Pay and Pension in the White House

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But you deny that has any connection to liberalism or conservatism.

liberalism or conservatism. isn't left behind when you move to another state .. thats in your imagination

What about the states that are experiencing an exodus? Here is that list in order:

New Jersey
New York
Illinois
Connecticut
Ohio
Kansas
Massachusetts
West Virginia
Mississippi
Maryland

these states are all “true blue.” people are leaving these states on the quest for economic prosperity.

not to find political nirvana

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You say people want to move to places that have a low cost of living and cheaper housing and better economic prospects. But you deny that has any connection to liberalism or conservatism.

Unless an individual wants to live near Manhattan or Boston so badly that they are willing to pay through the nose, then New England is a ripoff. Except for New Hampshire. But you see no political connection.

Enjoy your denial-fest.

Has less to do with politics and more just about macro trends.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

liberalism has zero to do why people are moving south and west ..

its about low housing costs and jobs namely Auto (non union) and gas and oil and baby boomers retirements moving south
why stay in MA making 15 bucks an hour when you can go to Tennessee make around the same and be able to afford your own place

Pretty much what Jim has said. Are you saying that the taxes required for "liberal" programs are not at all part of the reason for a high cost of living?

Jobs in the NE have no longer manufacture based those commpanys screwed their employees in the 70s and 80's 90s and 2000s

Why on earth would manufacturers not want to be based in the NE? Oh . . . right . . . they want to screw their employees. So that's why people want to move where taxes are lower because they can find jobs there . . . and be employees who will be screwed by companies. Genius.

Polaroid Corporation filed for federal bankruptcy protection on October 11, 2001

left executives of the company with large bonuses, while stockholders, as well as current and retired employees, were left with nothing.

Polaroid was loved by its employees before the bankruptcy because it was one of the more employee friendly companies. It was avoiding a hostile takeover by a Disney co. at the time by buying back its stocks and transferring ownership of them to its employees (which it was considering before the takeover attempt). Polaroid simply could not, or did not know how to, stay relevant with the emergence of digital cameras. It borrowed a lot of money to buy back stocks and create the new partnership with its employees and was getting increasingly in debt because of losing sales and greater costs. Not sure what you would expect from it at this point. Good intentions went bad. Everyone who owned stock in the company, including corporate managers, lost their stock investment. The pensioned retirees had their pensions taken over by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.

lets not for get enron or the Subprime mortgage crisis but now we have a de regulation POTUS who will remove the regulation from the same industries . who created the need to impose the regulation in the 1st place???

The Enron thing was not legit. It was a total sham, not an example of supposedly how evil our corporations are. The subprime mortgage crisis was a prime example of how government regulation can go bad. Banks backing shaky mortgages was a new policy which was made possible by a government regulation. Banks were far more scrupulous about making loans for mortgages before the invention of the Community Reinvestment Act. Getting rid of bad regulations, especially unconstitutional ones, is a good thing.

Americans today are aware that corporate pensions have been virtually eliminated and that the few remaining private, as well as the nation’s public pensions, are in jeopardy. Even if you are among the lucky few that have a pension, you cannot rest assured that it will be there for all the years you’ll need it. Whether you know it or not, someone is busy trying to figure how to screw you out of your pension.

The pension idea depends on a lot of things in order to be sustainable. It has to be adequately funded. Economic conditions have to remain stable. Payees have to remain viable which requires avoiding a permanent and rising debt. And requires a maintenance of the monetary employee/employer relationship.

Poor management will lead to unsustainability. Competition can disrupt adequate profitability.

Government policies greatly affect overall economic conditions. So pensions and savings and cost of living and doing business are all strongly influenced by taxation and regulation. Government overspending requiring excessive taxing and borrowing lead to reduced incomes and profit and to inflation which also lowers the value of savings and pensions. So excessive taxation used to fund government programs and pay debt, and ever changing and onerous regulations, all affect the viability of companies, including their ability to fund pensions. And it all affects the value of those pensions which decreases as government debt inflates prices. Government mandated bargaining can create an imbalance in company profits which lead to rising costs or loss of profits and so to underfunding pensions.

The ability to provide sustainable pensions for all the retirees in the private sector, who are living longer and longer, under the changing and more onerous government policies, simply became impossible. Large Corporations like the auto companies had as much or more retirees on the payroll than the number of actual working, productive, employees.

The public sector has the same problems. But since it bargains with itself, there is less incentive to stay within budgets. Public sector debt and its underfunded pensions is a huge problem which cannot be blamed on evil corporations.

Americans also know the great 401k experiment of the past 30 years has been a disaster. It is now apparent that 401ks will not provide the retirement security promised to workers.

