To strip or not to strip????? - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

BobT · 07-19-2005, 06:32 PM

I have 13” exposure cedar shake siding on my house and I want to go to 7” exposure vinyl cedar shake siding. One contractor told me to strip the old siding off and 2 others said that it’s no problem to build out the windows and doors and side over the old stuff. There is no rot or insect problem with the old stuff. OK pro’s…..what should I do. It’s about $1400 to strip. Not really worried about the strip price but I want it done right.
Thanks

Slingah · 07-19-2005, 06:47 PM

if no rot....why go over good cedar with vinyl???

spence · 07-19-2005, 06:49 PM

I'd strip it, houses that have two layers of shingles tend to look like houses with two layers of shingles

-spence

BigFish · 07-19-2005, 07:01 PM

Siding sucks!!! But if you are going to desecrate yer house I would strip it.....bugs and bees make nests under the shingles....eventually they will dry and the house will be a tinder box if it ever catches fire! Strip it!

teaser · 07-19-2005, 10:40 PM

I tell my customers to strip it off, there's no good reason to go over it.

If you do go over it then you have to pad out all of the window and door casings, more work means more money, now and in the future.

The price you were quoted seems reasonable ( though I don't know the size of you're house) enough so why not strip it and spend the $1400.00 and save the headaches you'll run into later doing all the padding.

I'm assuming you have brick mould for your casings on the windows now and if so then I can tell you this, that type of moulding cannot be padded too easily, not without removing if first.

By removing the moulding, any moulding, first you chance cracking it, then you have twice as many nail holes to fill when you put it back.

If it was me ... I'd strip the siding, replace all the moulding that needed to be replaced, and then apply the siding.

One other question not mentioned, I understand your installing siding but are you covering the existing casings with vinyl too or are they staying exposed?

Just remember this ... you get what you pay for.

Uncle Matt · 07-20-2005, 02:54 PM

Paint it all flourescent orange then get drunk.

gf2020 · 07-20-2005, 03:50 PM

Which brand of vinyl shingles are you going with? I have been researching these for a future house project, so I'm just curious.

P.S. I plan on stripping the existing wide clapboard siding, repairing any issues with the sheathing, wrapping with Tyvek and then adding the new vinyl shingles.

MakoMike · 07-20-2005, 04:25 PM

Ha, When I saw the title of this thread I thought Katie was looking for some vocational advice.

BobT · 07-20-2005, 04:59 PM

No brick anywhere. Cedar siding is painted and starting to peel amd splinter. I don't want to paint anymore.......getting to old. They say they pad right over the old casings and vinyl over it. Going with Certineed 7" exposure cedar shingles. No Matt....I'm not going to paint it orange....get drunk sure. Thanks for all the info.......keep it coming.

Jenn · 07-20-2005, 06:03 PM

before we bought our house it was sided (without stripping) ......TRUST ME WHEN I SAY ....STRIP IT!!!!!!

nightfighter · 07-20-2005, 08:09 PM

Strip it, wrap it, install what you will. You're making an investment, so do it right the first time, I wouldn't even consider buying a house that's been clad, as 90% are covering defects or problems. Hope you have a good vapor barrier ovr your insullation if you do go with the vinyl. I am not a fan of it and won't work with it, unless it's to strip it.

Wood is good. (I do love the PVC trim though!)

BigFish · 07-20-2005, 08:14 PM

Nightfighter I have been saying that for years......siding is not as much a savior of having to paint these days as it is a method of covering problems prior to homes going on the market....we are looking at houses and I will not buy one that has been sided!

Those shingles under the siding are going to dry and rot and harbor bugs, carpenter ants and termites will be thriving for years under the siding before you all realize they have been there and long about the time they start poking holes in the interior walls from the outside.....you will only then realize you have the problem! Then its too late!

