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Old 09-30-2009, 12:07 PM   #91
scottw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bocephus View Post
just for the record, Wikipedia is not a definitive source for anything. Its a reference point for terms and definitions, often giving vague and sometimes wrong answers. Should be used as a starting off point for research, not as a reliable source of info.
you forgot editorialized and/or opinionated answers...which seems odd

I only use it because it 's one of the lib's favorite sources for the "last word" on topics and definitions...gotta use NY Times, MSNBC. CNN and WIKI for sources around here or you are attacked for using right wing propoganda

Last edited by scottw; 09-30-2009 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:14 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Fly Rod View Post
If your plan is so terrible why would you switch your wife to your plan?
We've been on my plan for some time now. My frustration with our current plan is that out of pocket expenses have skyrocketed the past few years. My assumption is that this has happened to most people.

We have thought about comparing our present situation with what her company could offer and see if there's a net benefit.

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Is hers worse or do you feel that they owe you more such as free gym?
We used to have a gym reimbursement which was taken away some time ago. I found this to be silly...

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For my family plan of 12,000 dollar plan which my employer pays fully We do have to pay the first 1,000 of doctor,medical bills that acumulate for the year. Nothing is taken out of my pay check to pay towards the premium. I'm futher ahead of the game then having to pay 30 - 40% of the premium.
I'd like that better than what we have. I pay several hundred each month for my family plan w/some deductibles.

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There are employers that will negotiate some of the difference if the employee chooses not to use the companies plan.
And (for the millionth friggin time) I never said there wasn't!

-spence
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:15 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
You know he's frustrated when he starts with the petty insults. In his defense, it must get hard trying to play devil's advocate all day.
just look at his picture, it's wearing him down, he looks like Karl Marx in drag...
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:17 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by spence View Post

And (for the millionth friggin time) I never said there wasn't!

-spence
you inferred it...

your insurance company must LOVE getting phone calls from you
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:18 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by spence View Post
I think this is the root of your problem, you're just making too many assumptions.

-spence
No, no problem here. You seem to be the one making assumptions about me having a problem with something. I try not to assume anything because you know what that does. And we both know that you like to play devil's advocate. Were you on the debate team at your HS?


Edit: I just remembered that I do sometimes make assumptions. I often assume that I'm getting hits from large fish when in reality, my eel is just bouncing off some rocks on the bottom.

Last edited by fishbones; 09-30-2009 at 12:20 PM.. Reason: added content

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:58 PM   #96
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it doesn't matter what I think is healthy and unhealthy...it's none of my business what someone else eats....
Fine, I understand the slippery slope of food, but something like smoking, a known carcinogen with a direct link to lung cancer, and has deleterious effects on others around you? Absolutely, make it undesirable, and if you still want to smoke, then lets raise some revenue on it!


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Originally Posted by scottw View Post
drop smokers from insurance and then maybe deny them treatment because they smoked??? what does "encouraging" mean.....it all just fine till someone decides that they don't like what "YOU" are doing and decide to tax it or "encourage" you to stop
Yup, absolutely. Offer options for addiction treatment etc to ween off but, basically yeah. If someone chose to eat asbestos for breakfast everyday, you can drop them too!

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:13 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
Were you on the debate team at your HS?
Nope...

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Edit: I just remembered that I do sometimes make assumptions. I often assume that I'm getting hits from large fish when in reality, my eel is just bouncing off some rocks on the bottom.
Lighten up Francis.

-spence
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:14 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by scottw View Post
you inferred it...

your insurance company must LOVE getting phone calls from you
Nope, been arguing the opposite the entire time. You just want to bottom feed.

-spence
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:05 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by fishbones
Were you on the debate team at your HS?

