View from the outside

[zimmy]

"American society is broken in relation to Russia," she said in a Twitter direct message to Torshin in 2016. "This is now the dividing line of opinions, the crucial one in the election race. [The Republican Party] are for us, [the Democratic Party] against -- 50/50. Our move here is very important."

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/38660504/...ourt-documents

[Jim in CT]

the democrats are against russia? remember when obama mocked mitt romney for suggesting russia was a global threat? gimme an effing break.
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[Sea Dangles]

I don't remember O tossing 60 diplomats
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

the democrats are against russia? remember when obama mocked mitt romney for suggesting russia was a global threat? gimme an effing break.
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I'm trying to remember Dems ever being tough on Russia from the 70s on.

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I don't remember O tossing 60 diplomats
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He expelled 35, and closed down a Russian retreat Pioneer Point in eastern MD. All too little too late moves.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I don't remember O tossing 60 diplomats
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obama, at the behest of russia, removed missile defense from poland. trump has expelled diplomats, helped kill russian troops in syria, and put heavy weapons in the ukraine to protect them from russia, and he’s hammering germany for buying oil from russia.

trump has been far tougher on russia than obama ( hey mitt, the 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back, haw haw haw!!) ever was. trump is tough with russia, but seems awestruck with putin. he needs to get past that.
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

obama, at the behest of russia, removed missile defense from poland. trump has expelled diplomats, helped kill russian troops in syria, and put heavy weapons in the ukraine to protect them from russia, and he’s hammering germany for buying oil from russia.

trump has been far tougher on russia than obama ( hey mitt, the 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back, haw haw haw!!) ever was. trump is tough with russia, but seems awestruck with putin. he needs to get past that.
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Mostly true, plus the Trump Admin and Congress have been tougher on Russia. I am (and have been) genuinely concerned VVP has something on him.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

obama, at the behest of russia, removed missile defense from poland. trump has expelled diplomats, (as did the last POTUS ) helped kill russian troops in syria, ( no they were contractors we have them also not sure how Trump get credit for that?)and put heavy weapons in the ukraine to protect them from russia,( all optics they are all ready in the ukraine) and he’s hammering germany for buying oil from russia. ( he is upset because they wont buy US gas who he more than likely promised some one they would)

trump has been far tougher on russia than obama ( hey mitt, the 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back, haw haw haw!!) ever was. trump is tough with russia, but seems awestruck with putin. he needs to get past that.
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Administration officials confirmed that the State Department this month approved a commercial license authorizing the export of Model M107A1 Sniper Systems, ammunition, and associated parts and accessories to Ukraine, a sale valued at $41.5 million. These weapons address a specific vulnerability of Ukrainian forces fighting a Russian-backed separatist movement in two eastern provinces. There has been no approval to export the heavier weapons the Ukrainian government is asking for, such as Javelin antitank missiles.
then a a year later 03.01.18

The $47 million sale includes 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles and 37 launch units, the State Department said, again all optics the Russians are all ready at the door step 210 javelin wont stop or deter them if they want more .. dont be fooled

and all this some how absolves Trump from his current predicament

[Got Stripers]

Why is it it's always what about Obama and what about Clinton, doesn't anyone in Trump's camp have concerns about Trump's absolute denial of Russia interference and continued attempts to disrupt our democracy? I guess my IQ just isn't high enough or I'd understand why this crazy diplomacy of his is going to work in our benefit.

Living in the past and constantly blaming the past administrations is a lame excuse and exercise in futility. Does anyone really give a F what past administrations did or didn't do TODAY, sure at the time it might have frustrated you, but let's focus on the here and now. These are the days, these are the decisions, these are the actions that will determine our near future and our children's future; not what O or C did.

Trump's negotiations and diplomacy are more short termed than long term IMHO and more about his constant need for validation for being elected, his need to be liked by the heads of state of Russia, NK and China; while for whatever f'ed up reasons alienating the heads of state of our longest and most important allies.

