Ukraine

[spence]

This is pretty heavy...

I like this perspective from the WP.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...39c_story.html

-spence

[Nebe]

Putin was made to look like a fool at Sochi. This is his attempt at redemption.
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[Sea Dangles]

There are enough Russian nationalists in Ukraine to warrant protective measures. We are always telling other nations what to do but I have a feeling if the shoe were on the other foot we may be whistling a different tune. Do you honestly feel if Block Island chose to become independent we would wish them good luck?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

There are enough Russian nationalists in Ukraine to warrant protective measures. We are always telling other nations what to do but I have a feeling if the shoe were on the other foot we may be whistling a different tune. Do you honestly feel if Block Island chose to become independent we would wish them good luck?

That begs the question was/is there really a threat to the Russian speaking Ukrainians? Most of those dead so far were shot by the old government's police.

Primarily this appears to be about Putin trying to stop the power shift towards the EU. His bribe to the former president didn't appear to work as planned...

-spence

[Sea Dangles]

Security is paramount and breeds some odd partnerships.We exploit countries every day to protect US interests.Does that make it wrong?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Security is paramount and breeds some odd partnerships.We exploit countries every day to protect US interests.Does that make it wrong?

Did I say it was wrong?

-spence

[justplugit]

" Obama would be wise to seek Russia to defer Russian aggression without
specifying too clearly what the US ladder of escalation might be." Ignatius, WP.

Putin is in the catbird seat carrying the "Big Stick" and will do what he wants.
We have become like Casper the Ghost carrying a tooth pick and planning to cut our military in half. True peace comes from strength ,not weakness, without it there is nothing to negotiate with.

[Nebe]

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[buckman]

I hope this Ukraine thing doesn't continue in the obvious direction it's heading .Your dear leader might have to sit in on a security council meeting or two .
I believe Ukraine is loaded with natural gas . This has nothing to do with Russian nationals . That's an excuse to invade . We've seen it before
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

I hope this Ukraine thing doesn't continue in the obvious direction it's heading .Your dear leader might have to sit in on a security council meeting or two .

Ohhhh, I see you fell prey to more Drudge nonsense. Soon Jim will chime in with voting present in IL.

I believe Ukraine is loaded with natural gas . This has nothing to do with Russian nationals . That's an excuse to invade . We've seen it before
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And in violation of their own treaty with the Ukraine. Note they were pending joining the EU which is a stepping stone to joining NATO. Russia is close to having a NATO wall between Europe.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Ohhhh, I see you fell prey to more Drudge nonsense. Soon Jim will chime in with voting present in IL.


And in violation of their own treaty with the Ukraine. Note they were pending joining the EU which is a stepping stone to joining NATO. Russia is close to having a NATO wall between Europe.

-spence

Hope you're right . I'm a little less trusting of socialist dictator wannabes
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[Nebe]

The irony here is that the us stock market is soaring today. That's the biggest "F-U" to Putin we can send. No one takes him seriously.
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[Piscator]

Originally Posted by Nebe

No one takes him seriously.
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Lets call a spade a spade...not many take Obama and his "team" seriously either.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Lets call a spade a spade...not many take Obama and his "team" seriously either.
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OK . . . I guess you chose the "spade" locution on purpose. But be careful. The administrations NSA spies are searching communications for key words and phrases that indicate extremist tendencies.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by detbuch

OK . . . I guess you chose the "spade" locution on purpose. But be careful. The administrations NSA spies are searching communications for key words and phrases that indicate extremist tendencies.

What are you talking about?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Piscator

What are you talking about?

That there is another definition of "spade" (infrequently used in a derogatory manner towards black people formerly of African extraction). The PC / Diversity folks will be scanning your system for you may use other terminology that would indicate you are an Obama hating racist white heterosexual male.

You can't use sayings or phrases unless they have been pre-approved by the diversity kommissars.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Piscator

What are you talking about?

Just a poor attempt at humor. Calling a spade a spade is obviously not meant to be a racial reference. On the other hand, a spade is a sometimes derogatory reference to a black person. Well, it used to be, but gone out of fashion. So, when referring to Obama you say calling a spade a spade . . . well . . .

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Lets call a spade a spade...not many take Obama and his "team" seriously either.
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I am pretty sure that is almost exactly what Putin calls Obama.
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[detbuch]

OOps . . . sorry John . . . I jumped in while you were posting and before I saw it. And I like your explanation better.

[The Dad Fisherman]

You guys are all a bunch of crazy crackers.....
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[Piscator]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You guys are all a bunch of crazy crackers.....
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Cracker.....wait a minute. Like

or

"Cracker, sometimes white cracker or cracka, is a derogatory term for white people,[1] especially poor rural whites in the Southern United States. In reference to a native of Florida or Georgia, however, it is sometimes used in a neutral or positive context and is sometimes used self-descriptively with pride."