Spence spent most of high school stuffed into a locker which is why he's such a nasty little man today
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:08 PM   #100
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[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;714734]Fine, I understand the slippery slope of food, but something like smoking, a known carcinogen with a direct link to lung cancer, and has deleterious effects on others around you? Absolutely, make it undesirable, and if you still want to smoke, then lets raise some revenue on it!




no, if it's so bad...ban it...


big congrats buddy....babies are great! enjoy the hell out of it, I really miss my kids being little...had twins though....lotsa diapers....
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:36 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
This is for Spence and JohnnyD. If an employee is smart enough, they should ask their employer for a higher pay rate if they decline the companies health plan. Many people don't realize this, but it is done in a lot of cases. A company pays a minimum of 60% of a health plans total premium and some pay much more. If a family plan costs an employer $600 per month and the employee declines coverage, the company saves that money. In some cases, the savings may not actually be $600 because depending on the total # of emplyees with the plan, mods are adjusted up or down. But, the savings will be pretty close to the $600 figure. If employers can save that money, it goes to the bottom line. JohnnyD should especially know this, as a business owner.

If an employee is smart and knows how to negotiate, they should ask for a higher salary in lieu of the medical benefits. In my wifes previous job, she negotiated a higher salary because she was on my medical insurance and didn't need it from her company. Because she was informed, she spoke to the HR person and was able to get almost the full cost of the insurance added to her pay.

Companies would rather people decline coverage because it's a big saving for them. The cost of medical and dental insurance, holiday pay, 401K contributions, etc... are huge for a company.
All of this I am aware of.

However, in MA, I didn't think you could negotiate increased pay to an employee if they chose not to take the insurance. I thought health insurance had to be offered, under the same terms, to all employees in a similar position. All my employees are long-time employees that get health insurance from their spouses, so I haven't really had to look into the details of it.
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Old 09-30-2009, 07:54 PM   #102
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[QUOTE=scottw;714800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
but something like smoking, a known carcinogen with a direct link to lung cancer, and has deleterious effects on others around you? Absolutely, make it undesirable, and if you still want to smoke, then lets raise some revenue on it!




, if it's so bad...ban it...
Never happen, too many govt. taxes would be lost.

" Choose Life "
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:12 PM   #103
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Never happen, too many govt. taxes would be lost.
I'd be willing to bet that over the long term, the government pays out more on health care for smokers than they collect in taxes.
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:36 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
All of this I am aware of.

However, in MA, I didn't think you could negotiate increased pay to an employee if they chose not to take the insurance. I thought health insurance had to be offered, under the same terms, to all employees in a similar position. All my employees are long-time employees that get health insurance from their spouses, so I haven't really had to look into the details of it.

You're right in that you have to offer insurance to all people in a particular class if you offer it to one person in that class(ie. all salaried employees), but you can discriminate based on classes (hourly v. salary, full time v. part-time). You also can negotiate anything as far as compensation. No one can decide what a private company can pay their employees. Consider that women still lag behind men with the same experience and qualifications in pay rates for similar positions.

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:56 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
You're right in that you have to offer insurance to all people in a particular class if you offer it to one person in that class(ie. all salaried employees), but you can discriminate based on classes (hourly v. salary, full time v. part-time). You also can negotiate anything as far as compensation. No one can decide what a private company can pay their employees. Consider that women still lag behind men with the same experience and qualifications in pay rates for similar positions.
That's what I thought. As such, in MA, you can't really negotiate to agree not to take health insurance for higher pay if you have anyone in the same class as you.

As such, scott's argument is invalid - like I said from the beginning.
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:27 AM   #106
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I don't think that's what he said JD...

which of these is actually true???

JohnnyD;714628]

Concerning:
I pay 100% of my health insurance because I own a business. On the other hand, my employees only pay *a portion* of their health insurance because *I* pay the other portion out of *my* (the business's) revenue

All my employees are long-time employees that get health insurance from their spouses, so I haven't really had to look into the details of it.
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:28 AM   #107
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That's what I thought. As such, in MA, you can't really negotiate to agree not to take health insurance for higher pay if you have anyone in the same class as you.

As such, scott's argument is invalid - like I said from the beginning.
Where is there something saying that an employee in MA can't negotiate a higher salary in lieu of health benefits? I'm confused about this because I know of several people who have negotiated higher salaries because they didn't need to enroll in their company sponsored health plan. The class argument is only that it has to be offered to all employees of the same class. Some may take the insurance, and some may pass on it. If someone passes on it because they have a plan through their spouse, they save the company money. If they are smart, they tell the boss that they'd like a higher salary because they are saving the company X amount of dollars.

