Sanctuary cities

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Define it Spence. I'm curious
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

There is no single definition I'm aware of. The term "sanctuary city" seems to be created by anti-illegal immigration folks.

There are a few issues I've read about. First, many cities have policies where they don't inquire about immigration status unless there's good reason because they don't want undocumented people to feel threatened to report crime. Studies appear to show this has been effective. New York City under Rudy Giuliani had such a policy when he was mayor.

Another problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between Federal and local laws. So lets say the police detain someone and under local law they can hold them for 24 hours. ICE gets involved and asks for the person to be detained for 48. If the city complies they get sued which costs them money the Feds don't reimburse so now the City has to sue the Federal Government.

The Inspector General has studied this and found the State's aren't breaking laws but some may report it as a Sanctuary City helping someone avoid deportation which is misleading.

While this murder was certainly tragic and seems as though a bad guy slipped through the cracks, it shouldn't invalidate the policy if there's a net benefit to help fight crime.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

There is no single definition I'm aware of. The term "sanctuary city" seems to be created by anti-illegal immigration folks.

There are a few issues I've read about. First, many cities have policies where they don't inquire about immigration status unless there's good reason because they don't want undocumented people to feel threatened to report crime. Studies appear to show this has been effective. New York City under Rudy Giuliani had such a policy when he was mayor.

Another problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between Federal and local laws. So lets say the police detain someone and under local law they can hold them for 24 hours. ICE gets involved and asks for the person to be detained for 48. If the city complies they get sued which costs them money the Feds don't reimburse so now the City has to sue the Federal Government.

The Inspector General has studied this and found the State's aren't breaking laws but some may report it as a Sanctuary City helping someone avoid deportation which is misleading.

While this murder was certainly tragic and seems as though a bad guy slipped through the cracks, it shouldn't invalidate the policy if there's a net benefit to help fight crime.

that was hilarious....did you really write that??

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

that was hilarious....did you really write that??

Are you having trouble comprehending it?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by scottw

that was hilarious....did you really write that??

I think he types these up some time so they can swept into the cloud and get recycled in other places. I like Spence, great choice in Beer and many things, but he is a Strategic Messager in RL

OK - ten minutes of Google-FU

http://sfgsa.org/index.aspx?page=1067

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I think he types these up some time so they can swept into the cloud and get recycled in other places. I like Spence, great choice in Beer and many things, but he is a Strategic Messager in RL

OK - ten minutes of Google-FU

Did you watch any of these videos? They pretty much just reinforce my two points...

[scottw]

[QUOTE=JohnR;1077611]I think he types these up some time so they can swept into the cloud and get recycled in other places. I like Spence, great choice in Beer and many things, but he is a Strategic Messager in RL

he is funny in his own odd way.....

[FishermanTim]

I believe the term "sanctuary city" was created by the liberal politicians as a means of getting word to their voter base as a means of ensuring votes of blind loyalty from the residents and their "new" friends and relatives.

Springfield Ma was one, called such 10+ years ago.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by spence

Did you watch any of these videos? They pretty much just reinforce my two points...

😂
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

Did you watch any of these videos? They pretty much just reinforce my two points...

Yes - "The term "sanctuary city" seems to be created by anti-illegal immigration folks."

That is why it is listed in the documents from the government of the City of San Francisco, the most right wing bitter clinging city in the Union. Clearly created by those opposed to anti-undocumented-aspiring-not-yet-(usually)-future-democratic-voters

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That is why it is listed in the documents from the government of the City of San Francisco, the most right wing bitter clinging city in the Union. Clearly created by those opposed to anti-undocumented-aspiring-not-yet-(usually)-future-democratic-voters

I said created not used. Many seem to want to give the impression that in these cities you're immune from deportation which simply isn't true. Some cities are more forgiving than others but they all work with the Feds.

Simple question, why do so many cities employ some sort of sanctuary policy unless it's effective at fighting crime?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Simple question, why do so many cities employ some sort of sanctuary policy unless it's effective at fighting crime?

you are on a roll ......

[Nebe]

I think it's more effective at creating democrat votes than preventing crime.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I think it's more effective at creating democrat votes than preventing crime.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's not what the police say.

[Nebe]

How about job creation for un skilled white males in the manual labor trades... Landscaping, roofing, construction, etc. Que?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

How about job creation for un skilled white males in the manual labor trades... Landscaping, roofing, construction, etc. Que?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Good lord, Nebe just claimed construction was an un skilled trade

Flame on.

[Nebe]

You obviously have never rubbed elbows with a framing crew
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

You obviously have never rubbed elbows with a framing crew
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Around here you're more likely to see roofers than framing.

[Fly Rod]

NEBE...U should read the book..."the millioniare next door."...and it may not B to late for U to become one....

[Nebe]

Why do you assume my net worth is less than 1 M ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jackbass]

Net worth over a million doesn't make a millionare. It makes an individual who has little access to free cash potentially high debt and operating costs that are high. My net worth is over a million dollars but I am frigging broke.

Sanctuary City like every other legal term or idea is open to interpretation. The city of Worcester just looked at proclaiming itself a sanctuary city, being the progressive super star that it is. City council doesn't understand why. But if San Fran is a sanctuary it's gotta be good.

My understanding is a municipality will not pursue individuals based on immigration status, further if an individual is involved with non violent illegal activity the Feds will not be notified based on immigration status.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Fly Rod]

Never assumed that....U mentioned un skilled labor......a million today is like 50 thou in the 70's....more then likely will not last in retirement....

