Fox News Tells It Like It Is

[lamigsb1]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but the Term Obamacare really should be renamed to Obamaswalloewdcare that way the uneducated American people could actually understand that the affordable health act is just a shadow of the single payer system that was wanted by the president. What we know as obamacare is a poorly designed law which was negotiated by both parties, passed both the house and the senate and has been signed into law. The shutdown is the equivalent of the starting pitcher leaving with the only game ball after the coach pulls him in the top of the 8th.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by lamigsb1

Forgive me if I'm wrong but the Term Obamacare really should be renamed to Obamaswalloewdcare that way the uneducated American people could actually understand that the affordable health act is just a shadow of the single payer system that was wanted by the president. What we know as obamacare is a poorly designed law which was negotiated by both parties, passed both the house and the senate and has been signed into law. The shutdown is the equivalent of the starting pitcher leaving with the only game ball after the coach pulls him in the top of the 8th.
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Negotiated by both parties ? That's not how I remember it
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[lamigsb1]

Originally Posted by buckman

Negotiated by both parties ? That's not how I remember it
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If it wasn't we have a single payer health care system now.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by lamigsb1

The shutdown is the equivalent of the starting pitcher leaving with the only game ball after the coach pulls him in the top of the 8th.
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The White House offered a one-year amnesty to companies. Meaning, companies could sign up for Obamacare if they wished to, but they would not be penalized for not signing up.

The GOP is asking that individuals get the same break. How is that unfair, particularly in light of the fact, the irrefutable fact, that most people cannot enroll even if they try to, because the system doesn't work? Are you OK with getting fined, because the administration couldn't connect a server?

And I thought liberals liked to get worked up about not putting the interests of corporations above those of the individual? Isn't that what the whole Occupy Wall Street movement was about? All the liberals supported them. Seems to me, that what the GOP is asking for, is exactly in line with the agenda of the Occupy Wall Street (that, and they wanted to be able to poop in the park, and to sack/pillage all surrounding businesses like the Vikings, but I digress).

It takes two to shut down. All Obama had to do, was be willing to give individuals the same break he was giving to Big Business. I would have thought Obama was OK with that notion.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It takes two to shut down.

Funny, the majority of the population doesn't feel that way and is blaming the Repubs. much more than the Dems. Is extortion a way to negotiate?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Funny, the majority of the population doesn't feel that way and is blaming the Repubs. much more than the Dems. Is extortion a way to negotiate?

When your doing the right thing , you don't worry about what's in it for you.
Explain your last comment ? I'm confused
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Funny, the majority of the population doesn't feel that way and is blaming the Repubs. much more than the Dems. Is extortion a way to negotiate?

Paul, you are correct that polls show that most blame the GOP. That doesn't make me wrong, when I say that (1) what the GOP is asking for, is not unreasonable, and that (2) Obama c ould have avoided the shutdown by agreeing to their reasonable demands.

Paul, a simple question...do YOU think it's unreasonable for the GOP to ask that Obama give the same break to individuals that he is giving to companies, especially since individuals cannot sign up even if they wanted to? Yes or no?

"Is extortion a way to negotiate?"

Funny. When the Wisconsin legialature was going to reduce union benefits, and all the Dems in the state senate fled the state to halt the vote, I don't recall all this backlash against them. In Texas, when that Democratic state rep fillibustered for 24 hours to prevent an anti-abortion bill, she was hailed as a hero. When democrate are in the minority, I keep heraing that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". When a black Democrat is in the white house, dissent is racist and extortion. IS that what you're saying?

I don't like the shutdown. I particularly don't like it when our petty, vindictive President goes to unimaginable lengths to make it as painful as possible for WWII vets and families of those killed in action. If you're OK with Obama's actions there, that's your right. But those actions are a betrayal of the most basic duties of his office. He's a disgrace.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Is extortion a way to negotiate?"

Funny. When the Wisconsin legialature was going to reduce union benefits, and all the Dems in the state senate fled the state to halt the vote, I don't recall all this backlash against them.There was plenty of backlash. I'm sure you even started threads about it. In Texas, when that Democratic state rep fillibustered for 24 hours to prevent an anti-abortion bill, she was hailed as a hero. so filibustering is the same as saying if you don't do everything we like, we'll close down the government ?When democrate are in the minority, I keep heraing that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". No one has said people don't have the right to dissent - it is the whiney, unreasonablness and crying that is going on that is turning people against the Repubs. in general and the TP in particular. When a black Democrat is in the white house, dissent is racist and extortion. IS that what you're saying?Who, other than you said it was racism? I'm sure some of the complaining of the Pres. has it's basis in racism but since that is difficult to prove, I don't recall people saying that. Do you have any links to any mainstream press articles calling it racism? I know that is thrown around a lot here, yet I don't see anyone actually saying it is b/c of racism. I do know that if there is crime committed against a white person by a black person, or if someone posts something about A. Sharpton/J. Jackson it brings people out of the woodwork who hardly ever post here.

I don't like the shutdown. I particularly don't like it when our petty, vindictive President goes to unimaginable lengths to make it as painful as possible for WWII vets and families of those killed in action. If you're OK with Obama's actions there, that's your right. But those actions are a betrayal of the most basic duties of his office. He's a disgrace.