The signs of the coming retirement crisis are all around you. Who’s bagging your groceries: a young high school kid or an older “retiree” who had to go back to work to supplement his income or qualify for health insurance?

Faith in Companys and their big Tax break is unfounded and another nail in the coffin of the middle class

https://www.forbes.com/sites/edwards.../#b411c055b6fb

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research...uth-west-again

The nails in the coffin of the middle class could slowly be removed by freeing up the market. Lower taxes and proper deregulation can only help. Without that, the nails are already implanted. And the status quo is a vector in the direction of more nails.

Of course, we can just go full socialism. Then we will all be in the same class (except for the privileged government administrators). I don't think you could call that class the middle. Maybe just something like "the proletariat."

[Sea Dangles]

Zing🎯
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[Nebe]

What does that mean exactly. “World economic growth”. If we look at economic growth, we usually divide it in 2. The first is “Wall Street”. The 2nd is “Main st”. My guess is that this growth will favor Wall Street much more than Main st.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

What does that mean exactly. “World economic growth”.

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we'll get wdmso to look up the word "world" for you....

[Nebe]

The ability to claim deductions and lower your taxable income is the greatest way to stimulate the economy. Higher taxes would in theory push companies to seek out ways to find deductions through purchases, expansion, research, etc. a tax cut does the opposite and it’s an awful way to encourage a company to spend.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The ability to claim deductions and lower your taxable income is the greatest way to stimulate the economy. Higher taxes would in theory push companies to seek out ways to find deductions through purchases, expansion, research, etc. a tax cut does the opposite and it’s an awful way to encourage a company to spend.
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Nebe, just TRUST ME it will trickle down.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/21/news...lth/index.html

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The ability to claim deductions and lower your taxable income is the greatest way to stimulate the economy. Higher taxes would in theory push companies to seek out ways to find deductions through purchases, expansion, research, etc. a tax cut does the opposite and it’s an awful way to encourage a company to spend.
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You’re saying that the best way to stimulate the economy is to increase tax rates, and then encourage people to find ways to avoid taxes. That’s somehow better than just lowering taxes to begin with? Interesting.
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You’re saying that the best way to stimulate the economy is to increase tax rates, and then encourage people to find ways to avoid taxes. That’s somehow better than just lowering taxes to begin with? Interesting.
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You obviously don’t own a business. Talk to someone who does and they will say ol Nebe is right
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

You obviously don’t own a business. Talk to someone who does and they will say ol Nebe is right
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Why is it better to hire an accountant and a tax lawyer to get a lower tax rate, than it is for the feds to have that lower rate to begin with? Please explain.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Nebe

You obviously don’t own a business. Talk to someone who does and they will say ol Nebe is right
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You obviously could benefit from a deft accountant.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The ability to claim deductions and lower your taxable income is the greatest way to stimulate the economy. Higher taxes would in theory push companies to seek out ways to find deductions through purchases, expansion, research, etc. a tax cut does the opposite and it’s an awful way to encourage a company to spend.
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this is insanity

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

this is insanity

You're not following then.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

You're not following then.
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followed it perfectly...it's nonsense....the rest of that "theory" states that high taxes on individuals produce similar results because it "forces" them to work harder than they otherwise would to maintain and plan their life...to that I say GFY(theoretically)

[wdmso]

bill maher 2days ago made an observation trump loves to pick fights with blacks . And as if on cue he lashes out at Jay z (a nobody in the scheme of things) another example of what happens if you don't bend the knee

Unemployment is historically low across the board in the US not solely because of Trump but don't tell him


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42853225

[PaulS]

Trump does have a thing for trying to tell off black people. They should show a little "gratitude"
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Trump does have a thing for trying to tell off black people. They should show a little "gratitude"
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it's weird how some people desperately try to inject racism into everything...do you work at ESPN?

I just learned that Jay-Z's producer's name is "No I.D."....that's pretty funny

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

it's weird how some people desperately try to inject racism into everything...do you work at ESPN?
No, but my BIL does
I just learned that Jay-Z's producer's name is "No I.D."....that's pretty funny

He has a long history of having issues w/Blacks. Goes back to when he got in trouble for discriminating against them in not renting apartments.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

He has a long history of having issues w/Blacks. Goes back to when he got in trouble for discriminating against them in not renting apartments.

I saw a video of Jesse Jackson honoring and praising him at a Rainbow Coalition function....you'd think he'd know

[Jim in CT]

Atta boy, Columbo!!

Obama...always wrong, yet never in doubt.
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[PaulS]

He might of gotten paid off.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

He might of gotten paid off.

yup...the Russians paid him off