The National Debt

[JohnR]

Let's hear some real solutions. No Obama, Bush, or Trump bashing. Both parties own this.

No partisanship.

How do we fix this? We are doing little if anything to reign this in. Twenty years ago the debt was around a trillion, now it is at 21 Trillion and in 10 years could be at 35 Trillion Dollars.

Don't know if we can QE out of this.

[Jim in CT]

nothing close to an easy solution. start cutting things that aren’t necessary, like the national endowment of the arts.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Changing how the Goverment does their budgeting would be a good place to start. They need to stop drawing it up on what they spent last FY and start forcasting what they will need to spend on the upcoming fiscal year. It will get rid of the "Spend it so we can get it" mentality that occurs at the end of the FY

[nightfighter]

I have to interject the major impact inflation has made on this equation. The valuations are not realistic, be they $10k toilets on a government contract or the new listings in the local real estate market. Throw in ridiculous contracts for professional athletes to underline the craziness. The system IS skewed in favor of the one percenters, and the uber rich. You want to fix things? Income cap of 250k/yr. Across the board. No reason anyone needs more. Reign in the ridiculous monthly payments made to countries like Pakistan that give nothing in return. Hold everyone in Washington accountable. Someone will say this sounds like socialism or communism. Maybe so, and might be the only course to reverse the course of the great American society which is headed the way of the Roman Empire... Death due to excesses.

[nightfighter]

We could also look at the lack of work ethic in our society as well. There are a couple of groups, be they Gen X or Y, twenty something or thirty What some of those groups don't know, my generation takes for granted. I throw my kids in these groups too... They need to engage their brain and not depend on a smart phone. (I recently sent my daughter into an auto supply store to get headlight fluid for her car.... She was pissed and embarrassed, but got the message. But she also got the guy behind the counter to change the bulb for her, instead of figuring out how to do it herself....)

[wdmso]

Unfunded wars in Iraqi Afghanistan Syria and associated private contracts no bid contracts and ..miltary spending in general . tax cuts lower tax receipts haven't helped .. don't see foreign aid as a big issue in the grand scheme of things .. we'll always run a deficit and I feel its unrealistic to think you can run as balanced budget . But w ed should be able to cap the deficit. But there's no will form Congress it's all about re election
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Unfunded wars in Iraqi Afghanistan Syria and associated private contracts no bid contracts and ..miltary spending in general . tax cuts lower tax receipts haven't helped .. don't see foreign aid as a big issue in the grand scheme of things .. we'll always run a deficit and I feel its unrealistic to think you can run as balanced budget . But w ed should be able to cap the deficit. But there's no will form Congress it's all about re election
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"we'll always run a deficit "

Tell that to Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich. Although, they had the advantage of the Baby Boomers not yet being a drain on SS and Medicare. Thanks to that, maybe deficits are unavoidable.

"But w ed should be able to cap the deficit. But there's no will form Congress it's all about re election"

Agreed 100%. Both parties worry about the debt when they are the minority, and then spend like crazy once in power to buy votes.

[Jim in CT]

And term limits would go a long way to fixing this, to the extent it can be fixed. Without term limits, politicians decide they like DC and being a big lasagna, so they want to stay. Often, what you need to do to get re-elected, and what you ought to do to represent your constituents' interests, are at odds with each other. Easiest way to get re-elected, is to give big $$ to influential people who will support you.

We're way past time for term limits, no rational argument against it.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Unfunded wars in Iraqi Afghanistan Syria and associated private contracts no bid contracts and ..miltary spending in general . tax cuts lower tax receipts haven't helped .. don't see foreign aid as a big issue in the grand scheme of things .. we'll always run a deficit and I feel its unrealistic to think you can run as balanced budget . But w ed should be able to cap the deficit. But there's no will form Congress it's all about re election
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Thank you for your balanced approach, covering ALL of the reasons for the overspending the past two decades. Your ability to cross the aisle on issues is noted ; )

We do cap the deficit, and then the government is going to shutdown unless there is an agreement to raise the cap, which only occurs after each side extracts it's pound of flesh and port.

You can (and should) run some deficit spending and it works short term but eventually you have to spend more and more money paying the interest or you default. Eventually the numbers run until you have to default.

[nightfighter]

There has been a significant cost added from going alone as the world's policeman... Current administration is calling other nations on the carpet. But the failure of the UN and NATO to fulfill their original intentions lies with all nations, especially those who don't pull their own weight footing the bill.

[DZ]

It's a complicated issue which provides good talking points but no one ever really wants to tackle the problem. We've heard it all before, entitlement reform, cut military spending, time limit the welfare safety net, etc.

All these things are going to hurt someone.

I suspect nothing will ever be done.

