Syria , the Presidents biggest embarrasment of all

[spence]

Or...it could be some brilliant political maneuvering in a nearly impossible situation with significant consequences.

If Obama can negotiate via Russia a WMD disarmament without force that would be huge. It also draws a very clear line for future action that even UN veto darlings won't be able to contain.

Hell, it has the potential to stall the entire civil war and the rise of radicalism underway.

I remember just after 9/11 thanking the expert foreign policy team Bush had in place...and look what happened then.

Perhaps these people are a hell of a lot smarter than you're giving them credit for.

-spence

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by spence

Or...it could be some brilliant political maneuvering in a nearly impossible situation with significant consequences.

If Obama can negotiate via Russia a WMD disarmament without force that would be huge. It also draws a very clear line for future action that even UN veto darlings won't be able to contain.

Hell, it has the potential to stall the entire civil war and the rise of radicalism underway.

I remember just after 9/11 thanking the expert foreign policy team Bush had in place...and look what happened then.

Perhaps these people are a hell of a lot smarter than you're giving them credit for.

-spence

Stop playing me for stupid. You are dreaming... I just wish you were a paid political spinmeister. It pains me to think you really believe some of the crap I've seen you post. We are just polar opposites.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Or...it could be some brilliant political maneuvering in a nearly impossible situation with significant consequences.

If Obama can negotiate via Russia a WMD disarmament without force that would be huge. It also draws a very clear line for future action that even UN veto darlings won't be able to contain.

Hell, it has the potential to stall the entire civil war and the rise of radicalism underway.

I remember just after 9/11 thanking the expert foreign policy team Bush had in place...and look what happened then.

Perhaps these people are a hell of a lot smarter than you're giving them credit for.

-spence

Wow. Here is Spence's opus. Wow. Whew!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Or...it could be some brilliant political maneuvering in a nearly impossible situation with significant consequences.

If Obama can negotiate via Russia a WMD disarmament without force that would be huge. It also draws a very clear line for future action that even UN veto darlings won't be able to contain.

Hell, it has the potential to stall the entire civil war and the rise of radicalism underway.

I remember just after 9/11 thanking the expert foreign policy team Bush had in place...and look what happened then.

Perhaps these people are a hell of a lot smarter than you're giving them credit for.

-spence

First off this idea started with a slip up by Kerry. Putin played it brilliantly . Think for a moment Spence.
In order to negotiate a deal Assad has to be in charge. Exactly what Obama did not want .
You are going to retrieve chemical weapons from a nation in civil war?? It will take years if it can happen with any success at all.
By negotiating this deal Putin now looks like the world's leader.
Putin has handed Obama a face saving out and the self serving commander and chief will run with it .
Nothing accomplished , just a step in the wrong direction. His legacy !!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

First off this idea started with a slip up by Kerry. Putin played it brilliantly . Think for a moment Spence.
In order to negotiate a deal Assad has to be in charge. Exactly what Obama did not want .
You are going to retrieve chemical weapons from a nation in civil war?? It will take years if it can happen with any success at all.
By negotiating this deal Putin now looks like the world's leader.
Putin has handed Obama a face saving out and the self serving commander and chief will run with it .
Nothing accomplished , just a step in the wrong direction. His legacy !!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I don't think Kerry's statement was a slip up at all. Obama's in a difficult situation and this was an even better option. For all we know Obama and Putin could have set the whole thing up last week. The timing of the three statements sounded nearly staged.

Now, instead of military strikes you have the potential for the WMD to simply be taken off the table...now the rebels won't have access to them either.

Assad's control is still pretty centralized. I don't think removing weapons will be an issue as they don't appear to have to pass through rebel territory.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I don't think Kerry's statement was a slip up at all. Obama's in a difficult situation and this was an even better option. For all we know Obama and Putin could have set the whole thing up last week. The timing of the three statements sounded nearly staged.

Now, instead of military strikes you have the potential for the WMD to simply be taken off the table...now the rebels won't have access to them either.

Assad's control is still pretty centralized. I don't think removing weapons will be an issue as they don't appear to have to pass through rebel territory.

-spence

"I don't think Kerry's statement was a slip up at all"

You don't? Well, Kerry's spokeswoman said it wasn't a real offer. Here is what she said...

