Brave speech in Swedish parliament about Islam

[Nebe]

I find it pretty sad that I find myself who is pretty much an atheist has stronger christian beliefs that most christians out there. I give to charity, I would welcome a stranger in who might need help, I don't judge others and I am pretty much a pacifist. But the hate, the fear, the ignorant whitewashing i have seen lately by those who wear their religions on their sleeves as a badge of pride is really sad. I suppose we will all be judged by our actions in the end.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I don't judge others and I am pretty much a pacifist. But the hate, the fear, the ignorant whitewashing i have seen lately by those who wear their religions on their sleeves as a badge of pride is really sad. I suppose we will all be judged by our actions in the end.

sounds pretty judgmental

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

sounds pretty judgmental

Right!

"I'm not being judgmental, but I find your opinions to be loathsome."

Nebe, what evidence do you have that your actions are superior to those whom you are attacking, and I presume you are talking about me?

I am a devout, thought obviously flawed, Catholic. There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING in the catechism, to suggest that when a group of people want nothing more than to kill my whole family, that as a Catholic I'm supposed to respond with hugs.

Again, did you feel your grandfather was an accomplice to genocide? If not, why were his actions any diferent than what you think I am suggesting.

There were Japanese citizens that wanted nothing to do with the war, and thousands of them were fried to death during the napalm bombing carried out by the US. Was that "genocide" on our part? Was it unethical? What was the alternative, to let Japan continue to rape their way across China, and continue to eat the flesh of captured enemies? Because that's what they were doing. And they were not going to stop until they were brought to their knees. And this enemy has many of the same attributes as the Japanese that you rgrandfather helped kill (or woud you call it "murder"?) at Tarawa. They are fanatics who, simply, will not stop. Ever.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

But the hate, the fear, the ignorant whitewashing i have seen lately by those who wear their religions on their sleeves as a badge of pride is really sad. I suppose we will all be judged by our actions in the end.

You know what's truly sad? I asked you, three times, to tell me what the guy said in the video, which you could show was wrong. And you offered exactly, precisely, zilch. So you cannot suggest that ANYTHING he said in a 6 minute speech was wrong, but you can't conclude he therefore has a point.

Plenty of insults from you (he's a genocidal racist!!). But you cannot counter one single thing he said. All you did was hurl insults.

And that's my opinion of classic liberalism, in a nutshell. When you know you cannot refute what we are saying, you hurl claims of hate and racism instead. It's a tiresome and predictable response to what was a fair question by me.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

i wouldn't say the japanese casualties were a genocide as every one of those guys fought to the death. anyone who surrendered was taken prisoner. The difference between that situation and this situation is that not every middle eastern muslim poses a death threat to you or me, unless you are a god fearing scared of anyone who isn't like you isolationist fascist and want to irradiate the threat completely.

The swede is not wrong on paper, but is fundamentally morally wrong. I bet he is also a white supremacist and jerks off to midget porn while wearing women's underwear.

"i wouldn't say the japanese casualties were a genocide as every one of those guys fought to the death"

Do you have any idea how many Japanese civilians were killed bu the napalm bombing, and the atomic weapons, that we used? Hundreds of thousands. Many were women and children who wanted nothing to do with the war. Your grandfather was a part of that effort.

We did that, becaise the Japanese forced us to do it. If they stopped murdering, raping, and eating everyone in their path, we would have been more than happy to lay down our arms. But they wouldn't stop.

When one side wages war, particularly barnaric war like the Japanese and ISIS are doing, the only way to stop them is to get almost as ugly as they are. That's a horrible thing. I don't like it, i hate it. But it's reality.

And Islamic jihadists aren't equally committed to fightring to the death? How many have surrendered?

"The difference between that situation and this situation is that not every middle eastern muslim poses a death threat to you or me"

That does NOT make a distinction betweed WWII and th ewar with teror. As I said, we killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese women and babies who posed no direct threat to anyone. But th eonly way to end th ewar, was to annihilate centers of Japanese industry, which were in civilian areas. So we did it. We didn't like it. We did it because they forced us to do it.

