With no apologies, I offer you all this

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i it’s not by chance, it’s because it’s the truth. which of these am i making up?

Obama called conservatives bitter clingers and racists.

Hilary called them deplorable
and irredeemable.

Biden said they want to put blacks in chains.

If i called you the n word again and again and again, would you eventually have a negative opinion of me? wouldn’t you be justified in having a negative opinion of me?

now, since you know that crime and cost of living and economic opportunity are why people are fleeing blue states for red states, please tell me what the reason is?

second time i asked.
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yes Jim and all liberals are communist and socialist and stole the election

See how it works Jim those claims none you posted are based in facts they were exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

But clearly you and others need to take those statements literally because if you don’t then the Republicans narrative falls apart outrage is its oxygen with out it Republicans have no platform.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

yes Jim and all liberals are communist and socialist and stole the election

See how it works Jim those claims none you posted are based in facts they were exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

But clearly you and others need to take those statements literally because if you don’t then the Republicans narrative falls apart outrage is its oxygen with out it Republicans have no platform.
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“they’re exaggerated statements? i exaggerated them? that’s what you’re saying?

it’s exaggeration to say obama called conservatives bitter clingers and racists?

it’s exaggeration to say hilary called them deplorable and irredeemable?

it’s exaggeration to say that biden said they want to put blacks in chains?

i don’t think you know what exaggeration means.

outrage isn’t my oxygen. results are.

for the third time now, why are people fleeing blue states for conservative places?

you can’t answer. just dodge and insult me for pointing it out. that doesn’t tell you anything? it doesn’t suggest that your positions are thoughtless, baseless, and stupid?
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[Jim in CT]

wayne, are you desperately searching online for a pro-liberal reason why people are fleeing blue states?
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[zimmy]

Originally Posted by wdmso

yes Jim and all liberals are communist and socialist and stole the election

See how it works Jim those claims none you posted are based in facts they were exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

But clearly you and others need to take those statements literally because if you don’t then the Republicans narrative falls apart outrage is its oxygen with out it Republicans have no platform.
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I only see what Jim posts when he is quoted, but since I saw his nonsense:
8 out of top 10 states for crime are red states; 9 out of 10 poorest states are red. In the top 10 safest states are ME, VT, NH, MA, RI, CT, NJ, MN, with some yearly variation. People making money in blue states and retiring to red states may not fully reflect life in blue states vs red states.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I only see what Jim posts when he is quoted, but since I saw his nonsense:
8 out of top 10 states for crime are red states; 9 out of 10 poorest states are red. In the top 10 safest states are ME, VT, NH, MA, RI, CT, NJ, MN, with some yearly variation. People making money in blue states and retiring to red states may not fully reflect life in blue states vs red states.
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and if i had posted that red states have no crime, you’d have made me look foolish.

what i said, is that conservatives and liberals have different views on crime. conservatives tend to be a lot more strict.

again, people are fleeing liberal states for conservative states. why is that?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

OK, Jeff. Come back here. Please explain which definition of hyperbole you are choosing, and please point to the statement which you are referring to.... You don't get to take that pot shot here today... I will be bacl later.

The statements are extreme and absurd. Pretty much all of it.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

it’s exaggeration to say obama called conservatives bitter clingers and racists?

it’s exaggeration to say hilary called them deplorable and irredeemable

Neither is true.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Neither is true.
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obama...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...selections2008

hilary...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.co...pt/%3famp=true

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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

obama...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...selections2008

hilary...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.co...pt/%3famp=true

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Nope
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[Pete F.]

