Anti-American/Unpatriotic

[scottw]

sounds like a lot of guys are wearing their Che Guevara tees today

Dad, I felt that I answered your question, you wanted to know if I felt that a military member holding marxist views and I said yes, after a lifetime spent in a military town and still surround by neighbors and friends, family both former and current military I can tell you that the next military member that I meet will a marxist belief system will be the first
The comment about the party and financial backers forcing Marxism on us was based on two candidates promising huge expansions of government and backers like George Soros who are happily admited enemies of the capitalist system and himself an unabashed Marxist, read one of his books ...

the Democrat candidates have left little doubt that they intend to bring about "change" in the form of a huge central government, their words, not mine....

if we are to descend into a nation of wholesale government dependence ...I consider that very un-American...but hey, that's a Marxist's dream...forgive me for my critical thinking...and once again, Happy May Day

[The Dad Fisherman]

See, I don't feel you answered the question I asked....you answered the spin you put on the Question I asked.

Originally Posted by scottw

Dad, I felt that I answered your question, you wanted to know if I felt that a military member holding marxist views and I said yes,

This was the question I asked....and all it needs is a one word answer Yes OR No.....you know Black OR White

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

So what you're saying is that you don't support any of the troops in Iraq or Afghanistan if they are registered Democrats, because they are supporting a Marxist Ideaology and therefore are Unpatriotic and Anti- American.

[OnTheLedge]

Originally Posted by scottw

sounds like a lot of guys are wearing their Che Guevara tees today
....The comment about the party and financial backers forcing Marxism on us was based on two candidates promising huge expansions of government and backers like George Soros who are happily admited enemies of the capitalist system and himself an unabashed Marxist, read one of his books ...

I don't know mujhviuefi....oops my Che Guevara beret fell onto the keyboard. I don't know much about George Soros, so I did a Wikipedia search (Not a definitive source, but it's a start).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

No mention of communism, socialism or Marxism. It does say that he supported the Solidarity movement in Poland, which defeated the socialist government there. It also says he made his fortune trading in capital markets, stocks etc. He hardly sounds like one of the "happily admited enemies of the capitalist system and himself an unabashed Marxist," Again...you're long on labels and short on facts.

[scottw]

Robert, I did the same thing a long time ago, big philanthropist right? just check out one of his books and the organizations that he funds and his convictions

posted previously:
hey Spence, just so we're straight, I love talking politics because it one of the very few things that get people worked into a lather over things that they can do absolutely nothing about, my best customers are big libs and I have a ball making their eyes turn red because they really know, deep down that they are wrong...the leftys have very little sense of humor and an even shorter fuse...probably a result of knowing that they are way overmatched intellectually which is why they target the lowest common denominator....so please never get upset over things that I say, you'd like me, you really would...I'm really a fun guy and I hope that you can get out and find some fish this weekend, Scott



I'll consider this a raging success

[The Dad Fisherman]

Now where's that Donkey Smiley again?

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

hey Spence, just so we're straight, I love talking politics because it one of the very few things that get people worked into a lather over things that they can do absolutely nothing about, my best customers are big libs and I have a ball making their eyes turn red because they really know, deep down that they are wrong...the leftys have very little sense of humor and an even shorter fuse...probably a result of knowing that they are way overmatched intellectually which is why they target the lowest common denominator....so please never get upset over things that I say, you'd like me, you really would...I'm really a fun guy and I hope that you can get out and find some fish this weekend, Scott

Sorry, I've been out working to keep that GDP up.

The notion that you get excited making your customers squirm seems like a very odd comment to make.

I don't think you ever answered my question by the way.

-spence

[OnTheLedge]

Originally Posted by scottw

... my best customers are big libs and I have a ball making their eyes turn red because they really know, deep down that they are wrong...the leftys have very little sense of humor and an even shorter fuse...probably a result of knowing that they are way overmatched intellectually... :

I do so have a sense of humor....This made me laugh!

[spence]

Originally Posted by Robert

I do so have a sense of humor....This made me laugh!

Yea, have you noticed how the very same people who insist Liberals are elitist snobs are so quick to regard Liberals as stupid?

Like, I thought the Liberals ran all the universities? I could go ask the folks at Bob Jones University as it's not far from where I am today, although as I'm wearing a pink shirt I probably should avoid that part of town.

-spence

[scottw]

feelin' the love now! Dad, not avoiding you, you just seem determined to have me tell you that any servivce member that's registered democrat is unpatriotic and that's not what I've suggested, this is about ideaology, not affiliation, some of you only pick out the parts that you want, then attack with , McCain is going to enjoy huge support from dems that realize that their party is swung so far to the left that they hardly recognize it, there are 20% of the voters for hill and o that claim they'll vote for him if their guy gets the boot and then there's the the freakshow that will be the Democratic Convention

I really don' know how to respond to all of this fan mail except to say this...it's real simple

one party stands for, is currently guided by Marxist principles of massive dependence on government, they've never made it as clear as they do now, I believe that this is in direct opposition with the prnciples that this country was founded on and that it is UN-AMERICAN...even prior to the slow down of the economy local, state and the federal government are struggling to deal with obligations, both current and unfunded future obligations, I believe the estimate for unfunded federal obligations over the next 25 years is 54trillion, think about that, if you are a Marxist your solution is to soil and trash American industry, corprations and current systems in place to the degree that you create enough outrage, real or whipped up to gain approval for more and bigger government solutions... sound familiar??? election of either of these two democrat candidates will result in massive expansion of government in the lives of every American whether that means providing you services whether you like it or not or taking more of the money that you work to earn in order to pay for their bloated socialits dream.."YEAH, BUT SCOTT...BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED, PATRIOT ACT TOOK AWAY MY FREEDOM"....shut the f#%$ up...name one liberty or freedom that any one of you has actually lost under the partiot act....

didn't think so..
still waiting for anyone to name one or two of histories great Marxists and their benevolent contributions to our world

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Robert

I do so have a sense of humor....This made me laugh!

