Taxes

[justplugit]

Here are a few #s found on Tax Foundation.org--- income tax rates history since 1908, a nonpartisan educational organization.

Taxes under Clinton 1999-------------------------Taxes under Bush 2008
single making 30K tax -$8400*****************single making 30K-tax$4500
single making 50K tax-$14,000*************single making 50k-tax-$12,500
single making 75K tax-$23,250*************single making 75K-tax-$18,750
married 60K tax-$16,800*****************married 60K tax-$9000
married 75K tax-$21,000*****************married 75K tax-$18,750
married 125 K tax-$38,750****************married 125 K tax-$31,250

Why would anybody, except the politicians, want to roll back the Bush tax cuts?

[PaulS]

So we don't have to leave our children and grandchildren a legacy of not paying our own way???????

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So we don't have to leave our children and grandchildren a legacy of not paying our own way???????

You're kidding right??? You think we dont pay enough taxes??? You gotta be kiddin' me dude.....

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Skip N

You're kidding right??? You think we dont pay enough taxes??? You gotta be kiddin' me dude.....

well when the country is in the red and we have to borrow billions of $$ from china, yes we are not paying enough on taxes.

The solution is not paying more money in, its eliminating unnecessary government spending and promoting job growth in this country.

[spence]

If we can't control our spending then we either have to raise taxes, borrow more money or seek innovative ways to generate more tax revenue.

The GOP mantra about Reagan proving that lowering tax rates to increase revenue works isn't exactly a good rule to follow as it isn't really like always true.

-spence

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Skip N

You're kidding right??? You think we dont pay enough taxes??? You gotta be kiddin' me dude.....

Your right, lets cut taxes somemore and leave them more of a defecit

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by spence

If we can't control our spending then we either have to raise taxes, borrow more money or seek innovative ways to generate more tax revenue.

The GOP mantra about Reagan proving that lowering tax rates to increase revenue works isn't exactly a good rule to follow as it isn't really like always true.

-spence

PorkBarrel politics has us all paying.
I would be interested in seeing if we can find a plot of the increase in federal deficit sign the great communicator was in office.

[RIJIMMY]

whoa, are these figures accurate?
If so, that would mean when ol' Hil and Barak say that all GWB did was put more money back to the rich, would be a 100%...LIE? Could it be? Why would they do that?
So, maybe I am taking a leap here, but if they reverse the tax cuts, could it acually be possible that it would HURT the middle class? Geez, it may actually HURT the people who work and pay taxes, maybe? But its all good, we'll have universal health care, so I can wait in line behind the kids that dropped out of high school and sit around and smoke dope all day, while I work my arse off. Thats fair, we're all equal.

[Diggin Jiggin]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Here are a few #s found on Tax Foundation.org--- income tax rates history since 1908, a nonpartisan educational organization.

Taxes under Clinton 1999-------------------------Taxes under Bush 2008
single making 30K tax -$8400*****************single making 30K-tax$4500
single making 50K tax-$14,000*************single making 50k-tax-$12,500
single making 75K tax-$23,250*************single making 75K-tax-$18,750
married 60K tax-$16,800*****************married 60K tax-$9000
married 75K tax-$21,000*****************married 75K tax-$18,750
married 125 K tax-$38,750****************married 125 K tax-$31,250

Why would anybody, except the politicians, want to roll back the Bush tax cuts?

And to make up for the lower fed taxes, whats happened at the state and local level. Why have all fees risen so drastically. My property taxes have been doubled, and even with the local taxes doubled, why do schools now need to charge fees for taking the bus.

Interesting looking at the doc on that site. Had you chosen a single income of 32,600,
it was taxed at 28% in 99 =9128, 25% now=8150.

You can play with numbers however you want to get the result you want. Unless you look at ALL the taxes you are paying State,fed,sales,gas,property taxes etc and compare the dollar amount for each year to what you earned that year, you can't really see anything meaningful.