[detbuch]

When those in power have abandoned the principles on which our system of government was built, and there is no guiding principle on which we operate, there is no logical possibility of resolving the debt. The only "solution" is collapse and rebuild.

We keep scratching the surface, tinkering around the edges, verbally flailing and floundering in a sea of "solutions" like budgeting, income control, foreign aid cuts, cut military spending, stay out of wars, changing tax policy, term limits, capping this or that, control or eliminate entitlements, and on and on. Some of which is actually tried, some of which won't be, and none of which will work. Because none are guided by an overall principle of government. All are temporary expediences, plugs in a dam which is too eroded to hold back the flood of chaos which comes when there is no creed, no article of faith in which we all believe, to keep us unified in our resistance to lawlessness.

Folks like me keep harping on getting back to constitutional principles, but that doesn't seem to catch on. Most folks seem to think we actually are operating under those principles. We are mostly happy in the wash of abundance, and satisfied to trust that our principles are intact, and that our pols just need to be more responsible.

But when there is not merely "Death due to excesses" that Nightfighter cites, but an actual campaign by many of those in power to dispatch our founding principles and replace them with the very ill that has caused the national debt, namely unlimited government, and they have successfully replaced the founding language with words and new meanings that gradually and eventually become and have become what we perceive as being true, we are left in the quandary of believing that we are basically OK. We just need to tweak a few things and stuff like the debt will be fixed.

No, we are not fundamentally OK. The body politic is sick. It's integrity has been destroyed. It has no guiding principle from which it perceives what is politically right and politically wrong. And there is no medicine to cure that. There is only the eventual collapse of that body, only to be revived by reinstituting its original creed, or creating a new one.

That's where we are. And our impending financial collapse may be the only cure to the rot that has invaded our national reason for existence.

[beamie]

You just wait till they start going after all the money in peoples 401k more and more as they get drunk on spending
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[nightfighter]

Back when people united to do the right thing....

Even in 1806 (213 years ago), Marblehead's annual Town Meeting was a unique and special occasion. While Marbleheaders were... "Democratic at all times, and under all circumstances, they were especially so when in town meeting assembled. The wealthy merchant, proud of his aristocratic ancestry; the imperious captain, accustomed to the strict discipline of a ship, where he had but to command to be obeyed; and the poor fisherman whose life from youth to old age had been one incessant round of toil and privation. Each met on an equality (at town meeting), which in any other town would have been impossible."

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

There has been a significant cost added from going alone as the world's policeman... Current administration is calling other nations on the carpet. But the failure of the UN and NATO to fulfill their original intentions lies with all nations, especially those who don't pull their own weight footing the bill.

UN has failed, NATO not so much, though the willingness of most NATO countries to contribute in manpower and material is lacking.

Originally Posted by DZ

It's a complicated issue which provides good talking points but no one ever really wants to tackle the problem. We've heard it all before, entitlement reform, cut military spending, time limit the welfare safety net, etc.

All these things are going to hurt someone.

I suspect nothing will ever be done.

True. All except for the last part. Something will be done, and the longer we go without doing something the more severe upon us it will be.

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Back when people united to do the right thing....

Even in 1806 (213 years ago), Marblehead's annual Town Meeting was a unique and special occasion. While Marbleheaders were... "Democratic at all times, and under all circumstances, they were especially so when in town meeting assembled. The wealthy merchant, proud of his aristocratic ancestry; the imperious captain, accustomed to the strict discipline of a ship, where he had but to command to be obeyed; and the poor fisherman whose life from youth to old age had been one incessant round of toil and privation. Each met on an equality (at town meeting), which in any other town would have been impossible."

Problem is, some people want pure democracy and want someone else to pay for it and do for it.

[PaulS]

Give extra funds to the IRS. Studies show we prob. miss collecting about $300B per year bc of a lack of enforcement.

[detbuch]

Greenspan says economy will slow down under growing entitlements:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...cid=spartanntp

So if the economy slows down and gets worse as entitlement money grows, what hope is there to bring down the national debt? Maybe "compassionate" stuff like federal funding of Special Olympics are a tipping point? Sarc.

But, maybe, if Uncle Sam left compassion to be practiced by the people and stuck to its constitutionally prescribed limitations, the debt could eventually be reduced instead of growing beyond the ability to be paid.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Let's hear some real solutions. No Obama, Bush, or Trump bashing. Both parties own this.

No partisanship.

How do we fix this? We are doing little if anything to reign this in. Twenty years ago the debt was around a trillion, now it is at 21 Trillion and in 10 years could be at 35 Trillion Dollars.

Don't know if we can QE out of this.

This video is a couple of years old but still applicable:

[detbuch]

similar to the solution in the above video, there is also Rand Paul's Penny Plan": https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/dr-...-budget’

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by detbuch

This video is a couple of years old but still applicable:

This should be required watching for Voters