EPA screwing contractors and homeowners

[nightfighter]

If you are going to be doing any remodeling on a home built before 1978, you have until April 22 to get the work done before a new regulation takes full effect. I figure this will add $200-600 cost to any project PER DAY! Have to go get certified and stock up on white one piece suits, plastic sheeting, and HEPA vacuums..... Government does not want small business.


http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/sbcomplianceguide.pdf

[Slipknot]

perfect timing with the economy in the tank

God Bless America

[Hooligans]

I know its true but I cant see anyone..
Who is not working in a facility who bitches about it
Would even bring it up if the home owner didnt
This would shut down at least a 1/3 of Painting contractors
And the home owners "would not pay the extra"
Unless you got some nervous new mom or something
It will be interesting to see if this just gos away

[Karl F]

of course, you are only referring to people that actually follow the rules, have insurance, license, pull permit, and pay taxes...
which encompasses the guys who are not working, or are very slow now...
does not apply to the guys in the white vans (with no signs) with ladder racks and passenger plates... and no papers...
them guys is busy, and i hear they work cheap too...

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Karl F

of course, you are only referring to people that actually follow the rules, have insurance, license, pull permit, and pay taxes...
which encompasses the guys who are not working, or are very slow now...
does not apply to the guys in the white vans (with no signs) with ladder racks and passenger plates... and no papers...
them guys is busy, and i hear they work cheap too...

ya you're right about that Big K ,and pretty soon they'll turn this country into a third world country, we already lost so much manufacturing to China.
If this country does not start exporting some product faster than we are importing illegals, we are all gonna need a hari kari button

keep buying walmart etc. crap and buy cheapest instead of made in America(which a lot of times is less money) and it won't be long.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Hooligans

I know its true but I cant see anyone..
Who is not working in a facility who bitches about it
Would even bring it up if the home owner didnt
This would shut down at least a 1/3 of Painting contractors
And the home owners "would not pay the extra"
Unless you got some nervous new mom or something
It will be interesting to see if this just gos away

We have a new building inspector that previously worked here in town as a general contractor. Was a good guy. Is now a ballbuster. We are expecting him to take on the enforcement on behalf of the EPA.... So if he goes to the course, he will be requiring us to set up Zip walls, exhaust fans, don the white suits to vac and pack all this "hazardous" material, suck the air out of the disposal bags before sealing, (because if it has air in the bag, it might burst in the landfill and release all that hazardous material...) Then there is the white glove wipe down that must be documented and recorded... Keep records for three years! The requirements are over the top! And the HEPA vacs aren't even made in America! This type of containment has been required in maybe 2% of all the work I have ever done.

Scott Brown, Congress, and the President should recognize that this will cost jobs and projects from being done. Another cash grab in my opinion, with minimal upside. The volume on this one is about to get turned up, because 90% of the trades don't even know about it yet.

[Hooligans]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Scott Brown, Congress, and the President should recognize that this will cost jobs and projects from being done. Another cash grab in my opinion, with minimal upside. The volume on this one is about to get turned up, because 90% of the trades don't even know about it yet.

I have been a self-employed tile setter for thirty years
And between cost of all my insurances comp/lyb
I can’t even think of what this might be like for painting contractors
Like you said "maybe 2%" might be a hazard
Then is it a complete gut or just changing trim around a replacement window

To make it sound like we are ripping out asbestos
Instead of just lead paint that we are "not" eating
Is just nuts!

I talked to a few contractors last night
They are just going to ignore it unless someone asks
The bottom line is the "market" is no way going to support the cost
Just another over reached blanket law that hurts "small" business

[Slipknot]

the government must want to regulate and red tape the country into bankruptcy
pathetic

who allows the EPA to do this stuff

I bet real estate agents won't be informing any prospective buyers about this if they have kids and the house is older than 1978

[nightfighter]

Just put a call into my Congressman, John Tierney. People answering phone in DC, and Peabody had not heard a thing about it. They were pretty surprised, so I expect I will hear back.

[Raven]

[nightfighter]

Bumping this up for those that missed it. And I heard back from none of my elected officials.... surprise, surprise. Taxes going up, regulatory requirements going up, and fines going up for the working man. $275 for the course, and $300 to register with the state.... Country's gone to hell..... Between this and the new OSHA requirements, the small businessman in the building trade is screwed. This will trickle down to every homeowner. Just another way to keep the construction industry from helping us get out of this crappy economy.

[likwid]

Small job lead abatement has never been worth it in the first place.