[Joe]

I thought the current top rate for wage-earners taxes was 28% - that formula shows 24%

[Joe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

whoa, are these figures accurate?
If so, that would mean when ol' Hil and Barak say that all GWB did was put more money back to the rich, would be a 100%...LIE? Could it be? Why would they do that?
So, maybe I am taking a leap here, but if they reverse the tax cuts, could it acually be possible that it would HURT the middle class? Geez, it may actually HURT the people who work and pay taxes, maybe? But its all good, we'll have universal health care, so I can wait in line behind the kids that dropped out of high school and sit around and smoke dope all day, while I work my arse off. Thats fair, we're all equal.

The trust-fund babies who never worked a day in their lives and get their money from the trust set up by great-grandpa - they only have to pay 15%. The top-wage earners (people who worked hard and stuff) are subsidizing the tax burden for the generational rich - this is what Warren Buffet is referring to when he talks about the tax code being favorable to the ruling class.

[fishbones]

The real problem with tax dollars is where they are being spent. More money than ever is going towards "assistance" programs such as welfare, unemployment, etc..... Ebens point about creating jobs is good, but there are jobs out there for a lot of people. Unfortunately, they find it easier not to work and to stay at home having children who's food, diapers, etc... are being paid for by working stiffs. These children are then raised to think this way of life is "normal" and perpetuate the problem. Welfare, unemployment, food stamps, etc... were all created with the best intentions. To help people get back on their feet. But, there are people who use it as a way of life and are draining tax dollars in the process. I'd like to see new programs put in place to force people to develop job readiness skill and get back to work to support themselves. If they can get people (who are able to work) off government assistance, the money could be spent in other areas. They can raise or lower tax rates all they want, but where the money is spent is what matters most.

[PaulS]

Can you get welfare for your whole life? If you don't work, how can you get unemployment and how long does it last?

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Can you get welfare for your whole life? If you don't work, how can you get unemployment and how long does it last?

With welfare benefits, you have to re-apply periodically. But, they won't cut off benefits after a certain amount of time. Unemployment is a maximum of 26 weeks per calendar year, but you have to work an amount of time equal to the amount of time you collect benefits. If someone works for half a year, they can collect for the rest of the year. So, many people take minimum wage jobs and work for 3 to 6 months, then "get let go" and collect for the next 3 to 6 months. Welfare is more of a drain on taxes because people can stay on it for as long as they desire.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by fishbones

The real problem with tax dollars is where they are being spent. More money than ever is going towards "assistance" programs such as welfare, unemployment, etc..... Ebens point about creating jobs is good, but there are jobs out there for a lot of people. Unfortunately, they find it easier not to work and to stay at home having children who's food, diapers, etc... are being paid for by working stiffs. These children are then raised to think this way of life is "normal" and perpetuate the problem. Welfare, unemployment, food stamps, etc... were all created with the best intentions. To help people get back on their feet. But, there are people who use it as a way of life and are draining tax dollars in the process. I'd like to see new programs put in place to force people to develop job readiness skill and get back to work to support themselves. If they can get people (who are able to work) off government assistance, the money could be spent in other areas.

For the last 50 years, since the Watts and Newark riots, the politicians have thrown just enough money at the poor to keep them where they are with a feeling of entitlement and not much else except to buy themselves votes. Imho more $$ won't do it.

The schools and teachers are already there to prepare the kids to become educated and get jobs, but the kids need soild family backing by their families to motivate them to go to school, do their homework and succeed.
Without that kind of guidance nothing will work, just the same old cycle of ,little discipline, lack of motivation and a feeling of hopelessnes.

Unfortunately, money can't buy good values ,morals and families which are the things needed to move things forward imho.

[Nebe]

If you ask me, there should be a mandatory drug test to collect welfare.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by justplugit

For the last 50 years, since the Watts and Newark riots, the politicians have thrown just enough money at the poor to keep them where they are with a feeling of entitlement and not much else except to buy themselves votes. Imho more $$ won't do it.

