Gun Owners.. Ball is in your court

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by spence

Please tell me about these stats.

Please tell me why 41,000 people deemed their lives hopeless.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

They don't work that way Ross. All totalled the 2013 suicides were 41,149. Of those 10,062 were suffocation related and 6,637 were poison related. I wonder why they don't include heroine overdoses as suicides..another 10,000+ deaths were DUI related. Where's the push to ban cars or booze? Those are just 2013 stats. Now why was the suicide rate so high ? People were obviously bothered and felt there was no way out. But they choose to blame the inanimate object again to suit their needs. They thrive on skewed stats.
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How many DUI related deaths were intentional?

How often has a car been intentionally used as a weapon at all?

Do cars have other uses beyond killing people?

A gun at rest is an inanimate object, when a person is pulling the trigger...as you well know...is quite active.

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by spence

How many DUI related deaths were intentional?

How often has a car been intentionally used as a weapon at all?

Do cars have other uses beyond killing people?

A gun at rest is an inanimate object, when a person is pulling the trigger...as you well know...is quite active.

The end result is the same. Other uses ? Ty and I went to the range today shot 700 rounds from killy Glocks, not one person was injured.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

The end result is the same. Other uses ? Ty and I went to the range today shot 700 rounds from killy Glocks, not one person was injured.
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Well, at least with your non sequitur I can't accuse you of skewing statistics.

[nightfighter]

Spence, your debate tactic, again, dissolves into questions that add nothing to subject, yet turn the discussion toward impasse with little to be accomplished. You are as polished as our elected politicians that work so effectively for the common good.......

[tysdad115]

I saw that Ross, I'd just like to know why 41K+ decided to end their own lives,not the devices they used to do so.
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[tysdad115]

Of the 32,719 motor vehicle deaths in 2013 10k were DUI related,the other 22k happened because a person got in the vehicle and operated it...clearly it isn't the cars fault.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

Of the 32,719 motor vehicle deaths in 2013 10k were DUI related,the other 22k happened because a person got in the vehicle and operated it...clearly it isn't the cars fault.
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Ok, by that logic how many of the 30k gun deaths are year were accidents? Hint, it's posted above.

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by spence

Ok, by that logic how many of the 30k gun deaths are year were accidents? Hint, it's posted above.

And again. How many would happen if the person didn't initiate it? Your argument is deflated, if guns kill people so do cars,busses,airplanes ,hammers, bats etc..
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[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

...clearly it isn't the cars fault.
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To be fair.... there were some GMs and Toyotas that would fit that bill.....

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

To be fair.... there were some GMs and Toyotas that would fit that bill.....

Lol...ban them too!!! It's for the children !
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[Slipknot]

Nice little discussion you have here

since the ball is in gun owners court I'll have to ask, when will non gun owners admit that a gun is a tool?

I don't have any NRA BS , so I won't respond with any

I would have prevented the shooters from getting guns first by voting and electing a government that passed laws with common sense and did not knee jerk react to tragedies, second - the more armed citizens, the better. I'd rather be able to protect myself and my family than have Hajji cut my head off, my brother prevented eminent harm to himself by being armed once and I am glad he had his license to carry because I certainly would not have liked to have been one of 6 carrying him a few days later.

The way the problem is getting worse is, because we have a president who chose to politicize the latest. I think the media should not even name the shooters in these instances, glorifying them makes matters worse and causes myself to consider carrying some protection. There are lots of weirdos out there and I for one do not intend to be a victim.

I hope that answers it.

and I hope anti gun people can admit that a gun is a tool.

[PaulS]

I got a lot of that from an article by Nicholas Kristof that I just read prior to logging on.

Since 1970 there have been more deaths by guns than in all of our wars. 1.4 million deaths. 60% of those where by suicide. Studies have shown that if a gun was not available, many of those would have been avoided (other studies have shown if you prevent someone from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge those people don't try again).
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[blondterror]

I posted this to spur discussion because I thought the frequency of these incidents was disturbing most people in the US. We are the outliers in the world when it comes to these incidents and we have more guns in peoples hands than other countries.

Yes .. there is always room for improvement on applying the current Laws. Get the NRA to focus on its roots... gun safety and training... not a lobby arm for the Gun industry. You guys are all drinking the kool aid of the gun mfg lobbists not the real sportman that started the NRA.


If you cannot get on board to make it more difficult to procure guns than you have serious blinders on. Even the recent Oregon killer's Dad said he was very surprised that his son was able to get all those firearms legally.

More guns are directly proportional to more deaths no matter whose math you use. Even people who lock their guns in home safes occasionally forget to lock them or just the presence of guns in the house causes activity that leads to violence... this evidence is also well documented.

The current trajectory of violence in the US is the issue.... and more guns is NOT the answer.