I’m not a racist.” So what if you are? What if most of us are racist? What if you’re more like people you judge than you realize? What if facing that helped us actually become more like the people we wish to be? I’m racist ffs. I have judgements about people of every background -- including literally the exact same mix that I am AND about my own self -- based on race. There are myriad semi-conscious and subconscious ways I feed systems and institutions that are infused with racism either because I don’t yet realize it, don’t know what to do about it, or am too tired or overwhelmed at any given moment to think of another option. I have to address and dismantle these things on a day to day, moment to moment basis, at the same frequency they are fed to me by what I watch, who I interact with, what and who I know is considered valuable by a society that is crumbling even as we are blindly scrambling to build on top of the rubble. Racism is in the air we breathe, it is locked into our DNA, it is recycled via memory and habit at every moment. Are you trying to cut down on frizz? Have you thought about why there are entire lines of hair products just for this dreaded ‘problem’? Do you call White people who aren’t as refined or “classy” as you White trash? Have you thought about why it was important to add White to the term? What is the normal kind of trash that the word White has to be added to so you can mark the distinction? Who that is not White do you call “pretty”? Why? What are their features? How often have you marveled at how well-spoken a White person was? Do you love Black people but not actually have any as friends? Do you have Black friends? How close are those relationships? Can you talk about race with them? Can they talk to you about it? Do you listen? Would they confirm that you listen? I’m not asking these things to shame anyone. Shame is only good as a touchstone: Does x feel icky? Yes? Ok that goes on the list of things I need to work on. Work on it. Do better next time -- because there will be a next time. Keep working. I don’t want you to wallow in shame. Chronic shame is addictive and just breeds more to be ashamed of. I think that may be where we’re at now. Hundreds of years of chronic shame. How many of our White ancestors heard rapes and beatings of enslaved Africans and could not or would not act to stop them? How many prayed in church the next day beside or in front of the perpetrators? How many were married to the perpetrators? How many were the perpetrators themselves? How many were told that the enslaved were a different kind of human, barely human, not human? How many were told Black people couldn’t feel pain? How many were told Black people didn’t have souls? How many of our White ancestors watched as kidnapped humans were placed naked on auction blocks in the center of their towns at a time when it was considered scandalous to glimpse someone’s leg or back unclothed? How many watched those same humans toil in fields -- knowing it was forced labor? How many couldn’t afford that kind of ‘help’ but wished they could? How many deplored the entire business but still wore cotton clothing, smoked tobacco, ate the food that others suffered and died for to get to them because they didn’t know what else to do or had no other tolerable, or survivable, choice? How many practiced generation after generation not seeing these things because to see meant to take responsibility and the responsibility was too daunting, too inconvenient, too terrifying, too unnecessary, or too deadly to take on? When slavery was abolished the system was renamed, rearranged, and still maintained lower-class citizenship and danger for Black people. It didn’t disappear. Do you think it did for Whites? Do you think the scars of slavery were limited to the backs of the enslaved and not their hearts and souls -- or yours? Do you think witnessing horrific abuses (let alone those who directly perpetrated) for generations had no lasting effects on your people? Our people? Do you think we don’t all have PTSD? Do you think that passing down from parent to child the tradition of feeling like a pristinely *good person* while immersed in tyranny ended when the laws changed? Do you think White folks who immigrated (or emigrated) after slavery or lived in parts of the country where it ended earlier didn’t benefit from a playing field left profoundly uneven after hundreds of years of trade in humans and the deceptively underpriced goods they produced? You know the denial you see that leaves you frustrated after Thanksgiving with your family? You know how baffling it is to see a parent eating something that just hurts them later? Or drinking too much? Or ignoring all the work you’ve done in your field of endeavor because it doesn’t measure up to an ideal they imagined for you when you were in diapers? You know how folks pick fights that only get themselves more angry, more hurt, that make them look terrible in front of