Proposed new gas tax

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Guess again.

Mike, do you do legal work for the state like drug court, court appointed counsel, etc....?

[RIJIMMY]

Clogston, how about eliminating the pensions for state workers? Most public companies have. Right there , you'd save enough to fund the improvements.

[Swimmer]

Find all the no-show jobs, zero out the line item that pays them.

Let Deval fire some/all of the 1900 people/friends he personally put on the payroll since he was elected.

Take all the state issued cars back from people that drive around in them.

Don't hire any firm thats performs so poorly it hires a lobbyist/consultant (ex state rep./senator) to get back in the good graces of state government.

And for all of us to actually not re-elect these nitwits every four years. And in that regard it is our fault that these idiots are the way they are. They become more and more emboldened every time they are elected, because they get up in the morning and when looking in the mirror they say, " hey it must be what they want they voted for me"!

Its always more, more, more. Gimee, gimee, gimee. Somebody has to start saying no more.

Beyond that, "let the revolution begin"!

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Find all the no-show jobs, zero out the line item that pays them.

Let Deval fire some/all of the 1900 people/friends he personally put on the payroll since he was elected.

Take all the state issued cars back from people that drive around in them.

Don't hire any firm thats performs so poorly it hires a lobbyist/consultant (ex state rep./senator) to get back in the good graces of state government.

And for all of us to actually not re-elect these nitwits every four years. And in that regard it is our fault that these idiots are the way they are. They become more and more emboldened every time they are elected, because they get up in the morning and when looking in the mirror they say, " hey it must be what they want they voted for me"!

Its always more, more, more. Gimee, gimee, gimee. Somebody has to start saying no more.

Beyond that, "let the revolution begin"!

YEP

fix the problems, stop the wasteful spending don't tax us more. I can't understand why people vote for polititions that want to spend more money and make more government
People don't build big businesses by allowing wasteful spending, they budget and hold to it, why can't it be done with government? no accountability

[The Dad Fisherman]

Yeah, I know its a slippery slope.....but the whole reason they are now talking gas tax is because this is what they originally wanted to do.....raise tolls and fares to pay for it....but all the people that actually use it Pissed and Moaned about it.......So now we ALL get to pay for it.

I guess That friggin Big Dig just rubs me the wrong way.....

Originally Posted by Bronko

You are on a slippery slope TDF. Is it fair for me to have tax dollars go to public schools if I don't intend on sending my children to them? Is it fair that my tax dollars go to social programs that I not only don't believe in, but am disgusted by? Is it fair some of my tax dollars go to a monument or park in another corner of the state? The bottom line is these pigs want ALL your money and they want you to STFU. Even in the arguably the worst economic crisis in our countries history, these scumbags are lined up with their hands out trying to get some table scraps for their pet projects and special interests. It is sickening.

[BigFish]

Swimmer For Governor!

[FishermanTim]

[QUOTE=.....The bottom line is these pigs want ALL your money and they want you to STFU. Even in the arguably the worst economic crisis in our countries history, these scumbags are lined up with their hands out trying to get some table scraps for their pet projects and special interests. It is sickening.[/QUOTE]

Lined up with their hands out, looking for SCRAPS????
It's more like their treating each and every budget as an "All you can eat" buffet, and they are using all the dinner plates and left us the saucer from a kids tea set.

Have you noticed that there has not been any mention at all about the state cutting back on any of their perks? Why don't they cut out the crap on capital hill FIRST, and then come back to us when they get their heads out of their a$$es, and then maybe we'll believe in them again. Until that time, they are nothing but worthless piles of bullsh**, and should be treated as such!

Added note****
The only mention was that the mayor and his staff were going to take a 3% pay cut. Sounds pawltry, but it shows they've got the balls to do something positive in these hard times.

[Clogston29]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Clogston, how about eliminating the pensions for state workers? Most public companies have. Right there , you'd save enough to fund the improvements.

your right about that, there is money to be saved there. problem is, if you cut the pensions of state transportation officials, you'll have to raise their salaries or they will just leave and work in the private sector. at least for engineers, state employees are underpaid in terms of annual salary. their other "perks" like pension, more vacation time, more holidays, etc. make up for that fact. last time i was looking around, private jobs were more than 10% higher. they need to find a balance. I don't know where that balance is and what will end up costing the state more in the long run.

the unions for state workers are another issue. some laborers are making obscene salaries just because they have been at (name your state transportation agency) for X years.

