No mental health issue in america.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Number 8 for school shootings in 2018, over 200 school shootings since Sandy Hook, but we don't have any issues; move along. Our kids are disconnected, desensitized with violent video games and they come home to two working parents too tired to turn off the TV and social media to listen and hear.

Put that together with easy access to weapons of mass destruction and it's no wonder we are on this pace. I won't start the AR debate, since a semi auto pistol probably could do the same damage, but this troubled teen posted he was going to be a professional school shooter and nobody questions him or his parents?

Mental health is a big issue, tied to these shootings, the opioid epidemic, but let's fund the wall first; got to take care of campaign promises.

"Our kids are disconnected, desensitized with violent video games and they come home to two working parents too tired to turn off the TV and social media to listen and hear. "

Exactly, exactly. Our culture is sick, our moral compass is in need of repair. Parents aren't spending enough time with their kids.

" won't start the AR debate, since a semi auto pistol probably could do the same damage"

True, but these types of weapons have a sexy look, which fuels the fantasies of a small number of very sick folks.

"nobody questions him or his parents? "

This was a deeply disturbed kid who lost both of his adopted parents by the time he was 18.

This kid was so broken, that his high school determined he could not bring a backpack to school. He could not be trusted with a backpack, but he passes a background test to get an AR15? How the hell does that happen? We aren't even TRYING to protect our kids. This kid did everything but wear a sign saying "I am a mass murderer", and no one did anything.

We need a conversation about guns, about lousy parents, about the senseless violence we bombard our kids with (TV, video games, music) about endless access to the internet, and about being proactive about locking up the mentally ill, rather than waiting until after they snap.

Fortunately my senator Chris Murphy is out there on his soap box, saying that the gun caused this all by itself. Someone should ask Mr Murphy why gun crime is so low in the Dakotas, despite the fact that everyone owns guns. Instead of mocking those people by calling them bitter clingers and deplorable, maybe there is a valuable lesson to learn about they way they live and treat each other.

Good post GS.

Maybe we should also stop electing politicians based on how pretty or popular they are, and instead elect people who can solve problems.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Fortunately my senator Chris Murphy is out there on his soap box, saying that the gun caused this all by itself.

I take it the "Fortunately" part is sarcasm.
Sounds like a deranged individual to make a statement like that, even worse that he is a Senator.

Guns are no more responsible for school shootings than penises are responsible for rape.

We could go on all day with statistics, being angry about innocent people losing their lives and the evil that exists while blaming an inanimate object is counterproductive. Those murders are horrible, nothing can bring those people back, maybe vigilance can help prevent further shootings but impossible to prevent all.


The thing that bothers me most when this happens is the instant it happens , those with an agenda fall over themselves to be the first to spout off about further restricting law abiding people's rights that have been infringed upon over and over again with the same results, that is insane. These people we elect to government only want control and are willing to bankrupt the country to achieve it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

I take it the "Fortunately" part is sarcasm.
Sounds like a deranged individual to make a statement like that, even worse that he is a Senator.

Guns are no more responsible for school shootings than penises are responsible for rape.

We could go on all day with statistics, being angry about innocent people losing their lives and the evil that exists while blaming an inanimate object is counterproductive. Those murders are horrible, nothing can bring those people back, maybe vigilance can help prevent further shootings but impossible to prevent all.


The thing that bothers me most when this happens is the instant it happens , those with an agenda fall over themselves to be the first to spout off about further restricting law abiding people's rights that have been infringed upon over and over again with the same results, that is insane. These people we elect to government only want control and are willing to bankrupt the country to achieve it.

Yes the fortunately was sarcastic.

The gun is an inanimate object. But certain guns like the AR-15, unfortunately, do fuel the fantasies of a small number of deranged folks. We can’t pretend that’s not true. I’m not saying the gun is the sole cause, but in some cases, it is a contributing factor. Some people are turned on by these guns.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Yes the fortunately was sarcastic.

The gun is an inanimate object. But certain guns like the AR-15, unfortunately, do fuel the fantasies of a small number of deranged folks. We can’t pretend that’s not true. I’m not saying the gun is the sole cause, but in some cases, it is a contributing factor. Some people are turned on by these guns.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If there was no such thing as an AR-15 type, would slick looking hand guns (which are semi-automatic and can shoot at the same rate of speed as an AR15) fuel the fantasies of the deranged folks you speak of? If those folks kill because their fantasies are fueled by AR-15s, are we to assume they would not go on killing sprees if there were no AR-15s?

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

If there was no such thing as an AR-15 type, would slick looking hand guns (which are semi-automatic and can shoot at the same rate of speed as an AR15) fuel the fantasies of the deranged folks you speak of? If those folks kill because their fantasies are fueled by AR-15s, are we to assume they would not go on killing sprees if there were no AR-15s?