everyone when they take things too far, when they hang onto an incorrect point rather than concede defeat because then they’d have to feel the embarrassment everyone else feels for them? You know the whispers (or desperate pleas) about abuse in so many of our families that are ignored, hidden, ‘forgotten’ about? You know that person who just can not bring themself to say the words “I’m sorry,” and mean them? You know how folks say they’re fine when they’re not? You know how you say you’re fine when you’re not? This nation was built on denial. We’re in denial about how deep that runs. We’re in denial about how much our relationship to race and our history has driven this. We still act as if we live apart. We still act as if we can somehow be pristine. We can not. No one gets out of this country -- or this life -- unscathed. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. You can look within yourself and see racism there and not necessarily see or be a bad person. In fact, I’d argue that if you’re someone who wants to be good, who then looks within and finds something bad there, that the truthfulness and courage it takes to do that are a foundation for goodness as solid and sturdy as any foundation you could wish to build your character on. To see things that are racist within yourself, or in your actions, means you have a fighting chance of keeping these things from hurting yourself and others. To face something this big and ugly and to overcome aspects of it bit by bit will strengthen every aspect of your being. Who knows what you could accomplish or contribute with this strength. To do this, to practice seeing oneself justly requires a counterbalance of forgiveness. It requires an acceptance of the self as a whole, flawed, but nonetheless valuable, being. It requires kindness, compassion, patience. It requires action in order to correct the flaws, and the resilience to refine the corrections. It requires the ability to tolerate one’s anger and frustration with oneself for not being Good yet. It requires the capacity to receive the anger and frustration others have while having to deal with our shortcomings. It requires building the kind of goodwill in relationships that can sustain those feelings. It requires exactly the things it takes to heal the festering wounds of racism in ourselves and each other. All of it is love. Perhaps earlier in our history we wouldn’t have been as equipped to do this. We have now reached a point collectively where we have access to every resource we could need to support this journey. Through the internet we can ask every question, see nearly every perspective, and access numerous groups and individuals and publications to support the often soul-crushing but ultimately soul-freeing journey. When it gets too hard there are many people like you who can say “I’ve been there. This is what helped.” When we need spiritual support there is no shortage of individuals or entire congregations that will pray for us. There are countless lessons in the holy scriptures of the world that apply. There are answers and peace in meditation. There is solace and illumination in music and other arts. We can completely anonymously engage with any of these resources online. It’s time. Black people are still dying. Even our best institutions need the legacy of slavery to be carefully extricated from their roots. We still wear clothes and eat food brought to us by people who are suffering and even dying to get them to us. When that gets overwhelming remember it’s been that way a very long time and you’re still here. No one got it all the way right before and you will not get it all the way right now. This will not likely be solved in your lifetime and you definitely won’t solve this on your own. The more you work on it the more likely you are to attract others you can lean on or learn from or give support to. You’ll find friends you never knew you’d have. Some of those friends will become the kind of found family that sustains you and that you can sustain and create with. You’ll be surrounded by folks who will face things with you and who will remind you that you’re worthy even when you’re not perfect. You won’t have to rely on those who are hurting to make you feel better. You won’t have to rely on anyone thinking you’re good. You’ll be reminded by your own experience that goodness is not a static state, but that the good things you do will build within you a better and better character. And that character will become a small but sturdy brick in the strong foundation the future of this nation can be built on. Work on it. Do better next time -- because there will be a next time. Keep working.
P.F.H.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Nope
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yes. literally and exactly. you might be inserting your tampons too far and they’re penetrating your brain.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I’m not a racist.

