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Old 01-08-2020, 05:50 PM   #1
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Simplified viewpoint I agree with

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ďAmericans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.Ē Ė James Madison.
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Old 01-08-2020, 05:52 PM   #2
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Thank you, DannoÖ.

And to be clear, Not my quote. I have not been to Iraq.

ďAmericans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.Ē Ė James Madison.
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Old 01-08-2020, 06:06 PM   #3
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Two quick thoughts.

1) we didnít kill two Iranian generals in Iraq
2) if Iran shouldnít be in Iraq why are we in Iraq
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Old 01-08-2020, 06:13 PM   #4
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Two quick thoughts.

1) we didnít kill two Iranian generals in Iraq
2) if Iran shouldnít be in Iraq why are we in Iraq
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I don't follow you on #1
As for #2, if we leave a void there now, the world is going to be waking up to ISIS atrocities again on a daily basis. Kind of stuck there until some other coalition members step up for a more equal share of the burden.

ďAmericans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.Ē Ė James Madison.
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Old 01-08-2020, 06:15 PM   #5
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I don't follow you on #1
As for #2, if we leave a void there now, the world is going to be waking up to ISIS atrocities again on a daily basis. Kind of stuck there until some other coalition members step up for a more equal share of the burden.
As well as that, I believe it is entirely legitimate to have an embassy in Iraq.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:00 PM   #6
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Concerning to hear the negative feedback from the briefing today by BOTH sides, which on the surface seems to indicate history may be repeating. Manipulating or misinterpretation of intel took us into the Iraq war in the first place and this appears possibly to be similar. Frankly I donít regret that dirt bag was taken out, but if it were done for a political benefit to Trump, whether itís distraction for the impeachment or whether hawks have gotten his ear, our service men and women shouldnít be pawns in someoneís political chess game.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:03 PM   #7
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again with the Hate excuse,, the embassy was never touched the outer wall was attacked AKA Green zone , but the fear of benghazi is to much .. Odd the base allows Iran to step over his line in the sand without a peep?

yes Iran supplied weapons that killed Americans And america provided weapons that killed syrians (tow missiles) will Russia Target Americans for Javelin Missiles that kill their Troops in ukraine .... not everything can be judged good or evil for a country's convenience

the issue is not if the Iranian general deserved to die , the issue for me is the US shifting to assassination as a policy

And the BS lie that money from the Iran nuke deal bankrolled these operations and new missiles... Are more lies from an administration who already has a credibility problem , everywhere in the world except in his base ..

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Old 01-08-2020, 07:25 PM   #8
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again with the Hate excuse,, the embassy was never touched the outer wall was attacked AKA Green zone , but the fear of benghazi is to much .. Odd the base allows Iran to step over his line in the sand without a peep?

yes Iran supplied weapons that killed Americans And america provided weapons that killed syrians (tow missiles) will Russia Target Americans for Javelin Missiles that kill their Troops in ukraine .... not everything can be judged good or evil for a country's convenience

the issue is not if the Iranian general deserved to die , the issue for me is the US shifting to assassination as a policy

And the BS lie that money from the Iran nuke deal bankrolled these operations and new missiles... Are more lies from an administration who already has a credibility problem , everywhere in the world except in his base ..
this kind of targeted assassination has been accepted practice for awhile in certain situations. did you express this concern when Bin Laden was assassinated? Or is it only concerning when trump
does it?
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:08 PM   #9
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this kind of targeted assassination has been accepted practice for awhile in certain situations. did you express this concern when Bin Laden was assassinated? Or is it only concerning when trump
does it?
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There are a number of differences between OBL and a high ranking Iranian military commander with vastly different geopolitical ramifications.


I have zero issues that he deserved to be taken out for a career of evil. Mike Lee at least for the R's was that the briefing today was unconvincing for the true imminent threat. (I would point out that many of the Dems felt the same but their credibility is lacking with some here)

My concern, is that Trump is making these decisions in a very small vacuum with little thought for ramifications. I seriously doubt he discussed this with allies in the region and beyond. I don't doubt that Obama discussed the short and long-term ramifications of taking out OBL in great detail well ahead of taking him out.