as far as people who don't commute into boston not wanting to pay for it, i think you just need to take a more "global" (or statewide) view. the state infrastructure on the whole is %$%$%$%$ed, not just in boston. and the state manages almost all roads and bridges in the state. the money raised from a gas tax will essentially get distributed proportionally to where/who the money comes from because the state's infrastructure is distributed proportionally to the commuting population. essentially, its all one fund. for example, when all those piece of crap bridges in groveland and haverhill spanning the merrimack get repaired/replaced/inspected, the money will come from the statewide transportation budget, not a collection of people in those towns.

there are lots of areas of state government that need to be made more efficient (i'm certainly not arguing that). I just feel that if the state needs money to fund infrastructure repairs and can provide backup to the value that they want to tax, somebody needs to pay for those repairs, that a gas tax IMO is a fair way to distribute the burden.

[The Dad Fisherman]

I don't have a problem with paying the tax to improve the roads and bridges, the money does have to come from somewhere, but 1/2 that tax is going to the MBTA and other transit authorities.

"The plan calls for the state's Highway Division to receive $325 million, or 12.5 cents, of the added 27 cents-per-gallon gas tax. The MBTA would receive $286 million, or 11 cents, while the regional transit authorities would receive $39 million, or 1.5 cents."

If the "T" needs money....raise the fares for the people that use it.....and If I decide to use it I will pay for it.


and how about this tidbit on top of it......now you will be taxed on how much you travel....

"Tolls would be removed west of Route 128 by the end of next year. Tolls within Route 128, from Weston to Boston, would come down as the state shifts to a program of tracking -- and charging -- all drivers based on the miles they travel.

Trips would be measured by a chip installed in a vehicle inspection sticker as soon as 2014"

[sokinwet]

"how about eliminating the pensions for state workers? Most public companies have. Right there , you'd save enough to fund the improvements."

Yea Jimmy...and why don't we just eliminate your social security benefits too....been paying in for your whole career. I don't give a damn...

[BigFish]

Don't we already pay excise tax that goes to upkeep roads and such?? What a load of crap!

[Clogston29]

the T is 8 billion in dept. they can't raise fares and make that. they are the most poorly run and most in debt transportation department in the country. believe me, i'm not sticking up for them.

public transportation is a necessary evil IMO. I don't think that there is a self sustaining bus/rail authority in the country. all rely on tax subsidaries to be able to provide a service at a cost that keeps people using the service. they benefit the transporation system as a whole by reducing traffic demands (which would raise infrastructure costs) and are environmentally friendly.

rumors are that they are increasing their fares on the order of 40-50% this year anyway. and they already doubled parking rates. trust me, you'll see the results of that in increased traffic.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

"how about eliminating the pensions for state workers? Most public companies have. Right there , you'd save enough to fund the improvements."

Yea Jimmy...and why don't we just eliminate your social security benefits too....been paying in for your whole career. I don't give a damn...

I'm not trying to be flip here, but do state employees pay into and receive social security benefits as well as their pensions?

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Mike, do you do legal work for the state like drug court, court appointed counsel, etc....?

No, I'm employed full time by the state.

Patrick wants to cut my agency by 13% for FY 2010. And I currently pay 25% of my monthly health insurance costs.

I don't know of too many--if any--rank and file state employees who won't be affected by budget cuts. They'll either be layoffs or unpaid furloughs, and everyone will have to kick in more for their health benefits. That state workers won't also suffer the same effects Larry mentioned is a fallacy---unless your talking about the Hackarama which just got a 5.5% increase in their base salary.

The only agency that I'm aware of so far that hasn't been asked for cuts is the state Corrections Department. Even the DAs offices across the state are facing an 8% cut.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by fishbones

I'm not trying to be flip here, but do state employees pay into and receive social security benefits as well as their pensions?

No, we do not pay into SS. We can receive SS retirement benefits only if we paid into SS from earlier employment. We have our own pension fund, and we have to work 10 years to vest.

After 20 years the pension benefit is 80% of your last year's salary---fully taxable.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

"how about eliminating the pensions for state workers? Most public companies have. Right there , you'd save enough to fund the improvements."

Yea Jimmy...and why don't we just eliminate your social security benefits too....been paying in for your whole career. I don't give a damn...

who pays in to a pension? Its funded by the government, aka, taxpayers, aka me and you. The time needs to come soon where the public employees need to have the same benfits as those that pay their salaries. Many firms in the public sector are eliminating 401k match, and other perks to save money. The state may need to do that to, is that such a radical idea?
And by the way, my social security has been eliminated.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

And by the way, my social security has been eliminated.