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pete, for your new year's resolution can you possibly resolve to limit the size of your posts?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I only see what Jim posts when he is quoted, but since I saw his nonsense:

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if you have people blocked you are really a freaking two year old

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

yes. literally and exactly. you might be inserting your tampons too far and they’re penetrating your brain.
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Neither remark was made about conservatives Jim. You are why this thread exists.
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[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by spence

The statements are extreme and absurd. Pretty much all of it.
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Wow. And I thought they, for the most part, represented a middle of the road, centralist, boring, conservative, don't rock the boat point of view. Never would I have dreamed that they would be labeled either extreme or absurd.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Neither remark was made about conservatives Jim. You are why this thread exists.
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who were those comments aimed at? The Whigs? The Tories?

Please enlighten me.

Hilary specified Trump supporters, Biden was talking about Romney supporters.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Wow. And I thought they, for the most part, represented a middle of the road, centralist, boring, conservative, don't rock the boat point of view. Never would I have dreamed that they would be labeled either extreme or absurd.

For the most part just twisted generalizations in a “I don’t eat cheese so I must be anti bovine” sort of way.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

so what’s the other 90% of why they are fleeing blue states for red states?


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once again looking for others to do the work for you

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by spence

For the most part just twisted generalizations in a “I don’t eat cheese so I must be anti bovine” sort of way.
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Oh, I have to save that one, Jeff, before the edit... Might be one of the best you have ever posted

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Oh, I have to save that one, Jeff, before the edit... Might be one of the best you have ever posted

Cow hater
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

who were those comments aimed at?
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The audiences. Still neither was directed at conservatives.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Never would I have dreamed that they would be labeled either extreme or absurd.

it's how they roll...which is pretty funny for a bunch of communists...

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

it's how they roll...which is pretty funny for a bunch of communists...

Cow hater
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

once again looking for others to do the work for you

Jim: people are leaving blue states for red states.

wdmso: that’s only 10% of the story.

jim: what’s the other 90% of the story.

wdmso: i’m not telling.

in other words, you made it up, allied you on it, and
you got nothing.

those are some well thought out beliefs you got there.
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[zimmy]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Wow. And I thought they, for the most part, represented a middle of the road, centralist, boring, conservative, don't rock the boat point of view. Never would I have dreamed that they would be labeled either extreme or absurd.

You should read them again. Who ever said someone who plans and saves is a fascist? You also don't like the actual borderline fascist. A fascist pardons war criminals and his corrupt cronies, they aren't regular people who save. Pretty sure no one ever said that, unless it was spin by right wing entertainment "news."
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

You should read them again. Who ever said someone who plans and saves is a fascist? You also don't like the actual borderline fascist. A fascist pardons war criminals and his corrupt cronies, they aren't regular people who save. Pretty sure no one ever said that, unless it was spin by right wing entertainment "news.

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Is it just me or does this make absolutely no sense?
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Jim: people are leaving blue states for red states.

wdmso: that’s only 10% of the story.

jim: what’s the other 90% of the story.

wdmso: i’m not telling.

in other words, you made it up, allied you on it, and
you got nothing.

those are some well thought out beliefs you got there.
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Know a lot who moved for work and retirement or who stayed after the military. Or better weather hence why the majority remain liberal minded

Not 1 left because of Democratic-majority policies that result in high taxes, over-regulation, powerful unions, failing schools, increasing crime and anti-religious intolerance I am sure in the masses someone may have moved based on the Above ,, however the reality’s is

That’s your fantasy and many other Republicans on why this migration has been going on for decades ,

Top states people moved to: 2019
Vermont (72.1%)
Oregon (63.8%)
Idaho (62.4%)
Nevada (61.8%)
Arizona (60.2%)
South Carolina (59.9%)
Washington (58.8%)
South Dakota (57%)

I see most of the states have low population and a mix or red and blue
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Know a lot who moved for work and retirement or who stayed after the military. Or better weather hence why the majority remain liberal minded

Not 1 left because of Democratic-majority policies that result in high taxes, over-regulation, powerful unions, failing schools, increasing crime and anti-religious intolerance I am sure in the masses someone may have moved based on the Above ,, however the reality’s is

That’s your fantasy and many other Republicans on why this migration has been going on for decades ,

Top states people moved to: 2019
Vermont (72.1%)
Oregon (63.8%)
Idaho (62.4%)
Nevada (61.8%)
Arizona (60.2%)
South Carolina (59.9%)
Washington (58.8%)
South Dakota (57%)

I see most of the states have low population and a mix or red and blue
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your personal observations don’t matter. the totals matter. people are fleeing blue states and moving to NC, SC, TN, GA, FL, TX.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Not 1 left because of Democratic-majority policies that result in high taxes, over-regulation, powerful unions, failing schools, increasing crime and anti-religious intolerance

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https://www.city-journal.org/blue-st...nia-businesses

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

https://www.city-journal.org/blue-st...nia-businesses

Guess you missed my comment was about people I knew , who moved, not a general statement like Jim or your link but I am not surprised seeing you guys love presenting generalized impressions as cause and the sole reason why people move
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