I think whether you are left, right, black, white, red or yellow; most everyone just can't wait to see exactly what the Mueller investigation finally revels to the public. At a minimum, I'd love to see them get their hands on Trump's tax returns to see who has influence over him and his family.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Administration officials confirmed that the State Department this month approved a commercial license authorizing the export of Model M107A1 Sniper Systems, ammunition, and associated parts and accessories to Ukraine, a sale valued at $41.5 million. These weapons address a specific vulnerability of Ukrainian forces fighting a Russian-backed separatist movement in two eastern provinces. There has been no approval to export the heavier weapons the Ukrainian government is asking for, such as Javelin antitank missiles.
then a a year later 03.01.18

The $47 million sale includes 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles and 37 launch units, the State Department said, again all optics the Russians are all ready at the door step 210 javelin wont stop or deter them if they want more .. dont be fooled

and all this some how absolves Trump from his current predicament

nope, it doesn’t absolve trump. it just puts into a more accurate historical context, trumps actions. let’s not pretend like obama was ronald reagan and trump us declaring russia the victor in the cold war. obama mocked mitt romney for saying russia was a global threat, i can only wonder how hard you were laughing at obama’s joke, i wonder what a boob you thought romney was.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Administration officials confirmed that the State Department this month approved a commercial license authorizing the export of Model M107A1 Sniper Systems, ammunition, and associated parts and accessories to Ukraine, a sale valued at $41.5 million. These weapons address a specific vulnerability of Ukrainian forces fighting a Russian-backed separatist movement in two eastern provinces. There has been no approval to export the heavier weapons the Ukrainian government is asking for, such as Javelin antitank missiles.
then a a year later 03.01.18

The $47 million sale includes 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles and 37 launch units, the State Department said, again all optics the Russians are all ready at the door step 210 javelin wont stop or deter them if they want more .. dont be fooled

and all this some how absolves Trump from his current predicament

nope, it doesn’t absolve trump. it just puts into a more accurate historical context, trumps actions. let’s not pretend like obama was ronald reagan and trump us declaring russia the victor in the cold war. obama mocked mitt romney for saying rvussia was a global threat, i can only wonder how hard you were laughing at obama’s joke, i wonder what a boob you thought romney was.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Why is it it's always what about Obama and what about Clinton, doesn't anyone in Trump's camp have concerns about Trump's absolute denial of Russia interference and continued attempts to disrupt our democracy? At a minimum, I'd love to see them get their hands on Trump's tax returns to see who has influence over him and his family.

anyone in "Trump's camp" is probably circling the wagons like "Clinton's camp" did...like the "Obama Camp" did....why are you surprised??

how is he continuing to attempt to disrupt our democracy?

yes...the tax returns...now that would do it

how much money did the clintons collect from the russians and communist chinese over the years?....and they didn't have hotels or properties....they were purely trading government influence...

if trump has done what spence keep trumpeting about and it's as bad as he says...I'm sure it will come out and trump will pay the price....if it's so bad i don't know what they are waiting for....doesn't seem like a great idea to leave a guy in there so compromised if you actually have the goods on him

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

anyone in "Trump's camp" is probably circling the wagons like "Clinton's camp" did...like the "Obama Camp" did....why are you surprised??

how is he continuing to attempt to disrupt our democracy?

yes...the tax returns...now that would do it

how much money did the clintons collect from the russians and communist chinese over the years?....and they didn't have hotels or properties....they were purely trading government influence...

if trump has done what spence keep trumpeting about and it's as bad as he says...I'm sure it will come out and trump will pay the price....if it's so bad i don't know what they are waiting for....doesn't seem like a great idea to leave a guy in there so compromised if you actually have the goods on him

Thanks for proving my point, right back to what about the Clintons

[zimmy]

What a terrible mistake the Russians made. I guess they are the idiots. They should have helped Hillary win. Nobody has ever been as tough on Russia as trump. Lmfao if it were actually funny.
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[Sea Dangles]

If that is true then you better hold whoever was responsible at the time accountable. I don't think Obama would have let that happen under his close watch. No way
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[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

If that is true then you better hold whoever was responsible at the time accountable. I don't think Obama would have let that happen under his close watch. No way
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Right, because the intelligence agencies were doing nothing. Nice deflection comrade.
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[Sea Dangles]

You nailed it Zimmer.
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