So you want to pick and choose what should stay open or what aspects of the govern. should stay in force? Did the Pres. specifically do something to prevent the benefits paid to those families or are they not being paid bc of the lack of action of Repub. lead House?

[Raven]

i have ALIEN DNA

from those in the star system Sirius

therefore i am considered multi species human/alien

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So you want to pick and choose what should stay open or what aspects of the govern. should stay in force? Did the Pres. specifically do something to prevent the benefits paid to those families or are they not being paid bc of the lack of action of Repub. lead House?

"Did the Pres. specifically do something to prevent the benefits paid"

Yes, he did. He chose not to sign an Executive Order to demand those payments be made. That was within his authority to do, and he chose not to do it. It's unbelievably cruel, an unthinkable betrayal.

"There was plenty of backlash. I'm sure you even started threads about it"

PaulS, here is my point, and read slowly because it's a valid point...there was no backlash from your side. There is only backlash when conservatives act like brats.

Paul, I answered your points. You, on the other hand, completely dodged a very simple yes or no question that I asked. So I'll ask it again. Please show me the same courtesy that I showed you, and answer my question, which is as follows...

do YOU think it's unreasonable for the GOP to ask that Obama give the same break to individuals that he is giving to companies, especially since individuals cannot sign up even if they wanted to? Yes or no?

"Who, other than you said it was racism?"

OK Paul. Now you are saying that no one claims that those who oppose Obama, do so because of racism? No one has said that? No one in Washington, no one in the media, not Jimmy Carter? No one has called the Tea Party racist? Obama himself, didn't say that the McCain campaign was going to try and make people afraid of the fact that he's black? Obama didn't say that?

Google it yourself if you can't be bothered to answer one yes/no question that I asked...

[Jim in CT]

Paul, here is what then-canbdidate Obam asaid about John McCain in 2008...

"We know what kind of campaign they’re going to run,” said the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. “They’re going to try to make you afraid. They’re going to try to make you afraid of me. ‘He’s young and inexperienced and he’s got a funny name. And did I mention he’s black?’"

McCain is a decent guy, a war hero who made unthinkable sacrifices for his country. He was generous enough to adopt a BLACK GIRL FROM A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, and your hero said McCain was a racist.

When McCain didn't run a racist campaign, did Obama apologize? Did he admit he was wrong? Nope.

Have fun with that...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Did the Pres. specifically do something to prevent the benefits paid"

Yes, he did. He chose not to sign an Executive Order to demand those payments be made. That was within his authority to do, and he chose not to do it. It's unbelievably cruel, an unthinkable betrayal.
So again, you want to pick and choose what should stay open - it was unbelievably cruel, an unthinkable betrayal that the TP choose to allow that vets. families not to be paid their benefits. The TP is a disgrace. I can think a lot of things both sides would have like to continue with.
"There was plenty of backlash. I'm sure you even started threads about it"

PaulS, here is my point, and read slowly because it's a valid point...there was no backlash from your side. There is only backlash when conservatives act like brats.So you want backlash from liberals when liberals acts like brats? Where is the conservative backlast now that conservatives are acting like brats? Read that again slowly so you understand.

Paul, I answered your points. You, on the other hand, completely dodged a very simple yes or no question that I asked. So I'll ask it again. Please show me the same courtesy that I showed you, and answer my question, which is as follows...

do YOU think it's unreasonable for the GOP to ask that Obama give the same break to individuals that he is giving to companies, especially since individuals cannot sign up even if they wanted to? Yes or no?They can ask for anything they want. Why wasn't the individual mandate postponed? Your an actuary so you should be able to figure it out. I'm surprised you aren't happy that he postponed part of it. Or is it that you'll complain about anything that he does?

"Who, other than you said it was racism?"

OK Paul. Now you are saying that no one claims that those who oppose Obama, do so because of racism? Who brought up racism in this thread? No one has said that? No one in Washington, no one in the media, not Jimmy Carter? No one has called the Tea Party racist? Weren't there many racist posters early on until the TP leadership types told people to tone it down? Don't a large % still believe he is Muslim? But this talk of racism is getting off track since I haven't seen anyone state the budget fight was a results of racism other you here. Obama himself, didn't say that the McCain campaign was going to try and make people afraid of the fact that he's black? Obama didn't say that?

Google it yourself if you can't be bothered to answer one yes/no question that I asked...

NM

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I did. You said they acould ask for anythiing they want. That didn't even come close to answering the question that was asked. I didn't ask you if the GOP had the authority to ask. My question was whether or not their request was reasonable?

Do you not see the difference?

See below for what you originally asked. You didn't ask if their request was reasonable, you asked if it is "unreasonable for the GOP to ask ......" If you had asked that, I would have told you that w/o the individual mandate, the whole thing falls apart. Only a small amount of businesses where impacted by the postponement.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Paul, a simple question...do YOU think it's unreasonable for the GOP to ask that Obama give the same break to individuals that he is giving to companies, especially since individuals cannot sign up even if they wanted to? Yes or no?