The schools and teachers are already there to prepare the kids to become educated and get jobs, but the kids need soild family backing by their families to motivate them to go to school, do their homework and succeed.
Without that kind of guidance nothing will work, just the same old cycle of ,little discipline, lack of motivation and a feeling of hopelessnes.

Unfortunately, money can't buy good values ,morals and families which are the things needed to move things forward imho.

I agree 100%. I meant that the money coming in now should be more wisely spent on programs to get people off of welfare, unemployment, etc..., not adding more money for new programs. It's become a way of life and a lot of people can't (or won't) break the cycle. I place a lot of blame on the politicians because they keep it going. They learned long ago to dangle the programs in front of the people to keep the votes coming their way. I work in a really bad neighborhood and every day I see the results of social programs becoming a lifestyle, as opposed to a crutch to help people when they need to get back on their feet.

[Joe]

Dats your federal budget pie chart....

"Income Security" that's the money the goverment kicks in when a corporation (or union) can no longer pay the people who earned a pension because they went under or they can't afford it. Being the only super power is very costly..

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by justplugit

For the last 50 years, since the Watts and Newark riots, the politicians have thrown just enough money at the poor to keep them where they are with a feeling of entitlement and not much else except to buy themselves votes. Imho more $$ won't do it.

The schools and teachers are already there to prepare the kids to become educated and get jobs, but the kids need soild family backing by their families to motivate them to go to school, do their homework and succeed.
Without that kind of guidance nothing will work, just the same old cycle of ,little discipline, lack of motivation and a feeling of hopelessnes.

Unfortunately, money can't buy good values ,morals and families which are the things needed to move things forward imho.

Well said

[179]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

whoa, are these figures accurate?
If so, that would mean when ol' Hil and Barak say that all GWB did was put more money back to the rich, would be a 100%...LIE? Could it be? Why would they do that?
So, maybe I am taking a leap here, but if they reverse the tax cuts, could it acually be possible that it would HURT the middle class? Geez, it may actually HURT the people who work and pay taxes, maybe? But its all good, we'll have universal health care, so I can wait in line behind the kids that dropped out of high school and sit around and smoke dope all day, while I work my arse off. Thats fair, we're all equal.

So 30k and 50k are now considered the "Rich" by the left and should be punished by paying more taxes? Interesting

[spence]

I just had this email passed along to me by my father so I did some checking and found that the Tax Foundation site being referenced refutes the numbers of the unknown author...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/22958.html

-spence

[mosholu]

Besides the repeal of the tax cuts Obama has called for the lifting of the cap on how much of your income is eligible to pay for social security. This will hurt a lot of middle class families because that extra 2% is generally their discretionary income and brings down their quality of life. Do we have to do it? I am not sure. I think there are other things we can do but I question if we have the resolve for dealing with pork. I would propose that there be some limits on how much you can leave to your estate. I do not know where you set the marker. I am talking about millions but when you read how much executive pay has skyrocketed and how much the taxpayer gets stuck with the short stick (Bear Stearns, the income security Joe talked about above) there should be some claw back. These people made this money in part through the benefits and protections of this country and when their time is done they can well take care of their family but the rest should go back to the government. I see no reason to permanently endow a leisure class in this country when so many are finding times hard. I also think there should be a super tax paid on amounts above say 10 million. It is not going to balance the budget but it does send a message that the ones that truly benefit from this system (and their own work) should contribute more. Flat tax would be nice as well but that enough for one post.

[wheresmy50]

It's widely known, or it should be, that taxes under Bush are some of the lowest ever. While there are legitimate beefs with Bush's economic policy, don't look to taxes to find them.

My opinion is the way to control the deficit is by controlling spending, not taxes. This is where I feel Bush deserves the most criticism, for being way too liberal regarding social spending. Unfortunately I don't think this is going to improve over the next 4-8 years unless all of the current candidates quit now and someone else enters the race. Obviously McCain would be predisposed to spend less, but he's by no means a "Reagan" republican.

