OBAMA gets TOUGH

[JohnnyD]

One more thing...

The estimated increased cost to provide the higher MPG is estimated at $1500/vehicle.

Doing some of my own number crunching:

Assuming those costs are passed directly onto the consumer and the taking the Federal Estimate of 15,000 miles traveled/year, the added costs will be recouped within 3-4 years of ownership with an average pump price of $3/gallon (a figure that is extremely conservative for 6 years from now).

For someone like me that drives 20,000+ miles/year, I'd be looking at a break even point of under 3 years of ownership.

[fishbones]

All right, JD. When I used the word "bullying", it was hyperbole. Maybe not the right choice of words, but I don't claim to be as intelligent as most of the smarty pants here who always choose the right words. The tax break is an "incentive", which is a good thing. But, I don't want to be punished if I choose to buy a vehicle that doesn't qualify for the incentive. If the tax money is coming from people who don't buy the hybrids, it doesn't seem very fair. Now I don't know where this money for the tax breaks is coming from, so my point may be mute. But, if the government is getting the money for the tax breaks through taxes, everyone is paying into it. In that case, I feel bullied that the government is taking my money and giving it to someone else based on the choice they make when buying a car.

That being the case, I'm all for requiring better mileage in auto's. Anything that decreases the use of oil should bring the prices down based on supply and demand. I even think offering the tax incentives for hybrids is a great idea as long as the money isn't coming from my taxes.

[JohnnyD]

Gotcha. And don't sell yourself short, you have me bashing my head against the wall sometimes trying to think of a suitable rebuttal to some of your comments. Not to mention you're one of the few to realize I'm not quite as liberal as many think.

Given that, my understanding with tax incentives (and this area is definitely not a strong source for me) is that the government isn't "paying out" so they don't have to find a source for the money. It's a matter of not as much in taxes being paid into the system, just as if a cheaper car was purchased. It helps the consumer offset the additional cost and government collects almost the same in taxes as if they purchased the cheaper car.

The government has been known to provide these incentives as a way of helping bring new technology to light and help the consumer

[RIJIMMY]

just curious, what else can the money be coming from other than your taxes?
Flea Market at the Smithsonian?

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

just curious, what else can the money be coming from other than your taxes?
Flea Market at the Smithsonian?

I'll buy Fonzie's leather jacket.

[RIJIMMY]

If Liberace's is there I'm sure Spence will bid on it

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

just curious, what else can the money be coming from other than your taxes?
Flea Market at the Smithsonian?

If people won't buy a hybrid because of the increased costs, the government would not be getting the taxes anyway. They would only be able to collect the lesser taxes paid on a cheaper car.

Once consumers don't need the added incentive to purchase hybrid (because most do come with sacrifices in performance) and massive prices at the pump are the incentive, then the government can remove the tax rebate.

In both cases - buying a hybrid or buying a cheaper car, the collected taxes to the government are similar.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

If people won't buy a hybrid because of the increased costs, the government would be getting the taxes anyway. They would only be able to collect the lesser taxes paid on a cheaper car.

Once consumers don't need the added incentive to purchase hybrid (because most do come with sacrifices in performance) and massive prices at the pump are the incentive, then the government can remove the tax rebate.

In both cases - buying a hybrid or buying a cheaper car, the collected taxes to the government are similar.

Johnny, are you saing that the people who buy hybrids are going to be paying for their own tax rebate?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Johnny, are you saing that the people who buy hybrids are going to be paying for their own tax rebate?

Essentially, yes.

People are going to pay more in taxes when they purchase a hybrid due to its increased costs over a non-hybrid, then because of the tax incentive, they'll receive a little bit more money back come Tax Day.

This is going with our previous assumption that the consumer would not buy a hybrid because of the increased Price Tag.

**I edited my post that you quoted. It should have said "The government would *not* be getting the taxes anyway."

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

If Liberace's is there I'm sure Spence will bid on it

No, but we're talking about Julia Child's copper pots and pans I'd be all over it

And FB, it's "moot".

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

No, but we're talking about Julia Child's copper pots and pans I'd be all over it

And FB, it's "moot".

-spence

Thanks for correcting me, Liberace.

[BigJim]

I have a good plan! How about a president who ACTUALLY means it when he pledges allegiance to our country flag and constitution and get us out of this bureaucratic, new world order nightmare. Then, maybe they could restore our constitution and civil liberties that our founding fathers fought and died for. Wow!!!! What a far out vision!!! What was this "right wing radical" thinking?