BobT · 07-21-2005, 04:47 PM

Looks like I'm stripping. The base appears OK and I plan on dying out of this place and don't want ( to old...62) go climbing and painting anymore. After this is done....the house will be 100% complete.....new roof. insulated. triple pane windows, fibergalss doors, new oil burner and water tank. Now I can go fishing, drink beer and watch the garden grow..........in 4 more years.
Thanks guys

BobT · 07-23-2005, 08:40 AM

Last question.....after stripping, should the house be wrapped in TyVek (sp) and then insulboard or is just insulboard OK?

teaser · 07-23-2005, 03:27 PM

Tyvek is not necessary nor recommended as the house won't breathe and you'll start having problems down the line with the house sweating.

By sweating I mean you'll start having moisture on the inside of the windows, the house cannot be made airtight or this and many other problems will show their ugly head.

nightfighter · 07-23-2005, 06:59 PM

From the Dupont website;
One of the most popular and widely known applications of Tyvek® is in the construction industry, where it is used to increase air and water resistance, helping to lower heating and cooling costs in buildings and providing better protection against water and moisture intrusion. The unique qualities of Tyvek® help stop air flow through wall cavities; help hold out bulk water and wind-driven rain; and allow moisture vapor to escape from inside walls. The result is a more comfortable, energy-efficient building with far fewer chances for damage from degradation effects.

I don't think sweating is a problem I've had to deal with. The Tyvek will let moisture out. Attic vents and soffit vents are what let the house breathe. I like it for what it's worth....

BigFish · 07-23-2005, 07:39 PM

Hate to burst your bubble BobT....how old is your oil tank?

BobT · 07-24-2005, 08:00 AM

Oil tank? 44 years. Why? It looks in good shape. What does that have to do with siding? OK..........confuse me somemore.

BigFish · 07-24-2005, 08:07 AM

Just joking with you but I replace oil tanks for a living...(not spamming just joking....and trying to enlighten you to the worst thing that can happen in your home besides a devastating fire) 44 years old....time to replace the tank.....it is years past the average life expectancy for a tank and if it is not a leak causing you the problem it will be no heat calls due to sludge buildup in your tank. Tanks do rot from the inside out....so you really can't tell how bad it is until it lets go....usually it will start out as a drop....but I have seen many instances where it was leaking badly off the bat! Homeowners insurance does not cover an oil spill 999 times out of 1000.......sooooooooo get it replaced for peace of minds sake! Sorry to rain on your parade but I see this on a daily basis.

teaser · 07-24-2005, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfighter

From the Dupont website;
One of the most popular and widely known applications of Tyvek® is in the construction industry, where it is used to increase air and water resistance, helping to lower heating and cooling costs in buildings and providing better protection against water and moisture intrusion. The unique qualities of Tyvek® help stop air flow through wall cavities; help hold out bulk water and wind-driven rain; and allow moisture vapor to escape from inside walls. The result is a more comfortable, energy-efficient building with far fewer chances for damage from degradation effects.

I don't think sweating is a problem I've had to deal with. The Tyvek will let moisture out. Attic vents and soffit vents are what let the house breathe. I like it for what it's worth....

It works fine...alone, but not with insulation over it.

The insulation doesn't let it work properly and allow moisture vapor to escape from inside walls, so there's where one of the problems can occur.

BobT · 07-26-2005, 05:44 PM

OK........stripping and no tyvek and that's the final answer. Thanks for all the info you experts !!!!

gilligan · 07-27-2005, 07:16 PM

im not well liked around here but you have got to put a vapor barrier (tyvek/tar paper) before the siding. if ya dont you WILL get the above mentioned problems.
the people who are SO against vinyl are just plain narrow minded. lets compare the big problem SEAMS. "i dont like the way they seam"
any house sided with wood HAS 3 times as many seams,butt joints.
ill bet any carpenter on this site that i can watertight a house with vinyl :faster and more efficiantly than anyone could possibly do w/ wood.
coming from the same bunch of ("individuals who cry about reel maint.) im thinking you guys are lacking intestinal fortitude as far as home improvements are concerned. so until you REALLY have an argument why dont ya just be quiet

nightfighter · 07-27-2005, 07:58 PM

Gilligan,
With regards to your first comment about not being liked around here, I have no memory of any past transgressions that would you on my chit list.