Maybe I am wrong but based on Trump's apparent flippant approach to foreign policy, I think he got VERY lucky that this didn't escalate rapidly.
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"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:09 PM   #10
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And the BS lie that money from the Iran nuke deal bankrolled these operations and new missiles... Are more lies from an administration who already has a credibility problem , everywhere in the world except in his base ..
He canít help himself the lies are all he knows, I guess his staff didnít advise him those really werenít US dollars, but frozen Iran funds freed up after the treaty. History and facts have never been his strong suit.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:17 PM   #11
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There are a number of differences between OBL and a high ranking Iranian military commander with vastly different geopolitical ramifications.


I have zero issues that he deserved to be taken out for a career of evil. Mike Lee at least for the R's was that the briefing today was unconvincing for the true imminent threat. (I would point out that many of the Dems felt the same but their credibility is lacking with some here)

My concern, is that Trump is making these decisions in a very small vacuum with little thought for ramifications. I seriously doubt he discussed this with allies in the region and beyond. I don't doubt that Obama discussed the short and long-term ramifications of taking out OBL in great detail well ahead of taking him out.

Maybe I am wrong but based on Trump's apparent flippant approach to foreign policy, I think he got VERY lucky that this didn't escalate rapidly.
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if Trump was flippant in this case, he got very lucky, because it was a big win. We killed someone begging to be killed, and paid no significant price. For a guy who is supposedly so stupid and such a fraudulent con artist, Trump sure scores some impressive victories now and then.

ďflippantĒ would have been bombing the sh*t out of the sites where the missiles came from last night.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:35 PM   #12
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Two quick thoughts.

1) we didnít kill two Iranian generals in Iraq
2) if Iran shouldnít be in Iraq why are we in Iraq
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Would it make you feel better if he said one general and one terrorist leader.

Not to late for you to get that sympathy card in the mail.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:04 PM   #13
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this kind of targeted assassination has been accepted practice for awhile in certain situations. did you express this concern when Bin Laden was assassinated? Or is it only concerning when trump
does it?
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This is the issue you and many others think . bin laden and the General are some how the same .. they are not no matter how Trump and administration wish to present the killings are the same

Bin laden was catch or kill. As was Al baghdadi , (both stateless ) A fire fight is not an assasination
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:52 PM   #14
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Bin Laden and Al Baghdadi were Sunni's and would oppose General S within the region, but would be allies against infidel's (non-muslims) when the reason would benefit both.

One was a Shia Iranian General responsible for supporting proxy Shia militias in Syria, Iran, etc - aka Quds. The other an Iraqi Shia Militia Commander responsible for suppressing Sunni's and Kurds in Iraq (the ones that are protesting current Iraqi government, and the ones that did not vote in Parliament for for the removal of US military presence).

Iran's Shias would like total control of Iraq and the rest of the Middle East (meaning submission to Shia's tenets), then the rest of humanity. The Sunni's (ISIS, ISIL) would like the same control (meaning submission to Sunni tenets). The fighting Muslim's believe they benefit from victory in life (spoils of war), or in death where great rewards await them in their heaven. In Jihad, they win either way. This Islamic ideology seems very poisoness from a western logical and spiritual point of view - but Islam is a monotheistic ideology and arguments to the contrary are not considered by devout Muslims.

Is there strategic interest for the west in the Middle East? There always has been, and likely will be for a long time. I would hope our media would smarten up and pick up this religious context, along with the Kurd's and Armenian's situation, also persecuted by Muslim based governments.

Sorry to bore you all... but this context overlays all that is happening in the Middle east. I don't remember learning about this stuff in History or Social Studies in High School...
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:55 AM   #15
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We should give them $ every time we blow up their criminal masterminds. Joe Biden already said he will offer Iran reparations. These libs are enabling the executioner.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:18 AM   #16
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Mean while Puerto Ricans
Still have no power..

So Trump risk war over 1 American contractors death

But Trump barely sees PR as Americans at all


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Old 01-09-2020, 09:28 AM   #17
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This is the issue you and many others think . bin laden and the General are some how the same .. they are not no matter how Trump and administration wish to present the killings are the same

Bin laden was catch or kill. As was Al baghdadi , (both stateless ) A fire fight is not an assasination
i didnít say they were the same. i said both were targeted for, I guess, assassination.

You have a point about Bin Laden being catch or kill, thatís a fair point.