I for one would propose that all personal handguns should be stored at Sportsman firing ranges where they are used. Automatic weapons are for military use only and have no business to be sold to civilians.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by blondterror

I for one would propose that all personal handguns should be stored at Sportsman firing ranges where they are used. Automatic weapons are for military use only and have no business to be sold to civilians.

criminals would love that Chris not happening but I see the point
better background checks would surely help
I am not opposed to making it harder for unfit persons to obtain a gun.

this country has a social problem
education can only go so far
where is the moral compass?
the media whores need to take some accountability here

[tysdad115]

Stored at clubs ? Sure let's have every criminal keep theirs there too. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

Stored at clubs ? Sure let's have every criminal keep theirs there too. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet.
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makes perfect sense.....I've always said...the best way to prevent violent gun crime is to lock up the hand guns of law abiding gun owners at shooting ranges...problem solved

also read this today...not sure how accurate but from a pretty reliable writer

"A fully automatic weapon legally owned by a civilian has not been used in a murder in modern history. Those .50-caliber rifles that California was so obsessed about a few years back have, so far as the statistics show, never been used in a murder in that state, though one — one — was among the weapons used in a 1995 murder in Colorado. Ordinary criminals use ordinary guns."

[blondterror]

Andy... you sure have all the answers. I do not believe anything claim...

here is more accurate info on suicides by guns

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/op...smtyp=cur&_r=0

I asked you guys to think and all you do is spout forth the same BS what are your original thoughts to stop the problem.. why not better gun control

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by blondterror

Andy... you sure have all the answers. I do not believe anything claim...

here is more accurate info on suicides by guns

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/op...smtyp=cur&_r=0

I asked you guys to think and all you do is spout forth the same BS what are your original thoughts to stop the problem.. why not better gun control

The problem is people Chris. Everyone wants to blame something , they should look in the mirror. Funny thing is from my side you're "spouting the the same BS".. I'll openly invite any member here to come along to the range. I'll supply the fun and training . I'd be happy to show anyone how much fun it can be.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by blondterror

Andy... you sure have all the answers. I do not believe anything claim...

here is more accurate info on suicides by guns

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/op...smtyp=cur&_r=0

I asked you guys to think and all you do is spout forth the same BS what are your original thoughts to stop the problem.. why not better gun control

what are your original thoughts?

define better gun control...

your solution is to lock the guns of law abiding citizens in a shooting range....how will that reduce gun crime in Chicago?

[nightfighter]

Chris,
Would you consider going through the process of getting a license to carry and purchase of a handgun to see what we have already gone through here in Mass? It is not perfect, but they don't hand them out, and I would expect you would be surprised to see how much time it takes to do it all legally. Mass. Ct, NY, and NJ are among the most regulated states in this area.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by blondterror

Andy... you sure have all the answers. I do not believe anything claim...

here is more accurate info on suicides by guns

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/op...smtyp=cur&_r=0

I asked you guys to think and all you do is spout forth the same BS what are your original thoughts to stop the problem.. why not better gun control

is this now a suicide issue? if you think reducing or restricting guns will solve suicides there is no evidence of this elsewhere...Japan has twice the suicide rate as the US and guns are scarce there and where they enjoy the lowest gun homicide rate in the world....South Korea has gun-control laws so strict almost all guns are illegal; the few available hunting rifles must be “stored at police stations” when not in use. Handguns are practically non-existent and “advertising guns or ammunition is banned.” But while shooting incidents “are rare,” South Korea has the highest suicide rate in the developed world according to the World Health Organization.

many European nations(Hungary, Poland, France, Belgium, and Austria) with stricter gun control have higher rates and we're on a par with other countries with strict gun control...Australia has seen a drop in suicides that some like to attribute to gun legislation but the drop was occurring for 10 years prior to the 1996 and non-firearm suicides spiked immediately after the buy back..the UK has seen an increase and is on a par with the US despite strict gun laws...someone who is determined to injure themselves or others will find a way...taking away a mode does not curb the intent

[tysdad115]

At what point do we blame the people for their own actions? Not one response yet.
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[tysdad115]

I'll end with this tonight...in this bat#^&#^&#^&#^& crazy world we live in I seriously hope no one is ever in a situation where they wished someone with a firearm was there, some people choose to call and hope someone with a gun gets there in time. Others choose not to have to but either way its your choice. My choice is not yours to change.
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

I'll end with this tonight...in this bat#^&#^&#^&#^& crazy world we live in I seriously hope no one is ever in a situation where they wished someone with a firearm was there, some people choose to call and hope someone with a gun gets there in time. Others choose not to have to but either way its your choice. My choice is not yours to change.
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Son it might be. One call to a psychologist to give you some head shrinking and he could seem you unfit to own fire arms.
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[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Son it might be. One call to a psychologist to give you some head shrinking and he could seem you unfit to own fire arms.
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I understand, if only those who need it would go see one...me? I'm just perfect!!!

[ecduzitgood]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ass-shootings/
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[afterhours]

first and foremost i am a gun owner, have been most of my life. the thoughts i have concerning guns are my own - not influenced by nra or nobama and co.
my idea of gun control may be in line with some others here.
- tighter gun shop regs, and none of those walk in/walk out with a gun shows.
- must tighter background checks, including mental health and violence issues
-mandatory long jail time for possession of illegal guns- say 5-10 years
-longer jail time for use of illegal guns in criminal activity - say 10-20 years
-if guns are stolen or missing incident must be reported asap
-gun buyback programs in at risk areas for real $ not 50 -100 per, more like 500+ per that will get some peoples attention. the way our govt slings cash that would be minuscule.
- don't eff with the rights of law abiding gun owners. you may need one someday.

[spence]

Some good points here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/op...smtyp=cur&_r=0

[tysdad115]

Good points to you, not to others. We can find contradicting evidence to both sides of our opinions. My opinion is the NY Times is liberal bias trash.