Friends just turned down a job at a church based on the ins costs along with the liability of the lead.
And they already have the equipment along with the workers trained in it.

[nightfighter]

This isn't lead abatement, this is remodeling, renovating, and painting.... Gotta do zip walls and white suits to do a single window replacement....

[sokinwet]

We have had to follow these reg's in HUD funded housing programs since 1998. Total BS...in most cases. Here's what I've seen in the programs I administer. In a community with 14,000+ homes built prior to 1978 last year's DPH stat's showed 2 children with elevated lead levels; 0 the yr. before. Costs for simple work will be astronomically higher. MA has very few lead safe renovators...not all are "good" contractors. Contractor costs for compliance, mandatory lead testing for employees and huge possible liability will be passed on to consumers. MA law is stricter than fed law and does not recognize fed's " interim controls",meaning known lead hazards in properties with kids <6 must be fully abated or you can end up in court. Our average cost for full abatement in properties exceeded 20K per unit and most projects require relocation of occupants! Lead is a serious issue in many areas but like everything else, the Fed's "one size fits all"approach creates more problems than it solves. My programs do very few rehab projects that "impact a painted surface" anymore. While the "notice"part of this can perhaps protect one kid who has imbeciles for parents, I predict the opt out provision for owners without kids & contractorswill be very popular.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

This isn't lead abatement, this is remodeling, renovating, and painting.... Gotta do zip walls and white suits to do a single window replacement....

And some dude does a halfassed job and someone gets cancer in the house/business/whatever and sues everyone from the paint company to the GC's helper.

That what you want?

[Slingah]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

We have had to follow these reg's in HUD funded housing programs since 1998. Total BS...in most cases. Here's what I've seen in the programs I administer. In a community with 14,000+ homes built prior to 1978 last year's DPH stat's showed 2 children with elevated lead levels; 0 the yr. before. Costs for simple work will be astronomically higher. MA has very few lead safe renovators...not all are "good" contractors. Contractor costs for compliance, mandatory lead testing for employees and huge possible liability will be passed on to consumers. MA law is stricter than fed law and does not recognize fed's " interim controls",meaning known lead hazards in properties with kids <6 must be fully abated or you can end up in court. Our average cost for full abatement in properties exceeded 20K per unit and most projects require relocation of occupants! Lead is a serious issue in many areas but like everything else, the Fed's "one size fits all"approach creates more problems than it solves. My programs do very few rehab projects that "impact a painted surface" anymore. While the "notice"part of this can perhaps protect one kid who has imbeciles for parents, I predict the opt out provision for owners without kids & contractorswill be very popular.

From what I understand the "opt out" was challenged by the Seirra Club and with not be included in the final RRP law on the 22nd. No opt out. Tell me I'm wrong....pleeeeeeeze.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by likwid

And some dude does a halfassed job and someone gets cancer in the house/business/whatever and sues everyone from the paint company to the GC's helper.

That what you want?

This is not about cancer, it's about lead poisoning in children under the age of six. Most elevated levels of lead in children is due to them ingesting the lead paint. I just don't understand your point......

[tattoobob]

I am going for my licence on April 12th
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Fly Rod]

Quit your belly-aching!

Just pass the cost onto the homeowner. Educate the home owner, when you go to a possible client explain the law and leave a booklet.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

the government must want to regulate and red tape the country into bankruptcy
pathetic

who allows the EPA to do this stuff

I bet real estate agents won't be informing any prospective buyers about this if they have kids and the house is older than 1978

Slip RE agents are required by law to do a lead disclosure with prospective buyers. The whole lead thing imo is the biggest friggen scam in the world. I had someone test for lead, they came with the radargun. Said I had lead in a certain area, so I got a do it your self test and found no lead there.

[TheSpecialist]

BTW I am low to moderate risk lead abatement certified, and half the crap in the class made no sense.

Which makes more lead dust, ripping out and replacing a door jamb, or rocking over a wall that has some loose plaster?

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Slip RE agents are required by law to do a lead disclosure with prospective buyers. The whole lead thing imo is the biggest friggen scam in the world. I had someone test for lead, they came with the radargun. Said I had lead in a certain area, so I got a do it your self test and found no lead there.

When it comes to real estate both the seller and the buyer are required to fill out the state and federal lead paint notification if the house was built prior to 1978. There is a loop hole for the seller and that is they can check off that it is Unknown to them of lead paint.

