Urban/Suburban/Rural breakdown of 1988-2008 election

[TheSpecialist]

I challenge anyone to show me a welfare mother driving a BMW! This is just the same old tired arguement from those who feel that any type of social safety net is their $$ being spent for "lowlifes". Are there crooks? Sure...just like on Wall Street. You steal; you should be in jail.

11/02/2006 03:13 PM ID: 58062 Permalink
Judge Allows Convicted Welfare Fraud to Keep Mercedes

Massachusetts: A judge has allowed a woman convicted of welfare fraud to keep a Mercedes SUV. The vehicle is leased and the dealership refused to cancel the lease unless she paid several thousand dollars in fees.

The judge ruled that forcing the woman to return the vehicle and pay the fees would make it less likely that she would make restitution for her criminal actions.

The woman, Jennifer Stevanovich, was convicted after she stole $14,422 worth of lingerie from Victoria's Secret and sold it on eBay. She is paying that debt off at $100 per month.


Ask and you shall receive. If you think there aren't others like her out there then you should get your head out of the sand. In my line of work we are routinely in "ghettos" and many of these people drive nicer cars, better a/v equipment etc than the average person.

Here is another more detailed story about her:

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2006/...ecret-no-m.php


Jennifer's Secret a secret no more
Posted by Jay Tea
Published: May 25, 2006 - 2:00 PM
Back in the 80's, Ronald Reagan used to tell the apocryphal story of the "welfare queens" who would pull up in Cadillacs to collect their monthly checks. Once more, we find that the Gipper was a true visionary, because in Andover, Massachusetts, that is pretty much what was happening.

According to police reports, Jennifer Stevanovich was living the high life. She banked over $280,000 over five years, bought a Range Rover, and leased a Mercedes SUV while living in a gated community in Andover.

At the same time, she reported her income as maybe a few thousand a year, far less than she needed to support herself and her two children. Accordingly, the state gave her over the same time frame $117,000 in "assistance."

One can't blame her for underreporting her income -- she allegedly made all that money shoplifting. She would steal lingerie from Victoria's Secret and other places, carrying it out in foil-lined bags to defeat security measures, and sell it on EBay and through other outlets.

She was finally busted not by state officials, but by officials of Victoria's Secret's parent company, who noticed that one seller was offering a LOT of their merchandise for sale. They set up a "sting" operation, then turned the information to police.

Well, this week Ms. Stevanovich was brought to justice. And the sentence? Restitution and 15 years probation. No jail time, said Judge Peter Agnes, who said the state has already spent enough money on her.

I'm not a Massachusetts resident (thank god), but if I were, I'd disagree with the judge. I would consider locking her up for a good, long time money well spent.

[sokinwet]

Specialist - "Convicted Welfare Fraud" As I said, crooks should go to jail. To compare this woman with all families on public assistance is just like saying all cops are crooked because 1 was on the take, etc. Besides...that was a Mercedes not a Beemer!

And the "visionary" Regan..you mean the champion of trickle down economics...you know where a rising tide floats all boats...those boats of course being captained by Capt. Enron, Capt. Bernie M., and Admiral W. Street? I don't know about you but I'm doing a lot of bailing in my boat these days! :-(

RIJim - This one's for you! I respect your opinions because you (usually) offer a thoughtful arguement for your points...don't usually agree..but respect. (besides us geetar players have to hang together!) But...I can't believe that you think that all working citizens of the good ole USA are not entitled to decent housing, an equal education for their kids and quality medical care just because they have a lower income. I guess you might want to tell them they can "all eat cake"!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

"How could they be? I'm not saying there probably aren't some extreme cases - inheritance, gift, contest winnings - but how can someone who's supposedly poor even afford to pay the excise tax on the vehicle?"

I challenge anyone to show me a welfare mother driving a BMW!

I've seen it while working as an EMT in Hartford. State Health, no job, yet the unemployed wife drove their BMW to the hospital behind us. I've been in other homes, same situation with a big screen TV in the living room.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

"How could they be? I'm not saying there probably aren't some extreme cases - inheritance, gift, contest winnings - but how can someone who's supposedly poor even afford to pay the excise tax on the vehicle?"

That's very naive. It happens in your own town for cryin out loud. People who earn money from dealing drugs, shoplifting and selling goods on ebay, selling fraudulent citizenship documents, etc... are not reporting wages, yet they have plenty of income in many cases. These people can still collect welfare or food stamps. It's more widespread than you would like to believe. Talk to any police officer in a big city and they'll explain things to you.

