Seems quiet this winter. It's sure cold enough to be spending time wrapping. I have been slow compared to previous years. Finished a rewrap of a Kennedy/Fisher 10' HD, GSB1321M, Allstar 967 and built a new 1201L for a good friend.
The K/F needed to go on a diet 18oz. Full strip, concept SV guides 14.2oz.
GSB need new butt assembly , guide repair and recoating
GSB1201L K frame alconite, marbling butt wrap, X wrap shrink wrap.
Allstar rewrap smaller SV guides
Starting on 2 Vapor Trails: 11' 1 piece. K frame concepts.
Yesterday I was out test casting a GSB1081L built for a VS150/30# braid using KLH guides (20H-10H-8m-8KT runners) and a rapid choke concept. The collector is 30" out from the stem, the choke 0.45 x remaining distance to the tip.
The VS was so stiff I could barely turn the reel handle in the cold. The rod cast well and the guides weigh nothing. I did not try to tweek things (didn't appear to need it) nor did I test it directly against other layouts but my sense was the rod performed well and the line flow was near silent so I'll likely just go with it.
These KLH guides are game changers I suspect. Hard to know how such high single foots will hold up in the field (I'll bet they are fine), but they allow you to build such a light and responsive rod for such low cost (relative the the titanium low riders you needed in the past) that you should certainly consider trying them before building a rod with standard KW guides at this point. The performance upgrade with the KLH's and earlier chokepoint is just too impressive to discount.
I've no need for another 11 ft rod, but the lightness of the rod I cast yesterday has me jonesing to try them on something full sized.
Billy, before you wrap a vapor trail get a KLH25, KLH 12, KLM8 (cheap $) throw them on the rod (anglersresource GPS can give you an estimate for the collector location) and see what you think.
I just fooled with taping some on a built 11 ft rod I have down cellar. Looks to me that for a ZB25 you could try the 25KLH at 33.5" from the stem, the 12LH 13.25" out, the 8KLM 9.75", the 8KB choke 8.75" out and go from there. Tweak the positions to get a concentric run then slide the 4 guides in and out a bit as a set to see how the rod performs. The 25 looks large and close to me (I am now use to using LC20 or 16M as collectors pretty far out) and the 25-12 drop a bit much (but FUJI says it is fine), but I'll bet it casts as well as anything else you can put on the rod and probably will cut your tip weight in half. I've not tried it yet, however, since I don't have an unbuilt 11 ft blank laying around.
The KW guides seem just too big and too heavy, or too big and too low to do things right for braid.
Last edited by numbskull; 02-09-2014 at 09:59 AM..
George I was considering the KLH for myself. The V/T are for 2 young rock crawlers and they requested K frames. I too have reservation on K frames for the expansive footprint and weight. personally I rather use SV's if double foots are called for. With all the hype from rod companies and K frames it's a wonder the first words from potential customers begins with "K"!! I haven't tried the closer choke point but would love to understand the performance enhancements. This would be a better guide placement for concept layouts for short rods, 7-9'. Once you locate a choke point per X27 formula or Anglers Resource reccommendations, you have minimal distance for runners. What's your thoughts?
I just finished a custom century s1 stealth 10' with 6" off the tip. I did the butt/reel seat with Paco grips using that rubber free cork you gave me billy with a Fuji ergo seat.
I used LC guides, rod is built for a vs 150.
The action is so much better with 6" off the tip, fast recovery and more hook setting power.
I did the layout but had CMS do the wraps and crosswraps in rasta colors. They did an amAzing job.
I just don't have the time to wrap my own stuff with the new restaurant open.
I'll post some pics
I also had them do crosswraps on a bunch of my rods, they only charge $25-30 for a 10" cross wrap with 4 colors. A deal in my book
My next build is to redo the century spod rod. It's 12' now and I never use it.
Going to make it 11'4" or 11', have to play around with it.
I used 1 k frame, then LC guides to single foot bm guides, the rod is great it just never gets used, and they changed the blank so it's going under the knife Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I just finished a custom century s1 stealth 10' with 6" off the tip. I did the butt/reel seat with Paco grips using that rubber free cork you gave me billy with a Fuji ergo seat.
I used LC guides, rod is built for a vs 150.
The action is so much better with 6" off the tip, fast recovery and more hook setting power.
I did the layout but had CMS do the wraps and crosswraps in rasta colors. They did an amAzing job.
I just don't have the time to wrap my own stuff with the new restaurant open.
I'll post some pics
I also had them do crosswraps on a bunch of my rods, they only charge $25-30 for a 10" cross wrap with 4 colors. A deal in my book
My next build is to redo the century spod rod. It's 12' now and I never use it.
Going to make it 11'4" or 11', have to play around with it.
