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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

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Old 10-22-2018, 03:53 PM   #1
wdmso
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Trump and Nukes

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45946930


Mr Trump said the US would build up its arsenal "until people come to their senses".


When will people who support this clown come to their senses ?
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Old 10-22-2018, 04:42 PM   #2
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Wayne,go out and catch some fish that swim,lol.
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Old 10-23-2018, 04:22 AM   #3
wdmso
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Wayne,go out and catch some fish that swim,lol.
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What's funny you show more concern for Human caravan...

than Trump Threatening another Nuclear arms race
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:28 AM   #4
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Ha, looks like I have on a big one.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:20 PM   #5
detbuch
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Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45946930


Mr Trump said the US would build up its arsenal "until people come to their senses".


When will people who support this clown come to their senses ?
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - NATO formally accused Russia on Tuesday of breaching the 1987 Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, which rid Europe of land-based nuclear missiles, issuing a statement that supported U.S. accusations of Russian violations.
"Allies have concluded that Russia has developed and fielded a missile system, the 9M729, which violates the INF Treaty and poses significant risks to Euro-Atlantic security," NATO foreign ministers said in a statement after a meeting.
"We strongly support the finding of the United States that Russia is in material breach of its obligations under the INF Treaty," the statement said.
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:29 PM   #6
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BRUSSELS (Reuters) - NATO formally accused Russia on Tuesday of breaching the 1987 Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, which rid Europe of land-based nuclear missiles, issuing a statement that supported U.S. accusations of Russian violations.
"Allies have concluded that Russia has developed and fielded a missile system, the 9M729, which violates the INF Treaty and poses significant risks to Euro-Atlantic security," NATO foreign ministers said in a statement after a meeting.
"We strongly support the finding of the United States that Russia is in material breach of its obligations under the INF Treaty," the statement said.

This is not new news
the Obama administration accused the Russians of violating the pact by developing and testing a prohibited cruise missile. This isn't new what's new is Trump looking to start another arms race .. Once the United States withdraws from the treaty, there is no reason for Russia to even pretend it is observing the limits," . "Moscow will be free to deploy the 9M729 cruise missile, and an intermediate-range ballistic missile if it wants, without any restraint."

Trump clearly doesn't care or understand .. Yes Test are bad but deployments change the playing field... so my concern is unchanged
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:02 PM   #7
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This is not new news
the Obama administration accused the Russians of violating the pact by developing and testing a prohibited cruise missile. This isn't new what's new is Trump looking to start another arms race .. Once the United States withdraws from the treaty, there is no reason for Russia to even pretend it is observing the limits," . "Moscow will be free to deploy the 9M729 cruise missile, and an intermediate-range ballistic missile if it wants, without any restraint."

Trump clearly doesn't care or understand .. Yes Test are bad but deployments change the playing field... so my concern is unchanged
It is new in that NATO is formally accusing Russia of breaching the INF treaty. It previously suspected it but did not conclusively support that idea. Now "Allies have concluded that Russia has developed and fielded a missile system, the 9M729, which violates the INF Treaty and poses significant risks to Euro-Atlantic security," NATO foreign ministers said in a statement after a meeting.
"We strongly support the finding of the United States that Russia is in material breach of its obligations under the INF Treaty," the statement said.

Russia can no longer "even pretend it is [or was] observing the limits." It can't pretend that it is deploying its system because the US is withdrawing from the treaty. It is now evident that Russia was the one who had breached the treaty and the US is reacting to Russia. What Russia had already done, before the US did anything, had posed a significant threat to Euro-Atlantic security. If the US had stayed in the treaty, that significant threat was already existing due to Russia's cheating. The U.S. reaction is a buffer to Russia's threat. It no longer can pretend and it can't blame the U.S. What The U.S. has done has not escalated the threat, it leverages the ability of NATO to negotiate a Russian scrap of its missile system or no longer be the only big dog with such a system.
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:11 PM   #8
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46458604


Russia will build missiles if US leaves treaty, Putin warns

Speaking after the release of Nato's statement, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Russia had 60 days to return to compliance with the treaty, after which time the US would suspend its own compliance.

Just the end result I spoke of ...

its funny to see what Trump supporters Believe and what they dont believe from their own government
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Old 12-05-2018, 05:01 PM   #9
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46458604


Russia will build missiles if US leaves treaty, Putin warns

Speaking after the release of Nato's statement, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Russia had 60 days to return to compliance with the treaty, after which time the US would suspend its own compliance.