Or do you just mean we are nuts?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Cracker.....wait a minute. Like

or

"Cracker, sometimes white cracker or cracka, is a derogatory term for white people,[1] especially poor rural whites in the Southern United States. In reference to a native of Florida or Georgia, however, it is sometimes used in a neutral or positive context and is sometimes used self-descriptively with pride."

Or do you just mean we are nuts?

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[Raven]

Shouldn't there be an ICE CREAM flavor Named after PUTIN?

I mean, COME ON Now

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

This is pretty heavy...

I like this perspective from the WP.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...39c_story.html

-spence

Spence, here is another perspective sort of along the lines of, or at least allied with, your heavy article. I think you would agree with it, if it's not too aggressive for your tastes. I like parts of it. But I wonder why it takes an American as well as American treasure for something like this to happen. I do like the call for reinstating the plan to install the anti-ballistic sites in Poland and Czechoslovakia which the Obama administration eliminated. And I really like the call for stepping up U.S. oil production including the lifting of the bans on government sites. That would really benefit our sluggish economy as well as replace the need for Ukraine and Western Europe to depend on Russian high priced oil while it would remove Putin's ace against economic sanctions.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/03/05/...-in-the-teeth/

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Spence, here is another perspective sort of along the lines of, or at least allied with, your heavy article. I think you would agree with it, if it's not too aggressive for your tastes. I like parts of it. But I wonder why it takes an American as well as American treasure for something like this to happen. I do like the call for reinstating the plan to install the anti-ballistic sites in Poland and Czechoslovakia which the Obama administration eliminated. And I really like the call for stepping up U.S. oil production including the lifting of the bans on government sites. That would really benefit our sluggish economy as well as replace the need for Ukraine and Western Europe to depend on Russian high priced oil while it would remove Putin's ace against economic sanctions.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/03/05/...-in-the-teeth/

I said above that we have several economic options that would do Russia serious harm. The Administration has certainly indicated this is a route we're willing to go down.

As for his assertion the Ukraine should cut off Crimea from services...that's pretty unwise IMHO and would give Putin further rationale to move under the guise of protecting Russians...

-spence

[justplugit]

I like Tracinski's approach, but it would take an administration that doesn't pussy foot around, wouldn't pull shields from the Poles and Cheks, have open mikes revealing "we'll talk after the election" and pushing re-set buttons.
The message has already been sent ,and unless there is a 360, Putin will milk it for all it's worth.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

I like Tracinski's approach, but it would take an administration that doesn't pussy foot around, wouldn't pull shields from the Poles and Cheks, have open mikes revealing "we'll talk after the election" and pushing re-set buttons.
The message has already been sent ,and unless there is a 360, Putin will milk it for all it's worth.

The reality is as Obama once noted...the Cold War really is over. Putin can play games but most of what was the Eastern Bloc are now EU and NATO members.

Without strong ties to Western antagonists and an energy dependent economy Russia has little to offer, it's a 3rd world country.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

The reality is as Obama once noted...the Cold War really is over. Putin can play games but most of what was the Eastern Bloc are now EU and NATO members.

Without strong ties to Western antagonists and an energy dependent economy Russia has little to offer, it's a 3rd world country.

-spence

Which is why I don't understand why the U.S. has to be involved. We could supply the Eastern Europeans with some weaponry and technology. The combined EU has more than enough resource and manpower to stand on their own, and to slap Putin and his ambitions silly. Even more so, since most of the Russian people don't want to go the mat for their Stalin-lite dictator's expansionist desire if it means they have to sacrifice and die for it. That would be the most demonstrative and lasting way for the Europeans to discourage threats from tyrannical bullies.

Maybe they just haven't fully bought in to what a union requires. Maybe they like and want to keep their differences intact, including the eternal squabbles and hates and jealousies among each other. And maybe they are just too used to depending on Big Brother America stepping in to do the dirty, bloody, and expensive heavy lifting. And maybe too many of them have their own internal problems, ethnic and economic, that concern them more than the fate of Ukraine.

The greatest good for their union, if they want to keep it and make it work, would be for them to get a unified backbone and punch the bully in the face, without outside help, and keep punching till he can't get up.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

The reality is as Obama once noted...the Cold War really is over.

-spence

The cold war maybe over as it was once described, but if he looks out
the window and sees Iran, Syria, North Korea, and now the Ukraine,
the winter vortex is coming fast.
I really doubt the EU wants to make the sacrifices needed to pressure
Russia. As was stated ,it is the US that always carries the heavy load and it's
time Europe stood up to the plate and lead the way.

[Nebe]

This thread makes me crave Poutine
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