this mosque thing is blowin up for Barry

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Precisely--he's a COMIC. His video is funny. It is not to the point and has false references.

Just because you're a comic shouldn't forbid making a statement, and the use of humor doesn't mean your point is any less valid. In the end it's simply a matter of the point ringing true.

This is quite different than what you usually get on Rush or Beck IMHO. They are very quick prey on stereotypes, fear, manipulation (in the name of argument) and gross insensitivity often at the expense of others (Club Gitmo anyone?). Are Rush and Beck so successful because of their message or because they titillate? I'd argue it's really more of the latter.

Rush of course laughs it up as part of his product, but his listeners seem to take him oddly seriously. As a note, I listened to Rush every day for years. Certainly there's bias everywhere, but there's also quality...

Stewart didn't "attack" FOX for flip flopping (although I do think Laura Ingram did), the bigger issue he was highlighting was that this story has been around for a while and wasn't a big deal...until what changed?

That FOX took it on the chin simply says something about the kind of reckless comments that frequent the programming.

Additionally, I'm not sure you can charge he's taken anything out of context...unless you know the context. Does Stewart have a history of fabrication? I didn't think so.

As for Heston (now understanding your point) and the idea the NRA analogy is invalid...I don't agree. There is a direct link between NRA members and the Columbine killers...they both own(ed) guns...that's exactly the point.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Just because you're a comic shouldn't forbid making a statement, and the use of humor doesn't mean your point is any less valid. In the end it's simply a matter of the point ringing true.


Who's forbidding? I didn't say using humor is less valid. Validity requires more than "ringing" true.

This is quite different than what you usually get on Rush or Beck IMHO. They are very quick prey on stereotypes, fear, manipulation (in the name of argument) and gross insensitivity often at the expense of others (Club Gitmo anyone?). Are Rush and Beck so successful because of their message or because they titillate? I'd argue it's really more of the latter.


Then argue. So far all you have done is say or accuse. You give opinions.

Rush of course laughs it up as part of his product, but his listeners seem to take him oddly seriously. As a note, I listened to Rush every day for years. Certainly there's bias everywhere, but there's also quality...

So your opinion is that Stewart's show has quality (whatever that is) and Rush's show doesn't. whoopee.

Stewart didn't "attack" FOX for flip flopping (although I do think Laura Ingram did), the bigger issue he was highlighting was that this story has been around for a while and wasn't a big deal...until what changed?

You put "attack" in quotes. Who are you quoting? What changed is that it became a big deal. You're certainly implying that it became so because of Fox. So if Fox would not report the groundswell of opinion, or if some commentators on Fox after reflection would not have an opionion on the matter, then there would be no controversy. Ignorance is bliss.

That FOX took it on the chin simply says something about the kind of reckless comments that frequent the programming.

Is this argument or insinuation?

Additionally, I'm not sure you can charge he's taken anything out of context...unless you know the context. Does Stewart have a history of fabrication? I didn't think so.

Don't know what you're referring to here.

As for Heston (now understanding your point) and the idea the NRA analogy is invalid...I don't agree. There is a direct link between NRA members and the Columbine killers...they both own(ed) guns...that's exactly the point.
-spence

No. The valid analogy was to the NRA's constitutional right and the Muslims constitutional right. As for the the analogy between the NRA members and the Columbine killers both owning guns, it stops there. There is no connection between their owning guns and their use of those guns. The direct links between NRA members and the Columbine psychos and the rest of us is legion. We all eat, sleep, hopefully love, walk, drive, think, have opinions, likes, dislikes, and on and on . . . None of these, including owning guns (most gun owners are not NRA members) are a direct link to the psychotic act of the Columbine killers. The analogy would have been valid if the killers had specificaly stated that they killed in the name of the NRA against those who were against the NRA and its mission.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

There is no connection between their owning guns and their use of those guns.

That is exactly the point.

As for arguments vs opinions, I can go drub up references that have helped form my opinions to construct a more rounded argument, but I'm not sure it's worth the time. In the middle of that post my wife blessed me with a 14 day old son, or well, at least she handed him to me

Perhaps quality is the wrong word, as Rush's show is very high quality in a perverted sort of way.

I never implied it became a big deal because of FOX, simply that the rhetoric used on the network isn't seen on other cable networks, at least that I see.

Context refers to the snippets in the video that you said were taken out of context.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

That is exactly the point.

First you say "the Heston remarks had nothing to do with the NRA. It was about letting the actions of a few dictate your policy toward the many." Then you say "there is a direct link between NRA members and the Columbine killers . . . they both own(ed) guns . . ." Well if the direct link is that they both owned guns and that it is about letting the actions of a few dictate your policy toward the many, isn't that a little too universal? The only link is owning guns? Who are the many and the few? Gun owners of the world? Law enforcement, criminals, military, hunters, citizens defending themselves from columbine types? Shouldn't there be something more substantial linking NRA members with the Columbine killers, such as the Columbine killers actually being NRA members (so it would be about the "actions of a few" NRA members "dict[ating] your policy toward the many" NRA members)--that is, if your using the Heston analogy to dissuade you from what Stewart considered being a valid point--sensitivity to the meaning of the mosque's location? Didn't that meaning involve members of the religion building the mosque killing the 9/11 victims in the name of that religion?

As for arguments vs opinions, I can go drub up references that have helped form my opinions to construct a more rounded argument, but I'm not sure it's worth the time. In the middle of that post my wife blessed me with a 14 day old son, or well, at least she handed him to me

I'm sure you could, and it wouldn't be worth it.

Children are a blessing and worth more than all the words in the universe. Bless you and your wife for bringing that blessing into our world. I sincerely mean that.


Perhaps quality is the wrong word, as Rush's show is very high quality in a perverted sort of way.

You've called him a whore. You've said he pedals porn. Now it's perversion. Hmmm. You sure that you don't avoid him for fear of some deep seated, perverse sexual thing?

I never implied it became a big deal because of FOX, simply that the rhetoric used on the network isn't seen on other cable networks, at least that I see.

That's why FOX is different from the other networks. They all use the same rhetoric. FOX's rhetoric is different.

Context refers to the snippets in the video that you said were taken out of context.
-spence

I was referring to the Nazi tourette video, not the Stewart, when I referred to out of context snippets. Just a misunderstanding.

Get back to the little ones. This stuff is unimportant.