Badminton scandle...what did they do wrong? - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Saltheart · 08-02-2012, 05:40 PM

I don't see the fairness in the way the badminton players are getting crucified. The swimmers certainly take less than wins in their qualifying rounds. In fact its an openly discussed strategy for them to take even 4th to save energy for later finals.

The way the badminton prelims are set up , what's so different about coasting in a match that is not only meaningless to lose but in fact will penalize you if you win. I just don't see why those girls are getting the shaft.

Again a big screw up by the organizers and its the athletes ,who's whole careers are jaded now, paying the price.

There seem to be more screwed up things going on at these Olympics than I can ever remember before.

BigFish · 08-02-2012, 06:26 PM

All set with the Olympics! Too much drama really and who needs it!!! Not much fun anymore. Could do away with the Olympics for all I care!!

Raven · 08-02-2012, 06:41 PM

while we're at it....
let's boot the Kenyans out of the Boston Marathon.

BigFish · 08-02-2012, 06:52 PM

Raven · 08-02-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Why?

they took the fun out of it...

they always win.... no longer a contest

BigFish · 08-02-2012, 07:21 PM

Should just ban the Yankees from MLB then cause' who the heck wants to do battle against the best???

Mike P · 08-02-2012, 08:56 PM

I think there's a big difference between coasting in a qualifying heat (after all, you still have to beat the 3 who finished ahead of you in the final) and deliberately tanking matches to get to play a lower seed in the quarters or semis.

The Dad Fisherman · 08-03-2012, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Should just ban the Yankees from MLB then cause' who the heck wants to do battle against the best???

Where do I send my Donation? I'd be all for that.

Saltheart · 08-03-2012, 10:48 AM

The "Olympic Spirit" they keep siting is that they should try to win all the time. Philosophically I agree with that. The problem is that in the Olympics , the definition of winning is winning medals , not winning each individual contest. If in order to "WIN" (get a medal) the system dictates that losing an individual contest provides the best route to a medal , then why not do it.

I think the bottom line is that the system that makes it advantageous to take a dive is at fault , not the players or coaches who decide that the best way to win a medal within the system is to win or lose in the early rounds to get favorable seeding into the medals rounds. Its a real shame for the girls who trained their whole lives for the chance at an Olympic medal and then get put into such a tight spot by some rules committee with their heads up their butts.

Duke41 · 08-03-2012, 11:24 AM

check out the bike race today.. "crash".

Saltheart · 08-03-2012, 07:22 PM

Finally saw the reports on that Duke.

Now the Brits cheated in the bicycle race. The guy falls down at the start of the race.The reports say he stated that he fell on purpose to force a restart. He further stated that it was their teams plan all along to fall and force a restart if their team got off to a bad start.

Rewind....9 hours later the Olympic Committee then says the guy recants his story and says that he fell by accident...????? That he had made a mistake in his original story because he doesn't speak good english.

And we're supposed to believe that???

Oh man , after what they did to the Badminton People they let this go??? Host country and all.... you know..... its all jolly good now. WOW! What a tangled web we do weave when first we learn to decieve!!

mosholu · 08-03-2012, 08:29 PM

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

mosholu · 08-03-2012, 08:31 PM

The story given by the badminton officials was that the fans paid to see matches that were competitive and tanking matches were a rip off to the spectators. I think the English team should have given back the medal because it certainly was not in the spirit of the games.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence · 08-04-2012, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosholu

The story given by the badminton officials was that the fans paid to see matches that were competitive and tanking matches were a rip off to the spectators. I think the English team should have given back the medal because it certainly was not in the spirit of the games.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think there are some differences. Certainly the badminton teams appeared to be intentionally trying to lose to gain an advantage.

The track cycling crash is a little less clear. It certainly wasn't illegal...track bikes are really unstable and the provision is made to ensure a clean race. The race officials have the ability to relegate the rider if they don't believe the crash was unintentional, which they didn't do. From what I've read the rider was wobbly right out of the gate.

