst. As you know I work for a large contractor in the area.....you might even be talking about one of our houses.
I do the finish work and have no say or control over the subs we hire. If I did we might not get a lot of houses done because most of them suck. I stick to my job..which I do to the best of my ability.
Unfortunately not a lot of young men are interested in working in the trades. It's hard work for sure and the candy ass kids today are too soft to tough it out and learn to do things the right way.
I have a lot more to say on the subject....later

I hear ya on plenty more Bob. I constantly think about that framing pic u posted a bit back of the rock in-between the top plates.

I mean Im sure that others might question why/ how we do some things compared to their own approach. But there would never be an issue in the long run and if there was we stand behind our work and admit when something wrong on our end to correct. These other guys just leave it and some of them I have suggested the home owner go after the other people and they get no response. All these jobs were done in the past 18 months or less and now the home owners are paying for the same thing twice. They seem to operate by the motto that "caulk and paint makes it what it ain't."

The gutters on the big houses were built by the company you work for about 15 yrs ago. I blame that on the subs that did the gutter installs, but again when we pulled up and stood in the driveway and looked up it was obvious clear as day the cause of the problem, so ultimately whoever was in charge should have noticed.
You must have done the stairs in all of em cause they were perfect and issue free and I could tell the level of dedication and attention to detail the went into em. Still No squeaks.

Now I gotta put my auto mechanic hat back on and get back out in the garage since I took the day off to continue repairs on our fleet of cars that are driving me absolutely insanely frustrarting as F.....Cars suck.

[Rmarsh]

[QUOTE=redlite;

Now I gotta put my auto mechanic hat back on and get back out in the garage since I took the day off to continue repairs on our fleet of cars that are driving me absolutely insanely frustrarting as F.....Cars suck.[/QUOTE]


Ill admit ...I used to be able to work on cars or trucks back when they were a lot simpler....wont touch my wifes lexus .helped a guy change an engine out of a donor car in a parking lot once though.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

Ill admit ...wont touch my wifes lexus

I tried to replace a headlight bulb on my RX350. Turns out you have to drop the front bumper and remove the entire assembly. Even at Firestone it cost over a grand for two headlight bulbs

Been disappointed with most carpenters I’ve ever hired. The guys who built a deck at my last house cut stair treads to different depths and I had to calculate the baluster spacing for them. One guy grouted a toilet in and the dudes who did the epoxy floor in the basement mixed it too stiff so the paint chips didn’t settle. They had to wet sand the entire floor then they mixed a top coat too thin and it didn’t set. Had to remove it with acetone. Third time finally got it right. At least they didn’t bail on me.

[Guppy]

I had a lot of guys that didn’t make it past lunch time…

The one I always liked… “ I’ve been doing it like this for 10 years “ me… you’ve been doing it wrong for ten years… good bye.. :-)

Oh! One more thing,,, sometimes good customers are hard to find… I’ve had some doozies…. LOL

[Slipknot]

I saw it a lot when I was working out in the field a lot in the 80's and 90's installing but been mostly in my shop custom work last couple of decades. I know during the 80's building boom when work was plentiful, hackers came out of the woodwork to make a buck not knowing what they were doing. Same thing happens again when times are good.
But with today's young people feeling entitled and not willing to "EARN" it like we all did, I don't know how the stuff will get done. It literally is a competition among customers to find and hire competent tradesmen.
I am going thru a bit of it myself building an inlaw space at my home for my wife's mother. Been doing ok so far hiring the right people for the most part. Doing as much as I can myself of course but it is costing a small fortune for a 20x36 addition. Waiting on rough electrical now before we can insulate. Once this is done, I then will remodel my kitchen before I totally destroy my body.

I think the level of care is just not there with many people when things are busy especially. Maybe greed has something to do with it.
I find myself taking more time to do jobs these days because I am even more fussy than I need to be or ever was, but it has to be right no matter what it costs me as the priority is quality first. Materials have been a problem last few years, corners get cut and stuff gets shipped so I find myself having to fix crap I buy if it's not worth the hassle of getting replacement. pretty sad.

