Will the Rocket blast off into Cooperstown, or is the fuel been contaminated? - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

EarnedStripes44 · 12-14-2007, 12:01 PM

The storm is far from over, but how do you think this will effect his hall of fame prospects?

EarnedStripes44 · 12-14-2007, 12:09 PM

Voters need not decide for 5 years until after he has retired. That is going to be a heavy five years, in light of the allegations. I think the pickings are going to be slim his (Clemens) 1st time on the ballot. As far his sportmanship is concerned these past few years..... ohh, I don't know. Its tense....

chief10 · 12-14-2007, 12:22 PM

I'm sure he'll get in. maybe the hall of fame will put an addition on it for all the roid crew...like a juice bar..seperate them from the players who retired with honor. selig has his hands full. no doubt

Clogston29 · 12-14-2007, 12:29 PM

he'll get in. he wasn't alone. he played in the steroid era. he played against and with guys on steroids. that's how i think it'll be looked at down the road.

fishsmith · 12-14-2007, 12:35 PM

I wish this much effort went into real problems this county has.

It's good to see baseball players get the full attention and time of a US Senator, but cities and towns dealing with drug problems, get PSA's on Nickelodeon

MrHunters · 12-14-2007, 02:10 PM

remember the game where piazza broke his bat and clemens went psycho?

that when the report said he was juicing.

hmmm

The Dad Fisherman · 12-14-2007, 02:32 PM

I think he should get in only if He admits he Juiced......they wouldn't let Rose in because he wouldn't admit he Gambled.

I think if any of them wants a chance of getting in they should fess up....

Mike P · 12-14-2007, 04:23 PM

Here's how one writer explained it yesterday on a talk show:

He will vote for Bonds and Clemens because they would have got there without the juice.

He won't vote for McGwire because he wouldn't even be taken seriously for Cooperstown but for his steroid inflated numbers. Same for Palmeiro.

No matter how strong steroids made Clemens, he still had to have the stuff to get hitters out. Even if steroids gave you the 98 mph fastball, you still had to throw it with movement and with location, and be able to throw your off speed pitch for strikes.

afterhours · 12-14-2007, 05:06 PM

tell ya what- the big winner is baroid- he now has big name company. i hate this crap, i think most fans hold the game to an innocent set of standards from our early youth. cheaters suck in ALL walks of life.

Raider Ronnie · 12-14-2007, 05:22 PM

Who cares !!!

afterhours · 12-14-2007, 05:28 PM

i do.....

wrikerjr · 12-18-2007, 02:22 PM

why are they only doing this is baseball is the bigger question? I would like to see the same be done in all other sports. What makes baseball different

The real question that the Mitchell report doesn't address (besides they only went after all-stars) is who took HGH and who took Anabolic Steroids.

I hate to say it but some great players on some great teams have taken HGH, and we don't even clinch an eye. I have to say what is the difference between what some people on the Mitchell report different that your beloved Harrison did in 2004 and again in 2007???

I am not 100% positive that Clemens took anabolic steroids, is anyone here???

the lines are blurred, but its blurred for everyone

Mike P · 12-18-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrikerjr

The real question that the Mitchell report doesn't address (besides they only went after all-stars) is who took HGH and who took Anabolic Steroids.

Huh??

Half of the guys on there are people I never heard of, or guys who couldn't make an All Star team in Triple A.

And the excerpts that I've read did specify which drug the person used.

BassDawg · 12-20-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike P

Here's how one writer explained it yesterday on a talk show:

He will vote for Bonds and Clemens because they would have got there without the juice.

He won't vote for McGwire because he wouldn't even be taken seriously for Cooperstown but for his steroid inflated numbers. Same for Palmeiro.

No matter how strong steroids made Clemens, he still had to have the stuff to get hitters out. Even if steroids gave you the 98 mph fastball, you still had to throw it with movement and with location, and be able to throw your off speed pitch for strikes.

That's all good, Mike P

However, with pitchers I think that we will see a distinction that should be noted.

It seems to me that to achieve bulk, strength, speed, and enhanced performance there were and are hundreds of players (mostly power hitters, and those that needed a little something extra to make it to the BIGS) that injected the juice to get LARGE. Very easy to apply the eye test to, and more susceptible to demonstrations of roid rage.

Contrarily, in order to enhance one's endurance and recoverability it seems that the drug of choice is HGH. This avenue would be more pitcher friendly, though not exclusive to them as we have seen that its ability to boost one's rehab time is incredible, desirable even. It has also been alleged that HGH is required to help the structural parts of the body catch-up to the muscles and joints enlargement that takes place while one is on the juice. For pitchers, this HGH seems to be the Fountain of Youth. And if proven, could and should bring doubt to the legitimacy of the milestones the Rocket garnered while using PED's. For example, does anyone really think that he would've been pitching into his late 30's as effectively as he did without HGH?

The biggest difference i can see between the two is that one is developementally focused and the other is supplementally driven. They can be used together or separate, but if one was trying to avoid the more obvious bodily changes that anabolics bring upon one's frame, then the way to go would be with HGH as I understand it. Harder to detect, more subtle and less noticeable to the naked eye, and allows one to pitch into their 70's.................

BassDawg · 12-20-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Who cares !!!

Right!??

I think that while it is the hot ticket now, it will dissipate over time.

But, I'm with Don. Since Baseball is a more individual stats driven game, I think that we want a level playing field. My HR Champ is still Hammerin' Hank!! I do NOT acknowledge Baroid Bonds, and I wish his uncle, Say Hey Willie, would bitch slap the nape of his neck and the back of his baldhead and tell him to man-up and tell us the truth!

That's where we should take this if we want to fix this. How does this sound, gents? Grant the players and the rest of the principles involved ~immunity.

This allows for many things to occur, but primarily MLB can truely come clean. Oh it's gonna hurt at first as MLB will be totally implicated, Selig (the bumbling idiot) will be axed, trainers and drug peddlers will be removed, doctors will be allowed to come clean, chemists will be discovered, the SHADOW of secrecy that shrouds the Good guys and hides the Bad guys will be erased; but, at some point we can sincerely move our beloved game forward.

Once we bring this Roids Era completely into the light, without the threat of prosecution and possible jail time ~because once you do threaten to adjudicate everybody lawyers-up and the TRUTH disappears so that Reasonable Doubt can take over~ i think that you will find everyone involved more cooperative and more able to shift their focus on sending our children the right message and turning this game that we so cherish back to its level of respectability and "purity".

Lastly, with the prevelance of HGH permeating what is prolly ALL sports, are we seeing the new cortosone? Better living thru chemistry has its good and its bad. Could this be a good thing in the long run, or are its side effects so horrific??