The fact of the matter is overall taxes (local, state, sales, etc) are so high because of government waste, corruption, and misuse. Short of building a time machine, I don't think we'll ever change that. They're like anacondas, they only take.

It's interesting to travel around the country and see areas with vastly different levels of state and local taxes, and the relative differences. For instance, some states with high taxes have good roads and schools, but some are worse than states with very low tax rates.

Nebe - Drug test? How about at least checking the social security number to make sure they're citicens. I know for a fact that in my area people get certain social services without any citicenship verification. We all pay for that nonsense.

[GattaFish]

How about this one,,, and YES this is happening,,,, Foreigners come to this country,,,, From everywhere... (huge problem with computer programmers from India)

Get work visa's then eventually green cards,,,,, Then they bring their parents here get them their green cards and they immediately qualify for Social Security...

Their parents then return to their country of origin and reap the direct deposits of U.S Dollars into their account from the SS system,,,,, Most never really work a day in the U.S. and get back home to live in Luxury..... think about that next time you see the deduction on you pay stub...


I think we should stop GIVING money to the rest of the world and maybe we can get things straight with the Social security system and budget at home... The more we give people in far away places the less pressure they feel to fix their own problems and the more they keep turning to the U.S. for help....

And in case you were interested the number of people crossing the border in one location into Arizona are not just from Mexico but also from South America and Central America can be over 500 per day in one spot. Note: there are many many spots,,,... of which only 200 per day are detained/processed then returned to their country of origin only to do it again,,, these numbers are conservative based on the time of year,,,, The worst part of that is the majority of them returned to those countries have already committed serious criminal acts in the U.S,,,, with the largest numbers being child molesters. Many of these people are uncuffed and unshackled when they return home and have no criminal history to follow them. A few countries actually punish them for their offenses,,,,

Think about that next time you child goes to the bus stop alone....

These #'s are just one spot and one little section of the world,,, Think about how many people come from, Africa, The Middle East and the Far East just to name a few.

Tomorrow will be another day with 200 cuffed and shackled getting a free ride home, paid for by you and I......And just so you all know 200 people don't fit on a bus or make it to South America in 4 1/2 - 5 hours

ok ,, I am done,,,

[mosholu]

I think that there should be some time period requirement for receipt of benefits and you should lost the benefits if you leave the country unless you become a citizen. However the thing you have to remember is we are a nation of immigrants. The things that are being said today about Asians were said 100-150 years ago about Irish, Germans and Italians.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by GattaFish

How about this one,,, and YES this is happening,,,, Foreigners come to this country,,,, From everywhere... (huge problem with computer programmers from India)

Get work visa's then eventually green cards,,,,, Then they bring their parents here get them their green cards and they immediately qualify for Social Security...

Their parents then return to their country of origin and reap the direct deposits of U.S Dollars into their account from the SS system,,,,, Most never really work a day in the U.S. and get back home to live in Luxury..... think about that next time you see the deduction on you pay stub...


I think we should stop GIVING money to the rest of the world and maybe we can get things straight with the Social security system and budget at home... The more we give people in far away places the less pressure they feel to fix their own problems and the more they keep turning to the U.S. for help....

And in case you were interested the number of people crossing the border in one location into Arizona are not just from Mexico but also from South America and Central America can be over 500 per day in one spot. Note: there are many many spots,,,... of which only 200 per day are detained/processed then returned to their country of origin only to do it again,,, these numbers are conservative based on the time of year,,,, The worst part of that is the majority of them returned to those countries have already committed serious criminal acts in the U.S,,,, with the largest numbers being child molesters. Many of these people are uncuffed and unshackled when they return home and have no criminal history to follow them. A few countries actually punish them for their offenses,,,,

Think about that next time you child goes to the bus stop alone....

These #'s are just one spot and one little section of the world,,, Think about how many people come from, Africa, The Middle East and the Far East just to name a few.