[sokinwet]

1st guys.. that's not my quote...that's me quoting another post.
Naive?? As I said..30 yrs working as a program director in housing & community development just might give me a few insights into this issue that go a little deeper than what you're hearing on FOX news or reading in the Herald. I know I probably won't change your "someone told me so" perceptions that everyone on public assistance is dealing drugs, etc. but "for crying out loud" before you fall too deep into the all pol's & cops are crooks, all gov. workers are lazy, teachers got it easy, why should I pay taxes..I get nothing for it, well of uninformed public opinion, take a more in depth look at the actual situation. And Fishbone...if I knew someone was a drug dealing, thieving scum bag in my neighborhood I'd drop a dime...not BS about it on a fishing forum.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

1st guys.. that's not my quote...that's me quoting another post.
Naive?? As I said..30 yrs working as a program director in housing & community development just might give me a few insights into this issue that go a little deeper than what you're hearing on FOX news or reading in the Herald.

I certainly wouldn't call you Naive, I don't think you were referring to me though. However, I've been in these people's homes and seen it first hand. And as someone stated above, I'm sure just about any working city PD or Fire/EMS can attest to the same thing.

[sokinwet]

JD - I don't doubt that you do; all it takes is plastic, a Walmart..and there's your TV; but my experience has been different. I monitor 45 assisted rental properties in a south shore community on an annual basis for housing code and tenant income and asset compliance. Most of these folks live a modest lifestyle. Believe me when I tell you that the review process and determination of eligibility for these programs is very thorough. Do people slip through..of course..hopefully not on my watch I have caught people trying to scam the system and 99% of those people have been middle income suburban homeowners not assisted renters. In addition, we have found that properties not on public transportation tend to be occupied more by moderate income familes than low income, with the primary reason being that they haven't saved up enough for the BMW ;-) yet and have to rely on the train.
The original subject of this thread urban/sub/rural elec. breakdown when viewed from a public policy perspective is an interesting study. MA currently has a 10% goal of affordable housing in every community. Communities with less are subject to override of existing zoning for affordable developments under Chpt. 40B "anti snob zoning" legislation.(and to pre-empt any response..yes I agree it's a developer abused program!) One of the idea's behind this is to provide housing for "local" lower income persons and also to eliminate concentration of lower income housing and families in urban areas. However, in the past 8 years federal housing policy has been to reduce rental assistance and promote homeownership. (we all know what a trainwreck this has caused). This has been a factor in suburban property values and rents going through the ceiling, restricting many lower income families to urban areas. If the republican admin. promotes housing & social policies that don't favor me am I going to vote for them or the Dem's?

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

1st guys.. that's not my quote...that's me quoting another post.
Naive?? As I said..30 yrs working as a program director in housing & community development just might give me a few insights into this issue that go a little deeper than what you're hearing on FOX news or reading in the Herald. I know I probably won't change your "someone told me so" perceptions that everyone on public assistance is dealing drugs, etc. but "for crying out loud" before you fall too deep into the all pol's & cops are crooks, all gov. workers are lazy, teachers got it easy, why should I pay taxes..I get nothing for it, well of uninformed public opinion, take a more in depth look at the actual situation. And Fishbone...if I knew someone was a drug dealing, thieving scum bag in my neighborhood I'd drop a dime...not BS about it on a fishing forum.

Sorry Sokinwet, but I don't take my information from any television or newspaper reports. I get it from seeing it happen and from people who work as public servants. As for dropping a dime on a drug dealer who's cheating the system, it's not that easy. Tell a welfare case worker that one of their clients is dealing drugs and driving a BMW and they'll shrug their shoulders. Someone making that kind of money isn't going to risk their lives over their job.

[sokinwet]

Fishbones - The Fox news comment was not aimed directly at you (I try not to take "too many" personal shots but sometimes it might read that way)...just a collective shot a those who form opinion's based on somewhat slanted and very often fact challenged coverage. As I said, I am one of those public servants with "feet on the ground" and my experience has been different than what people are writing here.
I meet once a month as a gov. rep. for a Board that is comprised of most of the homeless and social service providers located from south of Boston to Brockton. You are correct..a very underpaid and unappreciated profession and it certainly isn't their job to fight crime ;but these folks deal with those on the bottom rungs of the ladder everyday and there's not much they don't see and deal with regularly. Funny thing is, on that Board I'm not the most popular guy because many of these folks are zealots for their cause and being a bass slaying, bird killin, gun toting, guitar pickin type I'm perceived as somewhat right of redneck! Guess it all just depends on who you run with! Sorry if I stepped on any toes, not my intention...it's off to self excile in the Muzik and Grumpy ole Farts forums!

[likwid]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

I'm not a Massachusetts resident (thank god), but if I were, I'd disagree with the judge. I would consider locking her up for a good, long time money well spent.

Just like all those potheads should be locked away? Waste of taxpayer's money.

I'll put money on her parole requiring her to be escorted to shop anywhere now along with the ankle collar.