So can we assume
your problem is using drones to kill people without giving them
a chance to surrender? Because Obama did that a lot, a whole
lot, including one strike
targeting an american citizen who had joined the jihad.

so iíll ask again, is it only problematic for you when trump fires missiles at people? i donít think you complained when obama did it.

Either itís ok or itís not. But the answer of whether or not itís ok, shouldnít depend on whether or not you happen to like the current potus. Right?
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:46 AM   #18
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Mean while Puerto Ricans
Still have no power..

So Trump risk war over 1 American contractors death

But Trump barely sees PR as Americans at all


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Considering that last time he gave them money it was stolen by their local politicians who can blame him? The left loves to portray Trump unfavorably to the point where uninformed people repeat the same old tired misinformation. Corruption on that island is out of control,especially amongst the politicians. They will get their aid again,hopefully with restrictions to prevent Clinton style plundering.
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PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:47 AM   #19
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I don't think a single person on this board or in this country feels that guy didn't deserve to be taken out. The problem as I see it is Trumps reckless strategy in the middle east. This problem started with the withdrawal from the treaty, but he has been making questionable moves all along, Syria being a prime example. The problems he creates require a solution involving our allies, oh what we have treated them like idiots and this is when his isolationist policy backfires in his face.
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:20 AM   #20
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This problem started with the withdrawal from the treaty
no it didn't
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:41 AM   #21
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no it didn't
everything was peachy with Iran until Orange Man nullified the treaty. even the jews and arabs were having block parties together until Trump came along.
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:49 AM   #22
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Iran has been at it forever, not what I meant and tell me you both didn't understand it, or do I need to use bold font or blue font. The escalation of hostilities by Iran started after the withdrawal. Do you think the drone attack, the ship harassment or more importantly the attack on the Saudia oil production would have happened had we not withdrawn and tightened sanctions.
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:02 PM   #23
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Iran has been at it forever.....


Do you think the drone attack, the ship harassment or more importantly the attack on the Saudia oil production would have happened had we not withdrawn and tightened sanctions.
I think you answered your own question
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:07 PM   #24
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Do you think the drone attack, the ship harassment or more importantly the attack on the Saudia oil production would have happened had we not withdrawn and tightened sanctions.
yes.

did this Soleimani guy retire from killing westerners, after obama
signed that treaty? because iíve never heard anyone claim that. you seem to be saying iran acted
like a loyal ally while the treaty was in place.
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Old 01-09-2020, 01:22 PM   #25
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i didnít say they were the same. i said both were targeted for, I guess, assassination.

You have a point about Bin Laden being catch or kill, thatís a fair point.

So can we assume
your problem is using drones to kill people without giving them
a chance to surrender? Because Obama did that a lot, a whole
lot, including one strike
targeting an american citizen who had joined the jihad.

so iíll ask again, is it only problematic for you when trump fires missiles at people? i donít think you complained when obama did it.

Either itís ok or itís not. But the answer of whether or not itís ok, shouldnít depend on whether or not you happen to like the current potus. Right?
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Again you clearly refuse to see that targeting military targets Taliban commander or ISIS commanders who are stateless . And whom the international community see as rogue actors and legitimate targets .

And those who are part of a state an official. And 1 who was an elected in Iraqs parliament.. aka assasination

Terrorist is the new catch all ,, I am sorry actions conducted against foreign military targets by militants who wish us forces out of their countries, is not Terrorism, kill civilians shopping in a market or blow up a mosque or church that's Terrorism

Americans has been doing the proxy thing for decades but thas ok

TRUMPs pull out the international nuke deal. ( the right leaves that out all the time )
Backs iran in a corner, then people act surprised when they push back

And the current talking point from the White House
And this Lee guy took exception

It is not acceptable for officials within the executive branch of government -- I don't care whether they are with the CIA, with the Department of Defense, or otherwise -- to come in and tell us that we can't debate and discuss the appropriateness of military intervention against Iran," said Lee.

Hes right only authoritarian government see such debate as wrong
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Old 01-09-2020, 02:17 PM   #26
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Again you clearly refuse to see that targeting military targets Taliban commander or ISIS commanders who are stateless . And whom the international community see as rogue actors and legitimate targets .