Tomorrow will be another day with 200 cuffed and shackled getting a free ride home, paid for by you and I......And just so you all know 200 people don't fit on a bus or make it to South America in 4 1/2 - 5 hours

ok ,, I am done,,,

Sorry, But that is pure BS. To qulality for Social Security you have to have worked for a minimum number of quarters, I think its about 4 yers but I'm not sure about that. what you say is true about Medicare, but not social security.

[spence]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Sorry, But that is pure BS. To qulality for Social Security you have to have worked for a minimum number of quarters, I think its about 4 yers but I'm not sure about that. what you say is true about Medicare, but not social security.

There's a lot of BS in that post, I was hoping it would just go away

-spence

[Hooper]

I was a registered Republican since the age of 18. No longer.

I have absolutely "zero" confidence that the governmental leadership in this country wants to do what is good for the nation anymore. Dems, Reps, whatever, it all turns to BS in Washington.

[GattaFish]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Sorry, But that is pure BS. To qulality for Social Security you have to have worked for a minimum number of quarters, I think its about 4 yers but I'm not sure about that. what you say is true about Medicare, but not social security.

Guess you don't get that they are running a scam on the government and getting away with it,,,, Because that is what it is,,, honestly I wish it was B.S. and so do the people track it. Unfortunately it takes time to cancel it. And yes there is a period of time to work but that is part of the scam.. I personally do not track or know every specific on it but it was described to me by the people that do as recently as Monday.

OK update.... I just asked one of the guys to give me more info on it,,,, He said it starts with a H-1b work visa.. The programmers come and work under that visa for 6 years then get their green cards... Mean while they never pay Social security taxes because India does not have a SS program (just like some other countries),,, They then get their Green card and the SS dept never recoups their taxes yet they immediately qualify for Social security and then pay SS tax and many stay in the U.S. as contributors.... But they run a scam with getting their parents here supposedly working on the same type h-1b visa for a period of time (6 years most of which is spent abroad) in which they really never work in the U.S. then once they get their green card they too qualify for SS and have never paid in,,,, now they go back to their country and live well,,,, and we pay for it,,,

Hope thats more clear..... It is kinda hard to explain and put it all into words. I have no idea about the Medicare.... I am sure you are right....

Originally Posted by spence

There's a lot of BS in that post, I was hoping it would just go away

-spence

interesting comment,,, Guess your not familiar with ********** contracts...

In case you were wondering the other day it was Guatemala City, Guatemala (MGGT) and today it was Tegucigalpa, Honduras (MHTG)... we are rotating crews because of flight time.. We also burned over 12,000 (YES twelve thousand) gallons of fuel TODAY.....

Not sure what you think is B.S. but let me know and I can clarify it for you,,,,

I did not write this post to tell a story or B.S. anyone only to share with you what I have seen first hand...

Reading the Pax manifests would make you sick,,,, They list everything about the individuals,,, including their crimes,,,,,

I wish I could post pics but that is not allowed,,,

[spence]

First off, anyone who thinks that computer programmers coming from India to the USA is a "huge problem" has little idea of how the global hightech economy works and what does and does not benefit the USA. We could use more Indian computer developers, not less.

Secondly, if you have a green card you can't simply bring your parents here with you. You can petition for your spouse and kids to enter the country, but even this is regulated with government quotas.

And as MakoMike says, there's no instant qualification for SS. I looked it up and unless you're disabled I believe there's a 10 year minimum to receive benefits at age 62.

So much for a gravy train of retired Indians living la dolce vita in Mumbai. Unless there's some reporting on this? I haven't seen any.

I'm not going to challenge the flow of illegals into this country, whatever the number it certainly is pretty huge is perhaps even bigger than you state.

But you're saying the majority of those being returned violating US law are child molesters?

Got any real statistics to back this up or are you just trying to make people afraid of Mexicans? I can't find any direct stats on this but it does look like the vast majority of aliens expelled from the US are voluntary, which wouldn't be the case if they were in violation of US criminal law.

-spence