I used 1 k frame, then LC guides to single foot bm guides, the rod is great it just never gets used, and they changed the blank so it's going under the knife Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Hi Chris
They tell me I just missed you the other day at CMS,, helped me pick out a couple on inexpensive 7 footers for the grandkids to build on. Looking at a couple of penn battle 4000 to go with them. Hopefully that will be plenty good for starters. Thanks again for the wrapper, hope to get it going soon.
George I was considering the KLH for myself. ………. I haven't tried the closer choke point but would love to understand the performance enhancements. This would be a better guide placement for concept layouts for short rods, 7-9'. Once you locate a choke point per X27 formula or Anglers Resource reccommendations, you have minimal distance for runners. What's your thoughts?
The reel angle, choke point bit never made much sense to me since the line goes through the collector from all sorts of crazy angles. I quit on NGC formulas 4-5 years ago and my rods cast just as well as when setup by formula. They are now building reels (like the saragossa) with zero angle stems so obviously a choke point calculation is useless for them.
I think the critical issue is the position, height, and ring size of the collector guide. Once you have this, the angle from the reel spindle through the collector sets your choke point. Angler's Resource suggests measuring the distance from the collector to the tip and multiplying by 0.45 then trying your choke there. It seems to come out pretty close to the way I set up rods using LC collector and transition guides previously.
Once you hit that collector the line ought to be tamed pretty quickly and channeled down to the blank and on out. There is always an angle at the choke where the line finishes its transition into the blank and starts out the runners. The further out the choke the less the angle, but practically speaking with braid this angle doesn't cost you any noticeable distance so it makes sense to pull your choke in some and lighten your tip.
George this 11' layout w/ZB22 has approx 40" to tip from choke. I spaced 5 runners from choke but but there well over 6". Haven't test cast for obvious reasons yet but do you think an extra runner is neccessary? I did the 45% from collector and the 27X method was within 2" of the Anglers Resource formula of 45%. staic test this rod and liked the set up but the concern is the runner spacing and quantity.
George this 11' layout w/ZB22 has approx 40" to tip from choke. I spaced 5 runners from choke but but there well over 6". Haven't test cast for obvious reasons yet but do you think an extra runner is neccessary? I did the 45% from collector and the 27X method was within 2" of the Anglers Resource formula of 45%. staic test this rod and liked the set up but the concern is the runner spacing and quantity.
I suspect the runners will be fine. I have, however, had some issues with tip wraps using small runners and MNST tips that occur as the rod is taken back for a cast (not an overloop during the cast as best I can tell). I see some builders adding an "assist" guide only 4cm from the tip to counter this and am thinking about trying it.
I have many questions on concept layouts being that many times the design doesn't set up the way it's intent was designed. Here in one hand they "rule" was runners 4-6" apart. 3 transition guides and a choke guide established by reel spool and shaft angle. As I say , works on an engineer's paper but put into the real world, it doesn't comply to it. So with all this do you not set up a concept with a small spool reel on a long rod the designed way a set up the rod for the best perfomance in ones theory? The other thing is the frame heights of K frames don't allow a perfect line running from the collector to the choke most of the times. The 16 if position on the line is extremely close to the choke. I have been compensating the distance through my static load test on any of the builds I have done. Only exception was my own 11'. Adding a single foot K 16 to the transition guides in which the line was spot on to the #10K choke. Sorry for the winded comment. Just spouting out my frustrations with this "concept".
I had a 10' CTS 1008 with the reel seat over 30" from the butt. I fished it all last season and it was manageable but uncomfortable at times. Decided to move the seat this winter and redo the grip to a Paco grip. Got the reel seat epoxied last night and cut the shrink tonight. Will have the cork this weekend and can spiral the blank.
The other is an actual build. Glb1081mh blank I bought and couldn't sell as a blank so I decided to build it for a fellow CSA member. The pic is intentionally covering up some items I'd like to keep to myself until I deliver the rod. Same grip system and waiting for the cork on this one.
Guide layout is going to be experimental as the buyer has agreed to do some test casting before we wrap the guides. I am planning on using an LC collector and K guides after. I'm liking the potential of that setup and I'll post some results once it hits the water.
Ian, was 30" from rear of seat?Iff so, wow, fit for a gorilla!! If you needed cork I have plenty. Nice blank.108glb. My favorite 9' for LIS & Rivers.
Yeah Billy, wasn't the best configuration. Was my first time ever pulling a reel seat and grip off all the way to the butt wrap. The process of heating and peeling epoxy sucked but it finally worked for me. I do a lot of things during the winter to satisfy my fishing fix, but nothing gets my hopes up for the spring like building a rod. I'm really looking forward to being able to post some completed pics in a couple weeks. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Hi Chris
They tell me I just missed you the other day at CMS,, helped me pick out a couple on inexpensive 7 footers for the grandkids to build on. Looking at a couple of penn battle 4000 to go with them. Hopefully that will be plenty good for starters. Thanks again for the wrapper, hope to get it going soon.
Now that school is out they had time to finish their first build,,,
Next week use the heck out of it
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