I'm glad ya liked it Robert, it was meant to be funny, Spence is my buddy...pointless to have these discussions then be angry since none of us have any actual ability to do much about it, my customers and I will yell at each other regarding politics and then they'll cut me a check and give me a hug, you realize that the pundints and pols that scream at each other on tv are clinking beer bottles back stage afterward....then it's very interesting to me to see how folks feel, so much can shape a world view, I really believe that if folks can get together like this with clearly differing views and let it all out without actually slugging it out it can be very productive, I've learned a lot just in this small exchange but I really hope we're not cutting into anyone's fishing...PEACE

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

I've suggested, this is about ideaology, not affiliation, some of you only pick out the parts that you want, then attack with , McCain is going to enjoy huge support from dems that realize that their party is swung so far to the left that they hardly recognize it,

The Dem party is no further to the left than it was under Clinton. You're just regurgitating talking points meant to associate anti-Bush rhetoric with the mainstream. Rhetoric that's shared in a less virul way by many if not most independent voters as it's rooted in very real incompetent and corrupt policy decisions.

one party stands for, is currently guided by Marxist principles of massive dependence on government, they've never made it as clear as they do now, I believe that this is in direct opposition with the prnciples that this country was founded on and that it is UN-AMERICAN...

"One party" huh?

This assertion, which I might add seems to be the bedrock of your entire argument is simply just wrong.

Both parties behave in a manner that inflates the size of government, but only one party is honest about it. The Republicans who have controled the House and Executive Office for the good part of the last 14 years have done little to seek guidance from the founding fathers and instead have made corporations dependent on the teets government, all in the name of shareholder value. The net is a middle class subsidizing 100 Million dollar paydays for the priveleged few.

YQUOTEEAH, BUT SCOTT...BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED, PATRIOT ACT TOOK AWAY MY FREEDOM"....shut the f#%$ up...name one liberty or freedom that any one of you has actually lost under the partiot act....

What a hypocritical thing to say. Go read your own posts and reevaulate this statement.

still waiting for anyone to name one or two of histories great Marxists and their benevolent contributions to our world

By your definition I'd thankfully add FDR to the list.

-spence

[OnTheLedge]

Originally Posted by scottw

I'm glad ya liked it Robert, it was meant to be funny, Spence is my buddy...pointless to have these discussions then be angry ......I've learned a lot just in this small exchange but I really hope we're not cutting into anyone's fishing...PEACE

I enjoyed it too.....but I'm done. I'm going back to my lurkdom.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

this is about ideaology, not affiliation,

Then why did YOU bring up party affiliation....that is where I've been going with this. You made a statement that, in your own words was "Black and White" Democrats Support Marxist ideas.

I'm just looking to see if there is any "Gray Area" here....obviously there is

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I'm just looking to see if there is any "Gray Area" here....obviously there is

There certianly is gray, ScottW just has a massive rounding error in his math.

Take for example Tammy Duckworth, a major in the National Guard who left both her legs in Iraq only to return home and run as a Democrat for the US House.

What was she fighting for?

-spence

[boot man]

You just have to love freedom of speech and freedom of press. It's as American as you can get.

It allows a windbag to denounce anyone who does not share the same point of view as dumber, a marxist, a fascist, whatever you want to categorize people as.

Even moreso, it allows he who shouts loudest, more often, or uses bigger vocabulary to proclaim himself the victor. Hip-hip-huzzah!

Political debates are similar to religious debates. No matter what is said or done, there is ZERO chance that the opposing party will change their point of view.

Who am I? Why am I here? I guess I was somewhat offended by being called UnAmerican and Unpatriotic. Being called dumber, never bothered me. i'm used to it.

I'm going back to looking for tips and amusement.

[RIJIMMY]

I disagree, thoughful debate will always get me to re-think my stance on any issue.

[scottw]

"For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American

one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto, this time it will work because it will be better funded and smarter, more "ENLIGHTENED" folks will be implementing it .."

OK Dad, there they are, I was pretty clear in the first paragraph...Marx/Mao

second...party run and funded(I'm adding this because I clarified later- George Soros et.al) by folks who would love to shove Marxism...

never said all dem's are Marxists...got it? still love ya...

Spence, I think Joe Lienerman might strongly disagree that the party has now swerved way left...

look, this is a political forum right? it would be kinda boring if we all agreed on everyhting and the Enlightened among us wouldn't get to excercise the muscle of their giant brains by pummeling a know- nothing like me into submission right? think of me as your personal trainer for your brain...I feel bad for some of you with all of that anger and frustration built up inside, didn't take much to poke the volcano..

I've stated that I believe that Marxism and the slavery to a government that it requires is baaaaaaad....

I believe that the massive expansion of the government nanny state being promised by both dem candidates has it's roots in Marxist theory...

I believe that this is in direct opposition to the principles that this country was founded on and by that standard unpatriotic and un-American..

call me what you will, does that really sound that radical?

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

call me what you will, does that really sound that radical?

Considering your inability to regard the middle, where most Americans would position themselves, as having a legitimate claim to the substance of America...

Yes.

-spence

[scottw]

"We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name - liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names - liberty and tyranny." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Address at Sanitary Fair, Baltimore, Maryland" (April 18, 1864), p. 301-302.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Considering your inability to regard the middle, where most Americans would position themselves, as having a legitimate claim to the substance of America...

Yes.

-spence

Spence, are you claiming the middle?