I'd think that to fire at that rate and hit anything at much distance would take a lot more skill with a handgun than an AR-15. But a big issue here is simply muzzle velocity, capacity and the ability for victims to survive. The AR-15 was designed for war, not hunting or home protection. This is the opinion of so many military leaders and veteran doctors. A high velocity wound is very deadly.

Handguns certainly have their own cool factor, but it doesn't seem to be much of an influence for the worst mass shootings.

As I've said before, shooting for sport is fun, hunting (most of it) is good and home defense is a real thing. Doesn't mean we need nearly instant access to near military grade weapons.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I'd think that to fire at that rate and hit anything at much distance would take a lot more skill with a handgun than an AR-15. But a big issue here is simply muzzle velocity, capacity and the ability for victims to survive. The AR-15 was designed for war, not hunting or home protection. This is the opinion of so many military leaders and veteran doctors. A high velocity wound is very deadly.

Handguns certainly have their own cool factor, but it doesn't seem to be much of an influence for the worst mass shootings.

As I've said before, shooting for sport is fun, hunting (most of it) is good and home defense is a real thing. Doesn't mean we need nearly instant access to near military grade weapons.

This doesn't answer my question to Jim. Now, if you're saying that if there were no AR-15s there would be no mass killings, that would be closer to an answer to my question.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

This doesn't answer my question to Jim. Now, if you're saying that if there were no AR-15s there would be no mass killings, that would be closer to an answer to my question.

That's just another rhetorical deke you're leaning towards. The "if you stop all of them you can't stop any of them" defense. It's a complex issue but to be paralyzed to any action because of political interests is really stupid.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

If there was no such thing as an AR-15 type, would slick looking hand guns (which are semi-automatic and can shoot at the same rate of speed as an AR15) fuel the fantasies of the deranged folks you speak of? If those folks kill because their fantasies are fueled by AR-15s, are we to assume they would not go on killing sprees if there were no AR-15s?

I don’t know what would happen if things were different. I only know that mass killings not related to terrorism, seem to be frequently carried out by these things. He didn’t pick a handgun. I wouldn’t say the gun caused this. But I’d bet every cent I have, that in some cases, it fuels the fantasy. And I’d be right. I never took a psychology class but I know I’m right. I don’t know that this truth suggests any public policy that addresses it. Im just stating something that I don’t think can be refuted. If there were no such thing as rifles, I’d bet that this guy and Adam Lanza would have done what they did.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don’t know what would happen if things were different. I only know that mass killings not related to terrorism, seem to be frequently carried out by these things. He didn’t pick a handgun. I wouldn’t say the gun caused this. But I’d bet every cent I have, that in some cases, it fuels the fantasy. And I’d be right. I never took a psychology class but I know I’m right. I don’t know that this truth suggests any public policy that addresses it. Im just stating something that I don’t think can be refuted. If there were no such thing as rifles, I’d bet that this guy and Adam Lanza would have done what they did.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Before AR-15's, the guns that existed, hand or rifle, held the fascination of deranged, as well as normal, men, especially young ones. You, personally, may be sure of yourself in your opinion. I'm not sure of your opinion. I remember a fascination with six shooter pistols being almost universal among young boys who, most of them, had fancy looking cap guns they got for Christmas or birthdays. Almost all of us had them, and we played shoot-em-up games with them. Cowboy movies and comic books and heroes from Tom Mix, to Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, and several others were models which we emulated. A lot of the guys had BB guns. Some acted dangerously, malevolently with them. Later, post-cowboy era, there were some neat hand-guns wielded by movie types like Dirty Harry. Clint Eastwood had a really cool long barrel six gun in his Spaghetti Western movies. There was a kind of reverence for the .44 Magnum among young guys because it was supposedly so powerful, almost God-like among guns. Even now there are a lot of really cool looking and highly effective as well as a great variety of hand guns that owners like to proudly show off and talk about how easily they handle and how accurate they are.

I agree with you that Lanza and this guy (and others) would have done what they did if there were no AR-15s. And this guy, apparently had bombs as well as other guns. Times are different in our society from what they were when I was a kid. And I don't think AR-15s are the reason for that difference.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

I'd think that to fire at that rate and hit anything at much distance would take a lot more skill with a handgun than an AR-15. But a big issue here is simply muzzle velocity, capacity and the ability for victims to survive. The AR-15 was designed for war, not hunting or home protection. This is the opinion of so many military leaders and veteran doctors. A high velocity wound is very deadly.

Handguns certainly have their own cool factor, but it doesn't seem to be much of an influence for the worst mass shootings.

As I've said before, shooting for sport is fun, hunting (most of it) is good and home defense is a real thing. Doesn't mean we need nearly instant access to near military grade weapons.

The Ruger Mini 14 (pic attached below) is more accurate than most AR15s and has been around a helluva lot longer.