While the interview admission does seem odd, intentionally crashing in front of your entire team seems incredibly risky.

They're talking about firming up the rules here but I don't know what else they can do. The race officials already have the right to relegate.

-spence

Mike P · 08-04-2012, 10:57 AM

Coasting in a qualifying heat has absolutely zero effect on the outcome of an event. The same 4 qualifiers move on to the next round regardless of whether they give max effort. Not a single one of the top competitors gives max effort, all the time, in qualifying heats. Not even in an event as short as the 100 meter dash---if Bolt is ahead at 70 yards in a heat, he'll ease off in the last 30. You don't want to leave your best effort in the pool or on the track in a heat--you want it there in the final. Or even worse, in a track sprint, pull a muscle and not be able to race the next round.

Tanking to get to play a lower seed is way different. Especially in team events, which are usually conducted on a round-robin basis. You play a certain number of games in the qualifier, and the top half of the bracket moves on to the medal rounds. You're a team that's already locked up a spot in the medal round. You're seeded to face Opponent X if you win the last game in a round-robin tourney, and Opponent X presents match-up problems, whereas you match up better with Opponent Y, who'll you play if you lose the last game. Tanking the last game to play Y instead of X can affect the outcome of the event. That's why they landed hard on the Chinese.

Saltheart · 08-04-2012, 12:17 PM

It wasn't just China. 3 teams were doing it and got the ax from the Olympic committee. it involved 8 players from the 3 countries. . China , South Korea and Indonesia. China who had the 1 and 2 seeds is most talked about because it likely caused the lose of the gold and silver medals.

The big problem accurred when twice , two teams attemting to lose played eachother. Apparently both were trying not to win and it became obvious.

Now to me if a single team is doing it you could blame that team but when 3 seperate teams do it , its obviously qa desireable strategy within the existing rules. They were not kicked out do to rules violations. They were kicked out for violating the nebulous "Olympic Spirit" which IMO can be argued differently than winning every match. The Olympic Spirit in these times is to win medals. That's what they were trying to do.

Now if 3 teams are interpreting the rules one way , then the rules are flawed , not the teams and certainly not the individual players.

The cycling thing is IMO 10 times worse. People get hurt often and seriously when a biker falls. Often one falls and takes down several others. The strategy of falling on purpose to force a restart so your team gets a second chance at getting a favorable start is IMO outright cheating.

Just one more reason why the rules need to be simple. In the bike thing , it seenms to me that if you are the one who falls down , you should be out , no restart. If someone else falls and takes you out in the process , then you should get to restart.

In the badminton , keep it simple. You have a single elimination set up. You win you move forward , you lose , you go home. Its done everywhere from little leagues to bar room pool tournies. No incentive to lose that way!

spence · 08-04-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltheart

Just one more reason why the rules need to be simple. In the bike thing , it seenms to me that if you are the one who falls down , you should be out , no restart. If someone else falls and takes you out in the process , then you should get to restart.

Well, had the officials thought he fell on purpose they would have relegated the rider and restarted the race which IMO is the right thing to do.

The idea of no restart on the track would be a bit harsh. Even under the best conditions riders still slip and fall.

Ultimately, it's like an infielder blocking a soccer ball with their hands rather than the opponent score a goal. Sure, it's a red card but the history books only care about the win.

-spence

Saltheart · 08-04-2012, 01:30 PM

Runners fall down regularly. When they do , they are out , even harsher , anyone they they take down with them when they fall is out. Now they are not eliminated in that they can get up and continue running again (absent lane violations , etc) but its so hard to catch up they are essentially eliminated. Why are bikes different?

One thing I hated is in the speed skating . It seems like some bottom rung skater waits till his teams best guy is in front of him then he goes down and purposely wipes out everyone behind and to the side of him. So I guess restarts are in some way a good idea for those taken out by someone else who falls but if you fall down on your own , be it bikes , skates or runners , you should be eliminated whether you fell by accident or on purpose. Only if you got taken down as a secondary event to someone elses fall should you be allowed a restart.