Really??--under what exemption from paying into it do you and/or your employer fall?

Wages not subject to tax

Workers are not required to pay Social Security taxes on wages from certain types of work:[102]

Wages received by certain state or local government workers participating in their employers' alternative retirement system.

Net annual earnings from self-employment of less than $400.

Wages received for service as an election worker, if less than $1,400 a year (in 2008).

Wages received for working as a household employee, if less than $1,600 per year (in 2008).

Wages received by college students working under Federal Work Study programs, graduate students receiving stipends while working as teaching assistants, research assistants, or on fellowships, and most postdoctoral researchers.

Earnings received for serving as a minister (or for similar religious service) if the person has a conscientious objection to public insurance because of personal religious considerations, but only for "qualified services" performed for a religious organization.
Other minor exceptions

[RIJIMMY]

My paying into it has not been eliminated, but any benefit I'll receive from it is gone? I think its pretty well understood that no one under 40 will see a dime of their SS.

[tattoobob]

What we need is an "out of state workers tax" they should pay to work in our state. they should put toll booths at the boarder of every state.
If they are going to benefit by coming to our state for work then they need to pay.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

What we need is an "out of state workers tax" they should pay to work in our state. they should put toll booths at the boarder of every state.
If they are going to benefit by coming to our state for work then they need to pay.

They do pay Bob, I work in RI, live in MA and 90% of my taxes go to RI.
MA gets a small percentage of my tax. I am sure the same applies to those that work in MA and live outside the state.

[sokinwet]

Jimmy -I used to respect your opinions but it's pretty obvious that shooting from the hip is your MO lately (like since the election). Like most of the other anti gov't employee blowhards you have no clue on what the MA state pension system is all about or how it functions. As Mike P. pointed out we don't get SS benefits if we didn't pay "enough" into it from a previous job and the 10 yr. vesting requirement is correct ; but it's a little different than what he stated. Here it is in a nutshell in case you might actually want to know before your next rant. There are different classifications for employees and these classifications determine at what age you can retire. Here's the formula for "regular" gov. employees: (police and fire have different age of retirement criteria) length of service x age multiplier x avg. of three highest earning years. There is no 20 or 30 yrs. and out provision. If you retire @ 55 your multiplier is .015..increases to .016 at 56 and goes to a max. of .025 at 65. Currently most state and municipal employees pay 9% of salary into the PENSION FUND; some like me pay at the level at the time they entered the system. I've been working for municipal gov. for 32 yrs. so I pay 7%. Max. pension is 80% of your annual salary. You don't pay a friggin thing towards my retirement it comes from the Pension fund...and as a matter a fact because I did pay into SS but don't have enough quarters to get any SS upon retirement I hope you don't get any...because just like you I don't like the idea of my $$ going to pay for someone else...hope your 401k doesn't go belly up.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

Jimmy -I used to respect your opinions but it's pretty obvious that shooting from the hip is your MO lately (like since the election). Like most of the other anti gov't employee blowhards you have no clue on what the MA state pension system is all about or how it functions. As Mike P. pointed out we don't get SS benefits if we didn't pay "enough" into it from a previous job and the 10 yr. vesting requirement is correct ; but it's a little different than what he stated. Here it is in a nutshell in case you might actually want to know before your next rant. There are different classifications for employees and these classifications determine at what age you can retire. Here's the formula for "regular" gov. employees: (police and fire have different age of retirement criteria) length of service x age multiplier x avg. of three highest earning years. There is no 20 or 30 yrs. and out provision. If you retire @ 55 your multiplier is .015..increases to .016 at 56 and goes to a max. of .025 at 65. Currently most state and municipal employees pay 9% of salary into the PENSION FUND; some like me pay at the level at the time they entered the system. I've been working for municipal gov. for 32 yrs. so I pay 7%. Max. pension is 80% of your annual salary. You don't pay a friggin thing towards my retirement it comes from the Pension fund...and as a matter a fact because I did pay into SS but don't have enough quarters to get any SS upon retirement I hope you don't get any...because just like you I don't like the idea of my $$ going to pay for someone else...hope your 401k doesn't go belly up.