[Rmarsh]

Any trade, and especially carpentry, requires training.
You cant just buy a compound saw, strap on a tool belt. watch a few youtube videos and "voila" you're a carpenter.
It takes a few years of learning the basics as an "apprentice"....now there's a word you hardly ever hear...nobody ever calls themselves an apprentice anymore....they're a carpenter ...which is ridiculous. I'm not talking about shop class or vocational school. I mean on the job doing real work, under the close supervision of a "master carpenter".
If you start out your career working for a hacker you're not likely to become any more than that. You also need to accept criticism....sometimes harsh criticism....with a little cursing....to emphasize..... when you're not doing things correctly.....or taking too long to do a task.
I got yelled at daily by the best carpenter I've known to this day....but I was determined to tough it out and took it like a man.....and not quit over hurt feelings.....learned a hell of a lot from that guy while everyone else quit.
If you get your "feelings" hurt and take it personal and quit the first time you get yelled at, you'll never make it through said "apprenticeship".
In addition to that I've seen so many guys who fail at it due to the lack of basic math skills and reading comprehension. On top of that it is a physically demanding profession and will wear you out and takes its toll on your body.
My sister asked if i had work for her husband who was laid off from Shaws. I said sure he can help me with a roofing job I am doing.
I gave him the easy job. Later that evening my sister called and asked "what did you do to Peter".... "Why" I asked.
"Well" she said "he was so tired that he ate dinner and went right to bed saying he was worn out and hurting".

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

Any trade, and especially carpentry, requires training.
You cant just buy a compound saw, strap on a tool belt. watch a few youtube videos and "voila" you're a carpenter.
It takes a few years of learning the basics as an "apprentice"....now there's a word you hardly ever hear...nobody ever calls themselves an apprentice anymore....they're a carpenter ...which is ridiculous. I'm not talking about shop class or vocational school. I mean on the job doing real work, under the close supervision of a "master carpenter".
If you start out your career working for a hacker you're not likely to become any more than that. You also need to accept criticism....sometimes harsh criticism....with a little cursing....to emphasize..... when you're not doing things correctly.....or taking too long to do a task.
I got yelled at daily by the best carpenter I've known to this day....but I was determined to tough it out and took it like a man.....and not quit over hurt feelings.....learned a hell of a lot from that guy while everyone else quit.
If you get your "feelings" hurt and take it personal and quit the first time you get yelled at, you'll never make it through said "apprenticeship".
In addition to that I've seen so many guys who fail at it due to the lack of basic math skills and reading comprehension. On top of that it is a physically demanding profession and will wear you out and takes its toll on your body.
My sister asked if i had work for her husband who was laid off from Shaws. I said sure he can help me with a roofing job I am doing.
I gave him the easy job. Later that evening my sister called and asked "what did you do to Peter".... "Why" I asked.
"Well" she said "he was so tired that he ate dinner and went right to bed saying he was worn out and hurting".

A lot of good comments here, but this one really hits on the way things used to be done... When I first went out on my own I was able to team up with a gruff, ex-biker, Viet Nam vet who a lot of people did not care for in the trades and especially those who had worked under him at the construction firm I had been working for. He had the skills and experience. I had the education, contacts, and patience. I ran the business, but he ran the show. I learned SO MUCH from him. I was the paymaster every Friday, but I was his whipping boy for the rest of the week. I had hired the best teacher, even if he lacked some social skills. We lasted just over ten years. Not all relationships are meant to be forever, business or social. But we always overbuilt, had a clean/neat jobsite at the end of the day, every day, and did not ever say "that's good enough". I carry those with me today, on every job. I definitely don't have the largest bank account, or the highest profit margins. But I carry the pride in my work, that has MY NAME on it. I would love to have skilled, caring, neat tradespeople working with me every day, just like they show on This Old House. I just don't know where to find them... And the toll on the body is real.

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by Guppy

I had a lot of guys that didn’t make it past lunch time…

The one I always liked… “ I’ve been doing it like this for 10 years “ me… you’ve been doing it wrong for ten years… good bye.. :-)

Oh! One more thing,,, sometimes good customers are hard to find… I’ve had some doozies…. LOL

Good customers? Few and far between.....I love doing the work but dealing with cheapskates gets tiresome.

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by spence

I tried to replace a headlight bulb on my RX350. Turns out you have to drop the front bumper and remove the entire assembly. Even at Firestone it cost over a grand for two headlight bulbs

Spence....its crazy...her directional light was stuck on....even after the car was parked and shut off. Couldnt fit my hand in there to check the bulb. Disconnected the battery so it wouldnt go dead. When i reconnected it light was off and working properly....its happened a few times. Wow...a grand for two headlighy bulbs....that's scary.