Just the end result I spoke of ...

its funny to see what Trump supporters Believe and what they dont believe from their own government
Can you explain why Russia would breach the treaty by building a missile system? According to your article "Analysts say Russia sees the weapons as a cheaper alternative to conventional forces." So Russia wants the system as a means to launch missiles that it intends to build (because it's "cheaper"). What is the point of Putin's threat of saying Russia will build missiles if the US leaves the treaty, when he is going to build the missiles even if the US does not leave the treaty?

Can you explain what treaty the U.S. would be leaving if that treaty was already breached, nullified by Russia? Is there actually a functioning treaty if one of the signers is not abiding it? If one of the signers is not abiding the rules of the treaty, is it more than a piece of paper with no purpose other than the cheater gaining an illegal advantage?

Let me answer for you. Breaching a treaty nullifies it. A nullified treaty is no longer a treaty, no longer an agreement that is worth complying with. If Russia does not return to compliance, it would be suicidally stupid to just disregard Russia's cheating and doing nothing to counter it.

Putin seems to be a tester. He tests how far he can go before there is a forceful reaction. Crimea was a test. He found that he could grab back some land with no real forceful kickback. He is probably seeing that he can incrementally do things by denying, threatening retaliation, then getting away with it. He sees a weak Europe, and is testing to see if the US will continue to be as pliable as the previous administrations.

What, we're just supposed to tell Putin what he's doing is a no-no? Just cut it out? Right . . . Right . . . that'll do it.

What is your solution to Russia's building a missile system against his treaty obligations while no one else is allowed to?
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Old 12-06-2018, 05:14 AM   #10
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Can you explain why Russia would breach the treaty by building a missile system? According to your article "Analysts say Russia sees the weapons as a cheaper alternative to conventional forces." So Russia wants the system as a means to launch missiles that it intends to build (because it's "cheaper"). What is the point of Putin's threat of saying Russia will build missiles if the US leaves the treaty, when he is going to build the missiles even if the US does not leave the treaty?

Can you explain what treaty the U.S. would be leaving if that treaty was already breached, nullified by Russia? Is there actually a functioning treaty if one of the signers is not abiding it? If one of the signers is not abiding the rules of the treaty, is it more than a piece of paper with no purpose other than the cheater gaining an illegal advantage?

Let me answer for you. Breaching a treaty nullifies it. A nullified treaty is no longer a treaty, no longer an agreement that is worth complying with. If Russia does not return to compliance, it would be suicidally stupid to just disregard Russia's cheating and doing nothing to counter it.

Putin seems to be a tester. He tests how far he can go before there is a forceful reaction. Crimea was a test. He found that he could grab back some land with no real forceful kickback. He is probably seeing that he can incrementally do things by denying, threatening retaliation, then getting away with it. He sees a weak Europe, and is testing to see if the US will continue to be as pliable as the previous administrations.

What, we're just supposed to tell Putin what he's doing is a no-no? Just cut it out? Right . . . Right . . . that'll do it.

What is your solution to Russia's building a missile system against his treaty obligations while no one else is allowed to?
its called diplomacy something Trump has left out of his tool box Putin is playing Trump like Kim today headline North Korea Seen Expanding Missile Base Trump is alone on an Island that he created Trump weakened europe with his america 1st policy alienating allies
but the right loves his tough talk ... our blood his guts

Not saying dont deal with Putin but Trump is one dimensional and that's not good ...
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:51 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
its called diplomacy something Trump has left out of his tool box Putin is playing Trump like Kim today headline North Korea Seen Expanding Missile Base Trump is alone on an Island that he created Trump weakened europe with his america 1st policy alienating allies
but the right loves his tough talk ... our blood his guts

Not saying dont deal with Putin but Trump is one dimensional and that's not good ...

^^^ Word Salad.

Very short version: RUS is likely in breach of the Treaty. The US / NATO has called them out. They (RUS) have 60 days to prove it.

Odds are that RUS Klub/Kaliber GLCM variants can be or have been easily modified to go beyond 500km so the missile system AND ground launchers are in violation.


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Old 12-06-2018, 09:31 AM   #12
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Missing from this discussion is China.
Most of their missiles fall into the banned range and they are believed to have little interest in becoming a signatory.

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Old 12-07-2018, 09:22 AM   #13
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Missing from this discussion is China.
Most of their missiles fall into the banned range and they are believed to have little interest in becoming a signatory.
Very true. Most nations are not signatory members - just US/USSR(RUS). Nobody wanted to run a sneak attack with no warning time to slip in a nuke. Shame that Russia would screw that up - but it costs them little for creating a lot of fuss and instability.

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