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by Nebe

You obviously have never rubbed elbows with a framing crew
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I have worked in construction for over 40 years now and am considered by most to be highly skilled. What has been happening to this once proud profession is sad.

Unfortunately the illegals, who are unskilled in my opinion, provide cheap labor and do not pay workers compensation, insurance, taxes etc. making for an "uneven playing field". Legitimate companies can't compete with that.

You can subcontract the work to these illegals without the hassel of hiring as employees who would need documentation of their status.

Ok rant over ....time to head off to work ...probably to fix something that was framed improperly...not level/plumb, out of square, crooked, wrong measurement...

[Nebe]

That is exactly the point I was trying to make .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

I have worked in construction for over 40 years now and am considered by most to be highly skilled. What has been happening to this once proud profession is sad.

Unfortunately the illegals, who are unskilled in my opinion, provide cheap labor and do not pay workers compensation, insurance, taxes etc. making for an "uneven playing field". Legitimate companies can't compete with that.

You can subcontract the work to these illegals without the hassel of hiring as employees who would need documentation of their status.

Ok rant over ....time to head off to work ...probably to fix something that was framed improperly...not level/plumb, out of square, crooked, wrong measurement...

Any company that subcontracts to a group without receiving insurance certificates is out of their mind. We hired a site company to dig some ground grids for us. We requested a cert. got one and the guy never paid the bill. Fast forward 6 months. We get an insurance audit. 10,000 dollars later we cover his ass on five or six projects he did for us under a certificate that was no good.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I said created not used. Many seem to want to give the impression that in these cities you're immune from deportation which simply isn't true. Some cities are more forgiving than others but they all work with the Feds.

Simple question, why do so many cities employ some sort of sanctuary policy unless it's effective at fighting crime?

Spence, have you ever been objective for 5 consecutive seconds?

You are correct when you say there's a disconnect between federal and local laws. And do you know, in our republic, which law trumps which, in those situations? It's pretty explicit, it's in the supremacy clause. Not a lot of ambiguity.

I have never once heard anyone say that sanctuary cities are set up to fight crime.

In this case, ICE told the authorities in San Francisco to notify them when they let the illegal alien go. ICE would have deported him, for the 7th time. San Francisco, being an enlightened, compassionate place (unlike the rest of the nation) specifically chose to ignore ICE's request, and that decision cost this girl, by all accounts a superb American, her life. And as enlightened as those city leaders are, they sure have been mum on this subject. Not a lot of courage there.

If you think it's good policy to let illegal aliens with multiple felonies, to escape the grip of ICE, you are a liberal. If you think these people should be subject to our duly constituted laws, you are not a liberal. The air on your side of the aisle, is getting pretty funky, Spence.

How the hell did we (and by 'we', I mean liberals) get to the point, where it's controversial to say that guy like this needs to get kicked out, and not let back in? This is not a complicated issue, this should be low-hanging fruit. But nope.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I think it's more effective at creating democrat votes than preventing crime.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Give that man a cigar!

Spence, it has nothing to do with fighting crime. It has to do with towing the liberal line.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You are correct when you say there's a disconnect between federal and local laws. And do you know, in our republic, which law trumps which, in those situations? It's pretty explicit, it's in the supremacy clause. Not a lot of ambiguity.

Jim, the ICE detainer is a violation of the 4th Amendment unless there's a Federal arrest warrant.

I have never once heard anyone say that sanctuary cities are set up to fight crime.

I didn't say set up, I said why would communities do it if it wasn't.

This has been studied quite a bit and a lot of police seem to have a very positive perspective on sanctuary policies. I used that Google thing JohnR seems so fond of and found some interesting results:

http://www.policefoundation.org/cont...f-local-police

http://www.policylink.org/sites/defa...PORT_FINAL.PDF

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/spe...-united-states

In this case, ICE told the authorities in San Francisco to notify them when they let the illegal alien go. ICE would have deported him, for the 7th time. San Francisco, being an enlightened, compassionate place (unlike the rest of the nation) specifically chose to ignore ICE's request, and that decision cost this girl, by all accounts a superb American, her life. And as enlightened as those city leaders are, they sure have been mum on this subject. Not a lot of courage there.

When the local prosecutor failed to charge him for his outstanding drug charge the authorities had no legal justification to hold him.

It's a sad case for sure, but if anything is another reason for immigration reform.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, the ICE detainer is a violation of the 4th Amendment unless there's a Federal arrest warrant.


.

Do illegals get Constitutional protections? That's a sincere question. I would have thought not...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I didn't say set up, I said why would communities do it if it wasn't.

.

Because one of the pillars of liberalism is that if one falls into a victim group (and currently, because Hispanics vote Democrat, they qualify) nothing they do is their fault. And for many liberals, defying the man, regardless of what the man is saying, is a badge of progressive honor. If you think that sounds stupid and crazy, I agree. But that's liberalism, at least on this issue. So what if a few superb Americans are sacrificed.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

When the local prosecutor failed to charge him for his outstanding drug charge the authorities had no legal justification to hold him.
.

Do you get any facts? He was deported after committing felonies here. As soon as he stepped foot back on American soil, he committed a crime, and ICE has the legal authority to detain him and ship his azz back.

Because the feds had a legal claim to him, they asked the local hippies officials to alert ICE if they let him go They weren't about to let this poor victim fall into the hands of the totalitarian folks at ICE, so they set him loose on that poor girl instead. Well done.

This is exactly why I say liberalism is a mental disorder. There is no rational reason to oppose the notion that illegals who commit felonies here, need to go. Build a one way, high speed train to Tierra Del Fuego.