So from what I read above, Scott's argument is perfectly valid.

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:24 AM   #108
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You're right


he only read this much of your post then stopped
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:54 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
I don't think that's what he said JD...

which of these is actually true???

JohnnyD;714628]

Concerning:
I pay 100% of my health insurance because I own a business. On the other hand, my employees only pay *a portion* of their health insurance because *I* pay the other portion out of *my* (the business's) revenue

All my employees are long-time employees that get health insurance from their spouses, so I haven't really had to look into the details of it.

Both
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:10 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
I don't think that's what he said JD...

which of these is actually true???

JohnnyD;714628]

Concerning:
I pay 100% of my health insurance because I own a business. On the other hand, my employees only pay *a portion* of their health insurance because *I* pay the other portion out of *my* (the business's) revenue

All my employees are long-time employees that get health insurance from their spouses, so I haven't really had to look into the details of it.
The second is what is currently true. But we have been in business for 11 years. Most of which was before the MA law. Doesn't change how the expense is treated. Nice try though.

I'll try and find a reference to what I mentioned above regarding negotiating pay.
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:48 PM   #111
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Scenario
company has 30-40 employees on assembly line making 20 bucks an hour, paid vacation, sick days, health plan and union. One employees wife has better health plan. In this scenario the assembly worker most likely will not be able to negotiate a higher wage.

machinist, carpenter, plumber in a non union shop of X number of employees, hourly or piece work, excellent at his job, paid vaction, sick days, health plan. Wife has better health plan. This person may be able to negotiate a higher wage if he goes on wives health plan. Depends on the value of worker.

Salesman is a top producer, may negotiate with employer for higher % split if wife has better health care.
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Old 10-02-2009, 11:56 AM   #112
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The second is what is currently true can't be based on the first .But we have been in business for 11 years. Most of which was before the MA lawwhich one?. Doesn't change how the expense is treated. Nice try though.

I'll try and find a reference to what I mentioned above regarding negotiating pay.
why did your credability hole any deeper?
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:54 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Fly Rod View Post
Scenario
company has 30-40 employees on assembly line making 20 bucks an hour, paid vacation, sick days, health plan and union. One employees wife has better health plan. In this scenario the assembly worker most likely will not be able to negotiate a higher wage.

machinist, carpenter, plumber in a non union shop of X number of employees, hourly or piece work, excellent at his job, paid vaction, sick days, health plan. Wife has better health plan. This person may be able to negotiate a higher wage if he goes on wives health plan. Depends on the value of worker.

Salesman is a top producer, may negotiate with employer for higher % split if wife has better health care.
A lot of this will depend on if an employee is exempt vs non-exempt...but you really can't compare a top sales person with a factory worker, it's a completely different world.

-spence
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:25 PM   #114
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Just an update.
They will cut $500 Billion from Medicare to help pay for Obamacare and the Feds say
Medicare premiums will go up another 15% next year.

Social security going broke, Medicare on the way.
Don't get old guys.

I know, I know, a lot of young guys on here, but trust me, now your running, soon you'll be walking.

" Choose Life "
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:40 PM   #115
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Work hard, save, accumulate assets, play by the rules - you'll end up in nursing home next to an ex-con who never paid into anything, getting your ass roughly wiped by somebody who does not like your skin color.
The only difference is the government will make sure that the person who worked is good and broke before they let them in.

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Old 10-20-2009, 12:48 PM   #116
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Work hard, save, accumulate assets, play by the rules - you'll end up in nursing home next to an ex-con who never paid into anything, getting your ass roughly wiped by somebody who does not like your skin color.
The only difference is the government will make sure that the person who worked is good and broke before they let them in.
Sad but true, Joe.

Seeing all these years paying into Soc Sec and nothing will be left , yet there are people who think Obamacare will work.

" Choose Life "
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:49 AM   #117
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Hi to all.
Your own and many other people's.
Don't forget about your taxes that already go to cover
people on government plans like RIte Care.

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