“Secretary Kerry was making a rhetorical argument about the impossibility of Assad turning over chemical weapons he has denied he used. This brutal dictator with a history of playing fast and loose with the facts cannot be trusted to turn over chemical weapons"

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013...nty-of-strike/

Spence, take off your tin-foil hat for a change.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"I don't think Kerry's statement was a slip up at all"

You don't? Well, Kerry's spokeswoman said it wasn't a real offer. Here is what she said...

“Secretary Kerry was making a rhetorical argument about the impossibility of Assad turning over chemical weapons he has denied he used. This brutal dictator with a history of playing fast and loose with the facts cannot be trusted to turn over chemical weapons"

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013...nty-of-strike/

Spence, take off your tin-foil hat for a change.

Exactly Jim.
And why wouldn't Kerry say he was working on it ...what would the harm be of that ? Fools
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Now, instead of military strikes you have the potential for the WMD to simply be taken off the table...

-spence

You are too cute Spence. My nieces say cute things all the time that have a tinge more credibility
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

First off this idea started with a slip up by Kerry. Putin played it brilliantly .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's exactly what happened. Kerry opened his big fat mouth, even his own spokesperson claimed that it wasn't a real offer. Putin absolutely played it brilliantly, he played Obama's team like a Stradivarious deluxe. Putin looks like an absolute genius, Obama looks like the clueless unic that he is.

Spence, here's what you and your ilk haven't figured out yet. There is a huge difference between actually doing things in the world, versus talking about doing things in an Ivy League faculty room. What sounds brilliant in the faculty room at Harvard, doesn't always work in the real world.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

Putin has handed Obama a face saving out and the self serving commander and chief will run with it .
Nothing accomplished , just a step in the wrong direction. His legacy !!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Also exactly correct. Putin offers Obama an out that will (1) save Obama the humiliation of having Congress collectively tell him to 'get lost', and (2) leaves Putin's puppets in Syria and Iran happy and still in place, right where Putin wants them.

We're geting absolutely steamrolled by Russia on this one. Unless it plays out very differently than the direction it's currently heading.

Carter version 2.0

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Or...it could be some brilliant political maneuvering in a nearly impossible situation with significant consequences.



Perhaps these people are a hell of a lot smarter than you're giving them credit for.

-spence

Spence, I luv ya man, but for me to believe what you wrote, I would have to believe in the
Tooth Fairy too.
I will ask you again, even though I wouldn't expect an answer, but what would you
be saying about Bush under the same circumstances???

BTW- What would your posts be without words like Perhaps, or it could be.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, I luv ya man, but for me to believe what you wrote, I would have to believe in the
Tooth Fairy too.
I will ask you again, even though I wouldn't expect an answer, but what would you
be saying about Bush under the same circumstances???

BTW- What would your posts be without words like Perhaps, or it could be.

Very different circumstances. I supported the initial Iraq war justification by the way.

And people please, Obama didn't draw the red line to distract from the Snowden affair. Letting a WMD attack go post 9/11 is an extremely dangerous precedent.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Very different circumstances. I supported the Iraq war initially by the way.

-spence

It is different.

I can't decide where I stand on the issue of mi;litary action here. So it's not Obama's position that I necessarily object to, it's the way he has gone about it.


He claims that Syria has crossed the red line, then goes to play golf.
He talks about military action, then punts it to Congress.
His Secstate makes a non-serious comment, tells us that it could never be done. now they're touting it as the greatest idea ever.
All the while Putin is literally making Obama look like a child.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It is different.

I can't decide where I stand on the issue of mi;litary action here. So it's not Obama's position that I necessarily object to, it's the way he has gone about it.

I don't think military action is mandatory unless the goal is to depose which it's been stated that's it's not. That being said, something has to be done to recognize the situation.

The admin has never been good at PR, this is nothing new.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Very different circumstances.

-spence

Spence the question was, and I state for the 3rd time, "What would you be saying about Bush in the SAME circumstances."

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by spence

Or...it could be some brilliant political maneuvering in a nearly impossible situation with significant consequences.

If Obama can negotiate via Russia a WMD disarmament without force that would be huge. It also draws a very clear line for future action that even UN veto darlings won't be able to contain.

Hell, it has the potential to stall the entire civil war and the rise of radicalism underway.

I remember just after 9/11 thanking the expert foreign policy team Bush had in place...and look what happened then.

Perhaps these people are a hell of a lot smarter than you're giving them credit for.

-spence

Yeah they are unsung heroes. Politicians never toot their own horns to make themselves look better.

Come back to earth man!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device