Also any property owner of rental properties must do the same in which a child under six years old lives. And if the owner fails to delead and a child is lead poisoned the property owner is strictly liable for all damages.

Property owner can not discriminate against a family of a child under six if they can afford the rent.

[buckman]

Here's a great write up on the ruling:

New EPA Lead Paint Rules Increase Renovation Costs &mdash;Professional tool reviews for the average Joe

And a portion of it,

"These new EPA rules are going to apply to buildings built prior to 1978 and will affect jobs ranging from full-blown renovations, down to simple window replacements and paint jobs. If the job covers more than 6 square feet - it's now regulated. Members of the National Association of Homebuilders (NAHB) estimate the added regulations will increase project costs anywhere from $500 to $1,500 for projects costing over $5,000. Of course, the EPA disagrees, feeling that these regulations will yield only a modest $35 increase per job.

And we wonder why the government gets into debt."

[buckman]

What's even dumber is the Gov. mandated lead be added to paint to begin with!!!

[nightfighter]

That is an excellent, well written article. Read it if you are a homeowner. As for those who think I am belly aching.... I am one who does not want to gouge the consumer by passing this "tax" on to them. It is wrong, for both the consumer and the contractors. And I am not afraid of standing up and saying so.......

[TheSpecialist]

[QUOTE]Our Workaround
We're always here to lend a hand. In an effort to reduce your costs and help you make the most out of your renovation dollar, we present this potential workaround. If you don't have children, or - like most sane people - plan to remove them during construction and clean well before reinserting them into your home, consider doing your own demolition.

That's right. Tear it out yourself. You're allowed to and there is no licensing required to do so.

Then, when you "suddenly" realize you are in over your head, invite several bids to complete the job once all the lead has been removed from your home and the work area is clean and ready for the construction process.

This public service announcement brought to you by the friendly Editorial Staff of Pro Tool Reviews.

/QUOTE]


Good solid advice right there. BY the way where do you think they get rid of the contaminated waste?

[gf2020]

This was passed over a year ago. It sure should not cost a 1 man shop $200-$600 per day to implement.

Also, look at the second part of this list. You can easily be exempt from the practice for owner occupied properties with no children in the house.

Training, Certification, and Work Practice Requirements– Effective after April 22, 2010.

• Firms must be certified.
• Renovators must be trained.
• Lead-safe work practices must be followed. Examples of these practices include:
• Work-area containment to prevent dust and debris from leaving the work area.
• Prohibition of certain work practices like open-flame burning and the use of power tools without HEPA exhaust control.
• Thorough clean up followed by a verification procedure to minimize exposure to lead-based paint hazards.

• The training, certification, and work practice requirements do not apply where the firm obtained a signed statement from the owner that all of the following are met:
• The renovation will occur in the owner’s residence;
• No child under age 6 resides there;
• No woman who is pregnant resides there;
• The housing is not a child-occupied facility; and
• The owner acknowledges that the renovation firm will not be required to use the work practices contained in the rule.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by gf2020

This was passed over a year ago. It sure should not cost a 1 man shop $200-$600 per day to implement.

Also, look at the second part of this list. You can easily be exempt from the practice for owner occupied properties with no children in the house.

Training, Certification, and Work Practice Requirements– Effective after April 22, 2010.

• Firms must be certified.
• Renovators must be trained.
• Lead-safe work practices must be followed. Examples of these practices include:
• Work-area containment to prevent dust and debris from leaving the work area.
• Prohibition of certain work practices like open-flame burning and the use of power tools without HEPA exhaust control.
• Thorough clean up followed by a verification procedure to minimize exposure to lead-based paint hazards.

• The training, certification, and work practice requirements do not apply where the firm obtained a signed statement from the owner that all of the following are met:
• The renovation will occur in the owner’s residence;
• No child under age 6 resides there;
• No woman who is pregnant resides there;
• The housing is not a child-occupied facility; and
• The owner acknowledges that the renovation firm will not be required to use the work practices contained in the rule.

I can only guess that you have not been certified or you are union. Take the course and you will sit ther stunned thinking this has to be a joke.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

That is an excellent, well written article. Read it if you are a homeowner. As for those who think I am belly aching.... I am one who does not want to gouge the consumer by passing this "tax" on to them. It is wrong, for both the consumer and the contractors. And I am not afraid of standing up and saying so.......

Don't ever work at a boat yard.
You'd CRY about how much BS the EPA has pulled on them.

[tattoobob]

Well I am now certified to remove lead paint