That said, I took this thread to be one which asked for advice. Your response was pointed towards speed of installation, fewer number of seams, and watertight properties. If you wish to include me in your narrow minded caste, let me state where I'm coming from. I don't like the look or feel of vinyl or aluminum siding. I find a well maintained wood exterior more tasteful and classy. That is simply a matter of my taste. With regards to ease of maintenance, you got me. Number of seams, you got me. Water tight properties, you will have an argument from me on the day after a properly sided wood exterior home is completed. But they must be maintained! Hey, I have a world of respect for a good trim coiler, and siding installer, just as I do for the plasterers, plumbers, and electricians. I work with wood for the most part, That is my schtick, my medium if you will. I leave the magic of the other stuff to those guys.

But as to why I hate to work with it is another matter. 99% of the time I am brought in to remedy a problem that should have been dealt with BEFORE the vinyl or aluminum siding was installed. I have seen my share of butchered siding jobs, just as I have seen butchered carpentry. In my opinion it should be the responsibility of a siding installer to refuse to install before proper repairs are performed. The lack of doing so leads to someone else's problem down the road, subsequent homeowners and contractors for the most part. It is therfore my opinion that SOME installers would gladly install despite problems rather than losing a pay day. AND THERE'S JUST TOO MUCH OF THAT CHIT GOING ON.

Narrow minded you may say, but experience counts for something in my job which demands professionalism. It's got MY name on it. Just my view. I hope you can be open to another point of view.

Squid kids Dad · 07-27-2005, 08:01 PM

Had my house vinyl sided about 10 yrs ago..Stripped it and such..No problems, no painting and not hiding anything...Maintenance free except for an occasional wash...

gilligan · 07-27-2005, 09:32 PM

he asked about vinyl siding and there hasnt been a spec about the material. 7" exposure. ya great, apparently he thinks or has been told they all come this way. oh buy the way certainteed makes "cedar impressions"
ya he can strip it but it aint worth 1400 beans.

Squid kids Dad · 07-27-2005, 10:15 PM

Geez Gilligan...You seem very angry about something..Lighten up will ya

BobT · 07-28-2005, 04:14 PM

Gee guy's. I didn't want to start a dispute. I don't think there is anything wrong under the old shakes. It's tongue and groove. If there is, it will get repaired. I'm very fussy about anything I or anyone else does. I do the job right the first time. I'm just to old to go climbing and painting. Looks like more research has to be done. Now it sounds like I should Tyvek. I know I would if I were to build a house.

Bob Thomas · 07-28-2005, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobT

I'm very fussy about anything I or anyone else does. I do the job right the first time.

That's why I don't have any brothers or sisters!!!

nightfighter · 07-28-2005, 08:45 PM

BobT, I'm going to defer to Teaser here as I have thought this through. I believe he is saying the insullation which is installed OVER the sheathing,if stripped, is what prevents the Tyvek from doing its job ie. letting the moisture escape. He is not refering to the pink fiberglass stuffed between the bays. So his idea makes sense, strip, solid board insullation, siding.

teaser · 07-29-2005, 05:39 PM

You got me Nightfighter! You figured out my madness!

That's what I was trying to convey in my response, I'm just trying to express my point of view having dealt with this on numerous occasions. It was stated before that the problem usually ends up being a contractors nightmare more than a homeowners because the job was not prepared the correct way and too many corners get cut by covering up potential problems just to save a buck, whether intentional or not by the homeowner (to save a buck) it is true that it will come back and bite you in the ass sooner or later.

We as contractors have to try to explain the problem to the customer in the later stage of a problem and explain the high cost of the repair without coming off as a ripoff artist, yes there is those guys out there that prey upon the unsuspecting homeowner and sooner or later they'll get theirs but I know I can sleep at night knowing I gave my customers the best product they can afford and the best job I could possibly do for them.

I think that's what's missing out there now ... PRIDE in one's work, not just the coins. I've always remembered the commercial where the line goes ...

"You can pay me now or you can pay me later", and I tell everyone the same thing ... "You get what you pay for".

Good luck BobT, keep us posted.