"The swede is not wrong on paper, but is fundamentally morally wrong. I bet he is also a white supremacist "

There we go!! I admit everything he said was correct, but because I don't like what his truthful statements mean, he must be a racist! He must be dismissed, because otherwise I might have to admit he has a point, and I'm too close-minded to ever do that!

Pathetic.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The swede is not wrong on paper, but is fundamentally morally wrong.

How do atheists arrive at some "morality?" Are all atheists supposed to think alike. Is one atheist's "morality" superior to another's? What if one atheistic morality, say a communist, understands and "believes" it is proper and necessary to subjugate atheists of another morality (free market atheists for instance), and to impose its own morality on them? Who is to say either morality is the "good" one? Would it be the ultimate atheistic morality to say that the strong one should prevail? What other "metric" should be applied to decide? Should one morality simply give itself up to the other so as to avoid the immorality of opposing another morality? You say you have stronger Christian beliefs than most Christians. Would you go the limit and turn your other cheek when those of a different persuasion than you wish to subjugate you to their morality?

I bet he is also a white supremacist and jerks off to midget porn while wearing women's underwear.

I bet it felt good to say that. Perhaps makes you morally to superior to most Christians.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

And that's my opinion of classic liberalism, in a nutshell.

I'm, guessing by classic liberalism you don't mean classical liberalism which is entirely different than what are referred to as political liberals today. In many respects, you are a classical liberal. And, by the way, in many respects, Nebe is not.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I'm, guessing by classic liberalism you don't mean classical liberalism which is entirely different than what are referred to as political liberals today. In many respects, you are a classical liberal. And, by the way, in many respects, Nebe is not.

Yes, I meant it was a classic example of how they behave today. This could not have been a better example to prove my point. Which is, when faced with the reality that the other guy is stating facts and telling the truth, rather than admit that he might therefore have a valid point, most liberals will yell "hate crime!" and then run away with their fingers in their ears. They do it all the time, on every issue.

If you are pro-life, liberals say you are attacking women's health.
If you disagree with Obama, you are a racist.
If you want to do what's necessary to stop ISIS, you are an Islamophobe
If you want our duly constituted immigration laws enforced, you are an anti-latino bigot
If you like the free market, you love Wall Street and hate the little guy
If you are opposed to gay marriage, you are necessarily a homophobe
If you concede that Social Security needs to be fixed, you don't like old people
If youthink we should pay our teachers only what we can afford, you don't care if kids are illiterate.
If you think Medicare is in financial trouble, then as Florida senate candidate Alan Greyson says, you want sick people to die.

As Obama said, "Republicans gotta stop just hatin' all the time". Yup, that's all John McCain does all day, every day...he spews hate. John McCain, who adopted a girl from a 3rd world country and changed her life indescribably. Unless Obama is full of sh*t, that was an act of hate, right?

I cannot stand this tactic Detbuch. Our economy, our culture, our moral compass, our physical safety, our ability to make the world a better place...all are in jeopardy. And these people refuse to engage in honest debate.

[scottw]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6763496.html

[Nebe]

I think I made you guys mad
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I think I made you guys mad
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No, you didn't, no worries!!

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I think I made you guys mad
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I think you are funny

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Some facts about fascism -


Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.


Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause:

The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.


Supremacy of the Military:

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.



The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.


Supremacy of the Military:

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.


Rampant Sexism:

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.


Controlled Mass Media:

Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.


Obsession with National Security:

Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.


Religion and Government are Intertwined:

Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.


Corporate Power is Protected:

The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.


Labor Power is Suppressed:

Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .


Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts:

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.


Obsession with Crime and Punishment:

Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.


Rampant Cronyism and Corruption:

Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.


Fraudulent Elections:

Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
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Eben...go back and actually read this and consider what you are actually describing as it applies today