That is funny, because I have been in the Pension industry for close to 15 years and I have presented at least a dozen times to many different facets of the MA state pensions. So like it or not, you've paid blowhards like me to get in front of your boards to discuss investments that they have YOUR money in. funny huh?
So just curious, you pay in 7% and you're guaranteed 80% of your salary when you retire. Thats quite an investment! Do you think all that money comes from magical money fairies? What if the pension fun tanks (btw, its tanked! they invest it in stocks, bonds etc), do you still get your 80%? Yes! The money fairies (also known as taxpayers) pay it for you! Your pension is FUNDED and you also pay into it.
Dont get me wrong, I would give my left nut (literally) to pay 7% of my salary and have 80% when I retire. But unfortunaley I and most other workers no longer have that benefit and never will. So as states need to cut money, why not make state workers EQUAL to other industries? You dont lose your $, the state cashes you out, as if you retired today, and then sets up a 401k or other plan which employees fund? I agree it sucks, but it also sucks that people taxpayers fund get better benefits than themselves.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Many firms in the public sector are eliminating 401k match, and other perks to save money.

God bless working for a privately owned 100% matching company.

[RIJIMMY]

I've had lunch with Stan a few times....

http://www.projo.com/massachusetts/c...0.38fdbdf.html

And as far as this "shoot from the hip" crap lately about my posting. I have been BATTERED for years out here defending my beliefs and sometimes unfortunaley defending our previous president. Now its YOUR turn. I promise, I will use FACTS when I shoot from the hip. Unlike most of the BS spouted by liberals.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

They do pay Bob, I work in RI, live in MA and 90% of my taxes go to RI.
MA gets a small percentage of my tax. I am sure the same applies to those that work in MA and live outside the state.

I'm in the same boat as you, Jimmy. But I wouldn't say that Mass gets a "small amount of my tax". Mass gets it's share and RI gets its share. It's called a "piggy back" or reciprocal tax. I have payroll take out extra each week so I don't get killed at tax time. I learned the hard way a couple of years ago. I guess if Mass raises the gas tax, I'll buy all of my gas in RI and feel like I'm making out a little.

[sokinwet]

Jimmy -- Since I have a vested interest I'm quite aware of the losses to the fund, its current value and the ramifications of unfunded pension liabilities. I'm also aware that the pension fund has earned well above the norm until the current plunge. Despite what you say the pension fund is not currently using "taxpayers" money to pay current pensioners. Could there be a problem in the future...sure..there could also be a return to the 15% earnings of "06". I'm willing to bet "Stan & Tim" are correct in their assumptions about the long term health of the system. Maybe you can ask Stan next time you "do lunch". So I guess I'm supposed to cash out my 32 yrs. of investment in the pension system, forget about any interest my money has earned and just return that money to Joe taxpayer...and of course you'll do the same with any investment earnings you have just to be fair?
Perhaps you should give your left nut..or maybe you should have considered working for the public sector, for far less than what you could have earned in the private sector, because the retirement plan provided a decent living that would allow you to retire and fish & hunt before you're too old to enjoy it.
PS Don't remember too much "battering" of republicans here until recently...just Spence taking it on the chin day in and day out.
And ...
"I will use FACTS when I shoot from the hip. Unlike most of the BS spouted by liberals." What hip was that shot from?

[spence]

A few comments...

If pension funds are Federally insured then they are in trouble. So many big company pensions have gone under that the system to protect them is nearly broke.

I only have a small pension with a former employer, and nearly all of my 401K, which is the bulk of my retirement savings has been seriously beaten down in the past 6 months. All things considered I think I'm in good shape though.

I don't believe SS is dead and I do expect to get benefits when I retire, and that's a few decades off mind you. I'm well aware of the issues but there's time to correct.

Not sure what Sokinwet means by "taking it on the chin"...like a boxing match or UFC match, most blows don't really land and don't score points. In fact, I've yet to see someone really connect

-spence

[fishbones]

Hey Spence,
I think he means that you are a lonely liberal being picked on by all of us mean conservatives. But you usually hold your own. You also do a pretty good job of defending yourself from all of us nasty, Fox news watching evil doers.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

They do pay Bob, I work in RI, live in MA and 90% of my taxes go to RI.
MA gets a small percentage of my tax. I am sure the same applies to those that work in MA and live outside the state.

So you pay virtually nothing here but think I shouldn't get a pension.

Up yours.

[Clogston29]

if you work in ma, you pay ma income tax

if you live in ma but work in another state, you pay ma the difference between ma tax and the other state's tax if that states tax is less tha ma. so if you live in ma and work in nh (no income tax) you pay full ma income tax on the income you earn in nh.