The AR15 is like when we used to tune out Abu 6500 series reels - we'd would simply customize them how we woulds want.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don’t know what would happen if things were different. I only know that mass killings not related to terrorism, seem to be frequently carried out by these things. He didn’t pick a handgun. I wouldn’t say the gun caused this. But I’d bet every cent I have, that in some cases, it fuels the fantasy. And I’d be right. I never took a psychology class but I know I’m right. I don’t know that this truth suggests any public policy that addresses it. Im just stating something that I don’t think can be refuted. If there were no such thing as rifles, I’d bet that this guy and Adam Lanza would have done what they did.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

For some perhaps, but for most, the AR15 is a fine shooting, comfortable, customization rifle. Just a Swiss Army knife of a rifle for sport, fun, or even hunting

What we need to do is find a way to get the Adam Lanzas away from firearms.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Yes the fortunately was sarcastic.

The gun is an inanimate object. But certain guns like the AR-15, unfortunately, do fuel the fantasies of a small number of deranged folks. We can’t pretend that’s not true. I’m not saying the gun is the sole cause, but in some cases, it is a contributing factor. Some people are turned on by these guns.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'm sorry but guns do not fuel these fantasies.

We need to stop coddling our kids, teaching them that everyone wins and that everyone is good

Too many people in this country with good intentions parent with a hands off attitude. If you let the kid dress the part, they will act the part

Too many single parent households or households where both parents are working when the kids come home from school

Too many kids are taught to accept everyone, no matter what there style, what they like how the act, how they dress

Instead we should be teaching our kids things that could be a red flag. Its called street smarts. Tell a teacher or an adult if you think someone is acting threatening,or they are making you uncomfortable.

They interviewed kids after this shooting and they all said they knew he would do this

I am sure some of his friends knew he had a gun, knew he was unstable, knew it was him that made the YouTube video, but no one of them spoke out

How does the FBI who can get FISA warrants on false information not get a warrant to find out who the kid in the YouTube video was

Why didn't the school alert the authorities as to his dangerousness

Why was he let back on school grounds especially after being expelled from 3 different schools on three different occasions

It might be time in this country for public schools to go to a dress code so everyone looks the same,ban outlandish hair styles, make everyone on the same 0laying field so know one persons feelings get hurt.

Its time to have a serious conversation a out public schools and the security they use. Why are there no shootings in private or parochial schools?


I am sick of the lefts response to every shooting get serious because guns aren't going away. There are other amendments to the constitution that prohibit the taking of legally purchased goods that are later outlawed You can ban Assault Weapons but there are enough in circulation that you will never rid the country of them, nor should you want to because they aren't the problem

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

I'm sorry but guns do not fuel these fantasies.

We need to stop coddling our kids, teaching them that everyone wins and that everyone is good

Too many people in this country with good intentions parent with a hands off attitude. If you let the kid dress the part, they will act the part

Too many single parent households or households where both parents are working when the kids come home from school

Too many kids are taught to accept everyone, no matter what there style, what they like how the act, how they dress

Instead we should be teaching our kids things that could be a red flag. Its called street smarts. Tell a teacher or an adult if you think someone is acting threatening,or they are making you uncomfortable.

They interviewed kids after this shooting and they all said they knew he would do this

I am sure some of his friends knew he had a gun, knew he was unstable, knew it was him that made the YouTube video, but no one of them spoke out

How does the FBI who can get FISA warrants on false information not get a warrant to find out who the kid in the YouTube video was

Why didn't the school alert the authorities as to his dangerousness

Why was he let back on school grounds especially after being expelled from 3 different schools on three different occasions

It might be time in this country for public schools to go to a dress code so everyone looks the same,ban outlandish hair styles, make everyone on the same 0laying field so know one persons feelings get hurt.

Its time to have a serious conversation a out public schools and the security they use. Why are there no shootings in private or parochial schools?


I am sick of the lefts response to every shooting get serious because guns aren't going away. There are other amendments to the constitution that prohibit the taking of legally purchased goods that are later outlawed You can ban Assault Weapons but there are enough in circulation that you will never rid the country of them, nor should you want to because they aren't the problem

"I'm sorry but guns do not fuel these fantasies. "

And you'd know this how?

These guns don't perform much differently from other, more boring-looking guns. But the AR-15 is extremely popular. It's partly because of the look.

"Too many single parent households or households where both parents are working when the kids come home from school"

Agreed 100%. A hundred percent. My wife hasn't worked in 7 years, it has been a disaster for our net worth (most of our vacations are camping and we drive old cars), but I wouldn't do it differently. I was at a cub scour trip to a local fire station last night, and you could se these out-of-control 8 year-olds, whose parents could not stop them from behaving terribly.

"Why didn't the school alert the authorities as to his dangerousness"

Bingo. The school would not let this kid have a backpack, yet he was able to get an AR-15. That is insane. If we couldn't spot the red flags this kid was putting up, we aren't doing anything to stop anybody.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Some people are turned on by these guns.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you mean to say some people are turned on by the POWER the gun has. I doubt it is actually the gun itself.