And those who are part of a state an official. And 1 who was an elected in Iraqs parliament.. aka assasination

Terrorist is the new catch all ,, I am sorry actions conducted against foreign military targets by militants who wish us forces out of their countries, is not Terrorism, kill civilians shopping in a market or blow up a mosque or church that's Terrorism

Americans has been doing the proxy thing for decades but thas ok

TRUMPs pull out the international nuke deal. ( the right leaves that out all the time )
Backs iran in a corner, then people act surprised when they push back

And the current talking point from the White House
And this Lee guy took exception

It is not acceptable for officials within the executive branch of government -- I don't care whether they are with the CIA, with the Department of Defense, or otherwise -- to come in and tell us that we can't debate and discuss the appropriateness of military intervention against Iran," said Lee.

Hes right only authoritarian government see such debate as wrong
OK, so it's OK to bomb actual terrorists, but not those affiliated with a nation state.

"Terrorist is the new catch all ,, I am sorry actions conducted against foreign military targets by militants who wish us forces out of their countries, is not Terrorism, kill civilians shopping in a market or blow up a mosque or church that's Terrorism "

OK. SO what do you call it, when in 2011 the Obama administration uncovered a plot by Soleimani to hire Mexican drug cartels, to plant a bomb in a Washington DC restaurant, with the goal of assassinating the Saudi ambassador to the US? Is that a legitimate act of a sovereign nation-state, or is that an act of terror? Look it up, because that happened, was called Operation Red Coalition, I think. But it happened. That's not the act of a terrorist?

You're saying he wasn't a terrorist because he was in the employ of the nation of Iran?

I don't know that defining someone as a terrorist is an exact, precise science. There can be judgment and disagreement. But you're in a distinct minority if you feel this guy wasn't a terrorist.

I agree with you that targeting terrorists is nit the same as targeting legitimate military officials of another sovereign nation. Most people feel Soleimini was both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_a...ssination_plot
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Old 01-09-2020, 02:48 PM   #27
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it's fun watching libs defend the indefensible
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Old 01-09-2020, 02:59 PM   #28
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it's fun watching libs defend the indefensible
trump has goaded them
into defending MS-13, and defending Iran.

He throws a rake on the lawn, they all fight each other to be able to step on it. and they never learn.
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:04 PM   #29
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OK, so it's OK to bomb actual terrorists, but not those affiliated with a nation state.

"Terrorist is the new catch all ,, I am sorry actions conducted against foreign military targets by militants who wish us forces out of their countries, is not Terrorism, kill civilians shopping in a market or blow up a mosque or church that's Terrorism "

OK. SO what do you call it, when in 2011 the Obama administration uncovered a plot by Soleimani to hire Mexican drug cartels, to plant a bomb in a Washington DC restaurant, with the goal of assassinating the Saudi ambassador to the US? Is that a legitimate act of a sovereign nation-state, or is that an act of terror? Look it up, because that happened, was called Operation Red Coalition, I think. But it happened. That's not the act of a terrorist?

You're saying he wasn't a terrorist because he was in the employ of the nation of Iran?

I don't know that defining someone as a terrorist is an exact, precise science. There can be judgment and disagreement. But you're in a distinct minority if you feel this guy wasn't a terrorist.

I agree with you that targeting terrorists is nit the same as targeting legitimate military officials of another sovereign nation. Most people feel Soleimini was both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_a...ssination_plot
North Atlantic Treaty Organization

NATO defines terrorism in the AAP-06 NATO Glossary of Terms and Definitions, Edition 2019 as "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence, instilling fear and terror, against individuals or property in an attempt to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, or to gain control over a population, to achieve political, religious or ideological objectives". [50]

Nowhere does it say stateless.
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:16 PM   #30
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yes.

did this Soleimani guy retire from killing westerners, after obama
signed that treaty? because iíve never heard anyone claim that. you seem to be saying iran acted
like a loyal ally while the treaty was in place.
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I seriously doubt the level of hostility between the treaty being signed and Trump pulling out is anywhere even close to what has happened since, good luck trying to make that case. But hey, it's what the coolaid drinking right is believing, maybe you can tell that to all the dead since this escalated. It now appears the jet was shot down by Iran, so the head count is just getting bigger, it won't be long before American dead are added to this.
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